Can Any Rightwinger Give Me A Solid Argument Why Private Industry Instead Of Government Should Run..

[Dana7360]

Because for the most part private industry can run things better and more efficient than the government can. The government is currently 17 trillion in debt and counting I can not think of any company in the private sector that can say the same.

Tell that to the people of California when they deregulated their energy and enron took over their electricity.


Enron Fraud > History of Enron > The Enron Investigation

Enron Chiefs Guilty of Fraud and Conspiracy - New York Times

If private industry is so much better then why do we have to keep bailing their sorry butts out when they destroy their companies?

The Wall Street Bailout Plan, Explained - Question - NYTimes.com

And why do they have to pay millions to settle fraud cases?

FBI — Mortgage Fraud

Bank Of America Facing $864 Million Fine After Mortgage Fraud Verdict

U.S. sues Wells Fargo for mortgage fraud - Oct. 9, 2012

 

[Rikurzhen]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

My state borders Canada. We don't have Canadians coming down here for health care.

In fact all the Canadians I know who live down here, they're married to Americans, keep their citizenship just for that health care. They get duel citizenship for their kids just for that health care.

I've talked to countless Canadians, they would NEVER change to our health care system and don't understand why we tolerate the system we have.

It's a good thing that we don't base policy on your circle of acquaintances (May 5, 2008):

More than 100 Canadian women with high-risk pregnancies have been sent to United States hospitals over the past year – in what a doctors' group attributes to the lack of a national birthing plan.

The problem has peaked, with British Columbia and Ontario each sending a record number of women to U.S. neonatal intensive care units (NICUs). Specifically, 80 B.C. women have been sent to U.S. hospitals since April 1, 2007; in Ontario, 28 have been sent since January of 2007, according to figures from the respective health ministries.

André Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada, said the problem is due to bed closings that took place almost a decade ago, the absence of a national birthing initiative and too few staff.

“Neonatologists are very stretched right now,” Dr. Lalonde said in a telephone interview from Ottawa. “We're so stretched, it's kind of dangerous.”. . . .

The inability for Canada to care for all of its sick and premature babies has caught the attention of renowned pediatrics professor Shoo Lee, who is studying the health outcomes of infants sent abroad, in addition to those who remain here, often under stretched staffing conditions.

“If you have insufficient resources in the province, what does that mean for those kept in the system?” Dr. Lee, director of the Canadian Neonatal Network, said from Edmonton. “Are they being admitted to the NICU only when they are very sick? Are they being pushed out too early to make room for others?”

Philippe Chessex, division head of neonatology for B.C. Women's Hospital & Health Centre, said every effort is made to avoid out-of-province transfers. Even sick babies who aren't sent to the U.S. can still face several moves while at home.

“We're transferring babies across the province, in all directions, to try to find an extra bed for the next potential birth or for any baby already born,” Dr. Chessex said in a telephone interview from Vancouver. “We now have babies who have been transferred up to six times after leaving here before reaching home.”

For parents, the devastating news that their baby is sick due to a malformation, illness or being born prematurely is compounded by the reality that there simply is not a bed available for their infant close to home.

“Whenever a sick baby is born, it's really a disaster for these families because it was unexpected. And it just puts a terrible stress on them,” Dr. Chessex said. “If they are sent out of country at that moment, it is just unbelievable the kind of pressure that they must go under.”

No one knows that better than Jade Pascoe, of Cranbrook, B.C., who went into labour 15 weeks earlier than her due date. She gave birth on March 29, to Nevin James William Moore, who came into this world weighing 1 pound 10 ounces. “They tried to get me somewhere in Canada,” said Ms. Pascoe, 19. “But there was nowhere to send me.” The hospital where she gave birth does not have a NICU. And when no NICU bed could be located in B.C. or Alberta, her son was sent to a hospital in Spokane, located in eastern Washington.
​

A mid-sized city in WA has the spare neonatal capacity that can't be found anywhere in Canada.

Now keep in mind that whatever medical outcomes Canada is reporting exist in a situation where Canada can use spare capacity in the US. What would happen to these babies if there were no spare capacity in the the US?

