Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[rightwinger]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

Again, you show you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

"Waste" isn't necessarily inefficient. Sometimes you have to bake in "waste" into your provisioning model. Why? Because in most cases, what you are doing is not stagnant or rote. Your work or business requires you to do things are fluid and always changing. And many times you have to make the best guess about what your resources should be. It's always "efficient" to have more than you need as opposed to not enough.

Because if you have "not enough"? You've failed.

Right. The Post Office is in a business that is "fluid" and "always changing."

Who are you trying to kid?

The post office is much more effective and efficient then either FEDEX or UPS.

The reason it's "losing" money is because conservatives in Congress are trying to kill it:

1. Through funding pensions in a manner no other business or public agency has to do.
2. Having no control over how to price services, so they are kept unusually low.

Sheesh..that was easy.

USPS more efficient than Fedex and UPS----------------------that is one of the all time stupid posts to ever appear on USMB.

Eyeah.

I am sure you use both all the time to mail stuff.

operating and operating efficiently are two very different things. Fedex and UPS do not lose money every quarter, USPS does.

FedEx does not have congress "helping them" by stopping them from shutting down unprofitable offices and routes as well as requiring they fully Front fund their retirement

 

[JoeB131]

Most of them.

Which explains the long wait times at a DMV, as well the United States Post office dropping further and further into debt in comparison to their private sector competitors. Tell us another lie Sallow.

Last time I went to the DMV, they had me in and out in less than 10 minutes.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Redfish said: ↑

So the fix is to give the USPS an unlimited budget? Then lets do away with stamps and make it all free.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Everything FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



Nonsense.

No one is suggesting any such thing.

That the premise of your thread has failed is no reason to become ridiculous.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

So the fix is to give the USPS an unlimited budget? Then lets do away with stamps and make it all free.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Everything FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Actually, the USPS would be perfectly capable of meeting its budget if the GOP Congress hadn't insisted on them front-loading the funding of their pension fund.

Should not the USPS be capable of funding their own retirement plans

Most of them.

Which explains the long wait times at a DMV, as well the United States Post office dropping further and further into debt in comparison to their private sector competitors. Tell us another lie Sallow.

Last time I went to the DMV, they had me in and out in less than 10 minutes.

Took me well over an hour, simply to wait my turn and obtain a transcript to confirm that I had no violations attached to my record when applying for a job. I don't see how that's being efficient.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So the fix is to give the USPS an unlimited budget? Then lets do away with stamps and make it all free.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Everything FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Actually, the USPS would be perfectly capable of meeting its budget if the GOP Congress hadn't insisted on them front-loading the funding of their pension fund.

Should not the USPS be a panel if funding their own retirement plans

Most of them.

Which explains the long wait times at a DMV, as well the United States Post office dropping further and further into debt in comparison to their private sector competitors. Tell us another lie Sallow.

Last time I went to the DMV, they had me in and out in less than 10 minutes.

Took me well over an hour, simply to wait my turn and obtain a transcript to confirm that I had no violations attached to my record when applying for a job. I don't see how that's being efficient.

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

There are things government does well, things that are appropriate for government to address as opposed to the private sector – where the best approach is a pragmatic approach, a blend of both public and private sectors, eschewing blind adherence to black/white, either/or political and economic dogma.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

It's a fallacy to assume that across the board cuts are the answer. In fact, the domestic, non-entitlement side has been subject to such cuts for a decade or more. It hasn't made them more efficient and, because these are across the board cuts, it doesn't get rid of low priority or low (or non) performing programs.

Congress can't bring itself to close weather stations to save money because of pork. It can't close military bases without establishing commissions whose recommendations need super majorities to be overcome.

The problem isn't even military spending. The problem is health care, in the form of Obamacare, Medicare and Medicaid, and ballooning social entitlements (SNAP, etc.) And these are time bombs waiting to go off.