Also note how they're pushing babies through neonatal units in order to open up room for the next preemie. Discharging the babies is done for administrative reasons rather than because babies are medically cleared.

 

[blackhawk]

Because for the most part private industry can run things better and more efficient than the government can. The government is currently 17 trillion in debt and counting I can not think of any company in the private sector that can say the same.

Tell that to the people of California when they deregulated their energy and enron took over their electricity.


Enron Fraud > History of Enron > The Enron Investigation

Enron Chiefs Guilty of Fraud and Conspiracy - New York Times

If private industry is so much better then why do we have to keep bailing their sorry butts out when they destroy their companies?

The Wall Street Bailout Plan, Explained - Question - NYTimes.com

And why do they have to pay millions to settle fraud cases?

FBI — Mortgage Fraud

Bank Of America Facing $864 Million Fine After Mortgage Fraud Verdict

U.S. sues Wells Fargo for mortgage fraud - Oct. 9, 2012

First California is mainly run by the Democrats my guess is there was some piss poor management there second these companies shouldn't have been bailed out third there will always some companies that cross the line but overall the private sector still has a better record than the federal government,

 

[rawmilkmike]

Left against Right LOL. It's the 1% against the working class. That's the way it's always been. It's foolish to think otherwise. And the 1% are international. They know no border. They know no loyalty.

Dah! dah! The workers must control the means of production, you fucking moron!

Are you suggesting the tail can wag the dog?

Apple is evil for making you buy their products!

Get out in the real world for a few years then we can talk

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you. I sometimes like to imagine a telepathic link between people all over the world and everyone spontaneously refusing to play their game. It's a nice thought isn't?

 

[rawmilkmike]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

My state borders Canada. We don't have Canadians coming down here for health care.

In fact all the Canadians I know who live down here, they're married to Americans, keep their citizenship just for that health care. They get duel citizenship for their kids just for that health care.

I've talked to countless Canadians, they would NEVER change to our health care system and don't understand why we tolerate the system we have.

It's a good thing that we don't base policy on your circle of acquaintances (May 5, 2008):

More than 100 Canadian women with high-risk pregnancies have been sent to United States hospitals over the past year – in what a doctors' group attributes to the lack of a national birthing plan.

The problem has peaked, with British Columbia and Ontario each sending a record number of women to U.S. neonatal intensive care units (NICUs). Specifically, 80 B.C. women have been sent to U.S. hospitals since April 1, 2007; in Ontario, 28 have been sent since January of 2007, according to figures from the respective health ministries.

André Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada, said the problem is due to bed closings that took place almost a decade ago, the absence of a national birthing initiative and too few staff.

“Neonatologists are very stretched right now,” Dr. Lalonde said in a telephone interview from Ottawa. “We're so stretched, it's kind of dangerous.”. . . .

The inability for Canada to care for all of its sick and premature babies has caught the attention of renowned pediatrics professor Shoo Lee, who is studying the health outcomes of infants sent abroad, in addition to those who remain here, often under stretched staffing conditions.

“If you have insufficient resources in the province, what does that mean for those kept in the system?” Dr. Lee, director of the Canadian Neonatal Network, said from Edmonton. “Are they being admitted to the NICU only when they are very sick? Are they being pushed out too early to make room for others?”

Philippe Chessex, division head of neonatology for B.C. Women's Hospital & Health Centre, said every effort is made to avoid out-of-province transfers. Even sick babies who aren't sent to the U.S. can still face several moves while at home.

“We're transferring babies across the province, in all directions, to try to find an extra bed for the next potential birth or for any baby already born,” Dr. Chessex said in a telephone interview from Vancouver. “We now have babies who have been transferred up to six times after leaving here before reaching home.”

For parents, the devastating news that their baby is sick due to a malformation, illness or being born prematurely is compounded by the reality that there simply is not a bed available for their infant close to home.

“Whenever a sick baby is born, it's really a disaster for these families because it was unexpected. And it just puts a terrible stress on them,” Dr. Chessex said. “If they are sent out of country at that moment, it is just unbelievable the kind of pressure that they must go under.”

No one knows that better than Jade Pascoe, of Cranbrook, B.C., who went into labour 15 weeks earlier than her due date. She gave birth on March 29, to Nevin James William Moore, who came into this world weighing 1 pound 10 ounces. “They tried to get me somewhere in Canada,” said Ms. Pascoe, 19. “But there was nowhere to send me.” The hospital where she gave birth does not have a NICU. And when no NICU bed could be located in B.C. or Alberta, her son was sent to a hospital in Spokane, located in eastern Washington.
​

A mid-sized city in WA has the spare neonatal capacity that can't be found anywhere in Canada.

Now keep in mind that whatever medical outcomes Canada is reporting exist in a situation where Canada can use spare capacity in the US. What would happen to these babies if there were no spare capacity in the the US?

Also note how they're pushing babies through neonatal units in order to open up room for the next preemie. Discharging the babies is done for administrative reasons rather than because babies are medically cleared.

The pharmaceutical industry knows no borders.

 

[rawmilkmike]

Because for the most part private industry can run things better and more efficient than the government can. The government is currently 17 trillion in debt and counting I can not think of any company in the private sector that can say the same.

Tell that to the people of California when they deregulated their energy and enron took over their electricity.


Enron Fraud > History of Enron > The Enron Investigation

Enron Chiefs Guilty of Fraud and Conspiracy - New York Times

If private industry is so much better then why do we have to keep bailing their sorry butts out when they destroy their companies?

The Wall Street Bailout Plan, Explained - Question - NYTimes.com

And why do they have to pay millions to settle fraud cases?

FBI — Mortgage Fraud

Bank Of America Facing $864 Million Fine After Mortgage Fraud Verdict

U.S. sues Wells Fargo for mortgage fraud - Oct. 9, 2012

First California is mainly run by the Democrats my guess is there was some piss poor management there second these companies shouldn't have been bailed out third there will always some companies that cross the line but overall the private sector still has a better record than the federal government,

The private sector and the federal government are one in the same. Nixonacare Obamacare what's the difference?

 

[blackhawk]

Because for the most part private industry can run things better and more efficient than the government can. The government is currently 17 trillion in debt and counting I can not think of any company in the private sector that can say the same.

Tell that to the people of California when they deregulated their energy and enron took over their electricity.


Enron Fraud > History of Enron > The Enron Investigation

Enron Chiefs Guilty of Fraud and Conspiracy - New York Times

If private industry is so much better then why do we have to keep bailing their sorry butts out when they destroy their companies?

The Wall Street Bailout Plan, Explained - Question - NYTimes.com

And why do they have to pay millions to settle fraud cases?

FBI — Mortgage Fraud

Bank Of America Facing $864 Million Fine After Mortgage Fraud Verdict

U.S. sues Wells Fargo for mortgage fraud - Oct. 9, 2012

First California is mainly run by the Democrats my guess is there was some piss poor management there second these companies shouldn't have been bailed out third there will always some companies that cross the line but overall the private sector still has a better record than the federal government,

The private sector and the federal government are one in the same. Nixonacare Obamacare what's the difference?

The main difference for the most part you screw up in the private sector unlike the federal government everyone else does not have to for your mistakes.

 

[Billy000]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

My state borders Canada. We don't have Canadians coming down here for health care.

In fact all the Canadians I know who live down here, they're married to Americans, keep their citizenship just for that health care. They get duel citizenship for their kids just for that health care.

I've talked to countless Canadians, they would NEVER change to our health care system and don't understand why we tolerate the system we have.

It's a good thing that we don't base policy on your circle of acquaintances (May 5, 2008):

More than 100 Canadian women with high-risk pregnancies have been sent to United States hospitals over the past year – in what a doctors' group attributes to the lack of a national birthing plan.

The problem has peaked, with British Columbia and Ontario each sending a record number of women to U.S. neonatal intensive care units (NICUs). Specifically, 80 B.C. women have been sent to U.S. hospitals since April 1, 2007; in Ontario, 28 have been sent since January of 2007, according to figures from the respective health ministries.