You can eliminate the domestic side and you still won't get to balance. And across the board cuts only make government less efficient and responsive, not more.

 

[Iceweasel]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

 

[JoeB131]

[


Should not the USPS be capable of funding their own retirement plans

Yes, but that wasn't the point. They were more than capable of paying as they went.

[

Took me well over an hour, simply to wait my turn and obtain a transcript to confirm that I had no violations attached to my record when applying for a job. I don't see how that's being efficient.

Why do I get the feeling you probably went in with an attitude of resentment and made many of your own problems. I'm just guessing by your screen-name that the peg you for a nut the minute you walked in the door.

 

[JoeB131]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

that might be different if they would let the guys who run it make a profit and stop the 5 billion dollar payment they have to make every year....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

It's much easier to fire incompetents in the private sector as you know only too well.

its also easier to fire someone for no reason at all ....just sayin....

 

[Care4all]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

 

[Care4all]

Sure the huge corporations can afford to send things via FEDX, I am sure fedx gives them a big discount, but for us individual shop owners that ship small packages....UPS and FEDX are out of reach.

 

[Meathead]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

Hey, if government is willing to subsidize your business, you be a fool not to.

 

[Care4all]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

Hey, if government is willing to subsidize your business, you be a fool not to.

UPS and Fedx can't handle small packages and mail, at a reasonable price.

And the post office IS MAKING MONEY only the damn republicans are making the post office pay in to a retirement fund for employees that arent even hired yet....so that they can make the post office look inefficient...get USPS AND FEDX to pay in to a retirement fund for their employees out 50 years including employees that they haven;t even hired yet and see how profitable and efficient they look like on their books....

 

[Harry Dresden]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

right in the kisser Norton....

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

The Federal government operates very efficiently, that you perceive otherwise is subjective, partisan and wrong.


Indeed, when Federal departments and agencies experience difficulties, it's most often the consequence of budget cuts and staff reductions at the behest of republicans.


Prior to its privatization, for example, the Post Office operated extremely efficiently; which goes to the fact that there are certain services which are more appropriate for the government to address, such as delivering mail to every American regardless where he lives, public assistance and social services programs, National defense, education, and various regulatory responsibilities which have contributed to the success of private businesses and the health and safety of private citizens, including administering healthcare programs.


This ridiculous conservative paradigm of perceiving everything as simply being black or white, either/or, is one of many reasons why rightwing dogma fails, as the best approach is a pragmatic approach, where the private sector addresses that which it does well, and the public sector likewise addresses what it does well – a blend of public and private to the advantage of all the American people.


And one of the most efficient and successful Federal programs has been Medicare, where there already exists a proven process that can be expanded to all Americans, providing all Americans access to affordable healthcare:


“Despite competition and choice in the private insurance system, Medicare spending has grown more slowly than private insurance premiums for comparable coverage for more than 30 years.


From 1970 to 2009, Medicare spending per beneficiary grew by an average of 1 percentage point less each year than comparable private insurance premiums. Between 2000 and 2009, Medicare’s cost advantage was even larger—its spending per beneficiary grew at an average annual rate of 5.1 percent while per-capita premiums for private health insurance plans grew at 7.2 percent, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. […]”



Medicare is still more cost-efficient than private insurance

Prior to its privatization, for example, the Post Office operated extremely efficiently;

the PO has not been privatized you dumbass......even Shoot speeders knows that.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

Hey, if government is willing to subsidize your business, you be a fool not to.

UPS and Fedx can't handle small packages and mail, at a reasonable price.

And the post office IS MAKING MONEY only the damn republicans are making the post office pay in to a retirement fund for employees that arent even hired yet....so that they can make the post office look inefficient...get USPS AND FEDX to pay in to a retirement fund for their employees out 50 years including employees that they haven;t even hired yet and see how profitable and efficient they look like on their books....