André Lalonde, executive vice-president of the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada, said the problem is due to bed closings that took place almost a decade ago, the absence of a national birthing initiative and too few staff.

“Neonatologists are very stretched right now,” Dr. Lalonde said in a telephone interview from Ottawa. “We're so stretched, it's kind of dangerous.”. . . .

The inability for Canada to care for all of its sick and premature babies has caught the attention of renowned pediatrics professor Shoo Lee, who is studying the health outcomes of infants sent abroad, in addition to those who remain here, often under stretched staffing conditions.

“If you have insufficient resources in the province, what does that mean for those kept in the system?” Dr. Lee, director of the Canadian Neonatal Network, said from Edmonton. “Are they being admitted to the NICU only when they are very sick? Are they being pushed out too early to make room for others?”

Philippe Chessex, division head of neonatology for B.C. Women's Hospital & Health Centre, said every effort is made to avoid out-of-province transfers. Even sick babies who aren't sent to the U.S. can still face several moves while at home.

“We're transferring babies across the province, in all directions, to try to find an extra bed for the next potential birth or for any baby already born,” Dr. Chessex said in a telephone interview from Vancouver. “We now have babies who have been transferred up to six times after leaving here before reaching home.”

For parents, the devastating news that their baby is sick due to a malformation, illness or being born prematurely is compounded by the reality that there simply is not a bed available for their infant close to home.

“Whenever a sick baby is born, it's really a disaster for these families because it was unexpected. And it just puts a terrible stress on them,” Dr. Chessex said. “If they are sent out of country at that moment, it is just unbelievable the kind of pressure that they must go under.”

No one knows that better than Jade Pascoe, of Cranbrook, B.C., who went into labour 15 weeks earlier than her due date. She gave birth on March 29, to Nevin James William Moore, who came into this world weighing 1 pound 10 ounces. “They tried to get me somewhere in Canada,” said Ms. Pascoe, 19. “But there was nowhere to send me.” The hospital where she gave birth does not have a NICU. And when no NICU bed could be located in B.C. or Alberta, her son was sent to a hospital in Spokane, located in eastern Washington.
​

A mid-sized city in WA has the spare neonatal capacity that can't be found anywhere in Canada.

Now keep in mind that whatever medical outcomes Canada is reporting exist in a situation where Canada can use spare capacity in the US. What would happen to these babies if there were no spare capacity in the the US?

Also note how they're pushing babies through neonatal units in order to open up room for the next preemie. Discharging the babies is done for administrative reasons rather than because babies are medically cleared.

Oh no! 100 Canadian women! Holy shit! Hmm well I guess they better make reforms!

Meanwhile 10s of millions of Americans can't afford basic treatment to costly terminal illnesses like cancer.

 

[Rotagilla]

The painfully obvious problem you people have is that you buy into this teabagger propaganda that government is inherently flawed therefore it is doomed to fail if taking over the healthcare system. That's just stupid. No system is perfect. Yes Canadian's system has flaws but so does any other system. Ours sucks a big one for the simple reason of its affordability. I know you cons have a deficit with empathy but for those of you who ever wind up with cancer or other costly life threatening diseases you will see how shitty it is.

It is abundantly clear that you are a deeply flawed human being. No form of government can be trusted and must be watched and if necessary, pulled back from abuse. The fact that you are actually in a headlong rush to return to the kind of servitude we escaped 236 years ago should frighten you, but you buy into the progressive propaganda that government can take care of you.

I seriously think you've been debating an adolescent. He reasons and talks like a child...
I doubt he has a mortgage or insurance or even a car..He might be old enough to have his drivers license..

Lol it's so much easier to dismiss those who disagree with you by demonizing them isn't it?

There's nothing wrong with being young and immature and having little life experience....and pretending to know everything...while not even owning a car a house, or having insurance...

 

[2aguy]

The only reason government run healthcare has lasted so long is that Europe hasn't had to pay for it's own defense since the end of WW2... With Obama degrading the U.S. Military and not much caring about evil rampaging through the Middle East or Europe...now they will have to increase that military spending...which will speed up the collapse of their social welfare,systems...a look at their rapidly collapsing medical system in Britain...