Care.....the Democrats are just as responsible for that bill as are the Republicans since 2 of the 4 sponsors were Democrats.....and the Democrats including the President are the ones who are not doing anything about it now......but they talk like they think that bill sucks....

 

[Care4all]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

Hey, if government is willing to subsidize your business, you be a fool not to.

UPS and Fedx can't handle small packages and mail, at a reasonable price.

And the post office IS MAKING MONEY only the damn republicans are making the post office pay in to a retirement fund for employees that arent even hired yet....so that they can make the post office look inefficient...get USPS AND FEDX to pay in to a retirement fund for their employees out 50 years including employees that they haven;t even hired yet and see how profitable and efficient they look like on their books....

Care.....the Democrats are just as responsible for that bill as are the Republicans since 2 of the 4 sponsors were Democrats.....and the Democrats including the President are the ones who are not doing anything about it now......but they talk like they think that bill sucks....

Harry, maybe so...but it is CONGRESS that has to do something about it isn't it, and not the President...it involves appropriations and I believe this is in the US congress's hands.......then of course, if they do pass legislation, then the President better darn well sign it.

 

[Meathead]

Both accounts are anecdotal and irrelevant.

And the notion of 'efficient' is meaningless absent an agreed upon definition.

Moreover, it's a fallacy to attempt to compare public and private sectors, given their different roles, responsibilities, and restraints, just as it's a fallacy to say that 'all' government agencies are 'inefficient.'

In fact it's extremist nonsense.

LOL. Nice try. Most of us live in the real world, been there done that. The fallacy is between your ears, sending packages via USPS and FedEx/UPS are generally not the same in efficiency. Performance rules the private sector, job security rules the public sector. And that IS the fucking point!

No one could afford to send letters at UPS's prices.

And honestly, what is wrong with a little job security. This insanity where we all change jobs every five years isn't really doing us very much good as a society.

I can't even send packages from my shop to customers via UPS!!!!! They are so expensive, it's ridiculous!

Give me the USPS, give me the Postal service over Fedx and UPS any day of the week! And my customers too! they feel the same way.....they don't want to pay UPS and FEDX's astronomical PRICES.....and I don't blame them, not one iota!

Hey, if government is willing to subsidize your business, you be a fool not to.

UPS and Fedx can't handle small packages and mail, at a reasonable price.

And the post office IS MAKING MONEY only the damn republicans are making the post office pay in to a retirement fund for employees that arent even hired yet....so that they can make the post office look inefficient...get USPS AND FEDX to pay in to a retirement fund for their employees out 50 years including employees that they haven;t even hired yet and see how profitable and efficient they look like on their books....

The post office is a dinosaur who's functions can now be easily ad far more efficiently replaced by the private sector. Ponderous and labor intensive government bodies like this have far outlived their usefulness. I give it ten years in its current form regardless of which party is in government.

 

[rightwinger]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

Again, you show you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

"Waste" isn't necessarily inefficient. Sometimes you have to bake in "waste" into your provisioning model. Why? Because in most cases, what you are doing is not stagnant or rote. Your work or business requires you to do things are fluid and always changing. And many times you have to make the best guess about what your resources should be. It's always "efficient" to have more than you need as opposed to not enough.

Because if you have "not enough"? You've failed.

Right. The Post Office is in a business that is "fluid" and "always changing."

Who are you trying to kid?

The post office is much more effective and efficient then either FEDEX or UPS.

The reason it's "losing" money is because conservatives in Congress are trying to kill it:

1. Through funding pensions in a manner no other business or public agency has to do.
2. Having no control over how to price services, so they are kept unusually low.

Sheesh..that was easy.

USPS more efficient than Fedex and UPS----------------------that is one of the all time stupid posts to ever appear on USMB.

Eyeah.

I am sure you use both all the time to mail stuff.

operating and operating efficiently are two very different things. Fedex and UPS do not lose money every quarter, USPS does.

Will either one deliver a letter door to door cross country for 49 cents?