Articles In the Toilet -- British NHS Today U.S. Healthcare Tomorrow

According to official British government statistics, in August 2014, there were 3.2 million Britons – 5% of their total population! -- awaiting surgery. Some – 189,571, to be precise -- had already waited for more than four months!

To get paid at all, and to try to get patients the care they need (before they die while waiting, like U.S. veterans and Canadians), British hospitals have begun advertising that self-funded patients can move up the queue, or they can get care that is denied by NHS rationing. In other words, those with money, who already paid for their health care through taxes, can get the care they need by paying (again) out of pocket. Those without sufficient resources to pay double are moved even further down the queue and are unlikely ever to get care.

Over the years, NHS medical rationing has gotten more and more severe. Early on, it was things like no transplants over the age of 70. Then, they denied heart surgery over 65. Next it was no kidney dialysis over age 55. Now, rationing is draconian: hip replacements, arthritis injections, and cataract surgery deferred, delayed, or denied -- the three “D” strategy most hated by Americans when used by U.S. insurance companies.

The Daily Mail has confirmed the worst fears of public policy analysts regarding single-payer systems. They fail to provide timely care or care at all. They try to control costs using medical rationing … and fail. They do not even distribute equal amounts of misery. (Winston Churchill: “The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”) Just as in market-based systems, the affluent in single-payer systems can get care that is denied to the less fortunate.

 

[Seawytch]

To the OP...the two most top rated health care delivery systems in the United States as far as patient satisfaction are concerned...Medicare and the VA,
government run healthcare systems. VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey VAntage Point

 

[gipper]

It is truly amazing that any American believes government run anything, let alone a service as important and as large as healthcare, could be successful. Have they not bothered to analyze government's track record, these past few decades?

 

[Rotagilla]

It is truly amazing that any American believes government run anything, let alone a service as important and as large as healthcare, could be successful. Have they not bothered to analyze government's track record, these past few decades?

I don't think many of them were even alive several decades ago...ahhh..youth...they know everything.

LMAO..actually we have more than enough "youth"..somebody needs to find the "Fountain of Smart", instead.

 

[Redfish]

To the OP...the two most top rated health care delivery systems in the United States as far as patient satisfaction are concerned...Medicare and the VA,
government run healthcare systems. VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey VAntage Point

How do the VA patients who died waiting for appointments vote in that poll?

 

[Redfish]

It is truly amazing that any American believes government run anything, let alone a service as important and as large as healthcare, could be successful. Have they not bothered to analyze government's track record, these past few decades?

see my thread on that topic.

 

[2aguy]

How do the VA patients who died waiting for appointments vote in that poll?

The way supporters of big government work...they probably voted 4 times each...

 

[asterism]

To the OP...the two most top rated health care delivery systems in the United States as far as patient satisfaction are concerned...Medicare and the VA,
government run healthcare systems. VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey VAntage Point

Did you even read the chart? It's for satisfaction with the cost. Of course Medicare and Medicaid patients are satisfied with paying nothing or close to it.

 

[asterism]

To the OP...the two most top rated health care delivery systems in the United States as far as patient satisfaction are concerned...Medicare and the VA,
government run healthcare systems. VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey VAntage Point

Your link refers to a poll of satisfaction among government agencies only.

American Customer Satisfaction Index

 

[dblack]

Health care shouldn't be run by government for the same reason that nothing else should be run by government unless it's absolutely necessary. To understand why this is the case, we need a clear understanding of what government does, in particular what it can do, that other public institutions cannot: government forces conformity.

So when we're asking whether any aspects of our lives should be "run by government" we're asking whether it's justified to force conformity. In my view, if we wish to maintain a free society, we should only force conformity when non-conformity is truly intolerable. I don't think that's the case with health care.

 

[bripat9643]

To the OP...the two most top rated health care delivery systems in the United States as far as patient satisfaction are concerned...Medicare and the VA,
government run healthcare systems. VA Rates High on Patient Satisfaction in National Survey VAntage Point

You mean the patients who weren't killed by the VA rated it highly? How did the ones who died because they got no care rate it?