Can The Govt FORCE You To Promote A Choice That Goes Against Your Religion? The Fight Continues...

[NYcarbineer]

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

From the court's established levels of scrutiny:

Levels of Scrutiny Under the Equal Protection Clause

 

[NYcarbineer]

The government has the power to make discrimination illegal. That should be obvious.

It should be obviously insane.

Nevertheless, you're right. The government has the power to do whatever we let them get away with.

That's the core principle behind democratic government. The power resides with the People.

 

[dblack]

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

From the court's established levels of scrutiny:

Levels of Scrutiny Under the Equal Protection Clause

That was all about government discriminating. Not government making laws that prohibit individuals from discriminating.

 

[dblack]

The government has the power to make discrimination illegal. That should be obvious.

It should be obviously insane.

Nevertheless, you're right. The government has the power to do whatever we let them get away with.

That's the core principle behind democratic government. The power resides with the People.

Sure. But how much power? The power to decide whether an individual's personal preferences are rational or not?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Can The Govt FORCE You To Promote A Choice That Goes Against Your Religion? The Fight Continues..."

No, the ignorance, fear, hate, and bigotry continue.

Citizens cannot ‘justify’ refusing to obey just and proper laws based on religions objections, such as public accommodations laws with provisions for sexual orientation.

And requiring citizens to obey laws they might subjectively perceive to ‘violate’ their religious beliefs does not ‘force’ one to ‘go against’ his religion:

“We have never held that an individual's religious beliefs [p879] excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law prohibiting conduct that the State is free to regulate. On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition.”

Employment Division v. Smith

 

[Silhouette]

So then gay graphic artists can be forced to print billboards that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". OK.

 

[norwegen]

If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.

Yes, our government should limit our potential, censure our dreams. We must be subjugated.

To hell with the Bill of Rights.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The government has the power to make discrimination illegal. That should be obvious.

It should be obviously insane.

Nevertheless, you're right. The government has the power to do whatever we let them get away with.

That's the core principle behind democratic government. The power resides with the People.

Sure. But how much power? The power to decide whether an individual's personal preferences are rational or not?

No, the power to enact laws in good faith that comport with the Constitution and its case law.

And when the people err, and enact measures in bad faith, repugnant to the Constitution, those adversely effected are at liberty to seek relief in Federal court – where the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law will make the ultimate decision.

As for public accommodations laws, they are necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory measures as authorized by the Commerce Clause, enacted by the people in good faith.

 

[dblack]

The government has the power to make discrimination illegal. That should be obvious.

It should be obviously insane.

Nevertheless, you're right. The government has the power to do whatever we let them get away with.

That's the core principle behind democratic government. The power resides with the People.

Sure. But how much power? The power to decide whether an individual's personal preferences are rational or not?

No, the power to enact laws in good faith that comport with the Constitution and its case law.

And should the power to enact laws in good ... yada, yada ... include the power to punish people for behaving irrationally? Or the power to decide, in the first place, which behavior is rational and which isn't?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So then gay graphic artists can be forced to print billboards that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". OK.

lol

No, you ignorant bigot – this makes no sense whatsoever, and has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[Syriusly]

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

What he said was overly broad but close.

No one is trying to shut you up, unfortunately. Your religious freedom does not extend to discriminating against others if you are in business.

So then a gay artist can't refuse on principle to print a billboard for a Christian that reads "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". Right? He can be fined or jailed for refusing to do that.

If the gay artist provides art for billboards- no he cannot turn it down just because he disapproves of the religious beliefs of the customer.

He would be acting just like the baker- and violating the law the same way.

So then it's time to put that one to a legal test. Christians? Know any gay graphic art companies in your town?

I look forward to that personal add.

"Christian couple looks for gay graphic artists for a good time"

 

[Syriusly]

If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.

Yes, our government should limit our potential, censure our dreams. We must be subjugated.

To hell with the Bill of Rights.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

 

[Silhouette]

So then a gay artist can't refuse on principle to print a billboard for a Christian that reads "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". Right? He can be fined or jailed for refusing to do that.

I look forward to that personal add.

"Christian couple looks for gay graphic artists for a good time"

Wow, that's off topic and a blatant strawman. When you're ready to talk about if a gay graphic artist can refuse on principle to print that billboard, let me know, OK?

 

[norwegen]

If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.

Yes, our government should limit our potential, censure our dreams. We must be subjugated.

To hell with the Bill of Rights.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

What business is that of yours?

 

[dblack]

No, the power to enact laws in good faith that comport with the Constitution and its case law.

Hey C, as long as you're here, do you care to comment on g5000's earlier claim that the "Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone."? As I said, I've seen nothing that broad. All that I know of is that the Court has upheld laws that prohibit certain, politically-unpopular reasons. Do you have any case law that shows different?

 

[Syriusly]

So then a gay artist can't refuse on principle to print a billboard for a Christian that reads "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". Right? He can be fined or jailed for refusing to do that.

I look forward to that personal add.

"Christian couple looks for gay graphic artists for a good time"

Wow, that's off topic and a blatant strawman. When you're ready to talk about if a gay graphic artist can refuse on principle to print that billboard, let me know, OK?

I already posted- the answer is no.

Just like a Christian could not refuse to print a billboard that a Muslim wanted to have printed up that said "Allah is the one and True God and Mohammed is his Prophet"

 

[Syriusly]

If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.

Yes, our government should limit our potential, censure our dreams. We must be subjugated.

To hell with the Bill of Rights.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

What business is that of yours?

You brought up your dreams- i pointed out that some dreams are destined for disappointment.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

It’s poorly worded, not very accurate, but in essence correct.

In order for government to place restrictions on our rights and protected liberties, any measure which seeks to do so must be rationally based, be supported by objective, documented evidence, and the restriction must pursue a legitimate legislative end.

Which explains why the Supreme Court struck down measures that prohibited same-sex couples to marry, because those measures sought to restrict the due process and equal protection rights of gay Americans in violation of the 14th Amendment.

Measures which sought to deny same-sex couples access to marriage law were not rationally based, there was no objective, documented evidence in support of such measures, and the measures pursued no legitimate legislative end – the measures sought solely to disadvantage gay Americans for no other reason than who they are – which government may not do.

 

[dblack]

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

What he said was overly broad but close.

No one is trying to shut you up, unfortunately. Your religious freedom does not extend to discriminating against others if you are in business.

So then a gay artist can't refuse on principle to print a billboard for a Christian that reads "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". Right? He can be fined or jailed for refusing to do that.

If the gay artist provides art for billboards- no he cannot turn it down just because he disapproves of the religious beliefs of the customer.

He would be acting just like the baker- and violating the law the same way.

So then it's time to put that one to a legal test. Christians? Know any gay graphic art companies in your town?

I look forward to that personal add.

"Christian couple looks for gay graphic artists for a good time"

The Supreme Court has said you must have a rational reason for discriminating against someone.

Where did you get that idea? I've seen nothing at all that broad.

What he said was overly broad but close.

I don't see how. That's a popular misconception of how discrimination laws work, but it's not the reality.

I guess what stuns me is that so many people are ready to grant this kind of power to government in the midst of an election that presents of the real possibility of a fascist taking the reins.

 

[norwegen]

If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.

Yes, our government should limit our potential, censure our dreams. We must be subjugated.

To hell with the Bill of Rights.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

What business is that of yours?

You brought up your dreams- i pointed out that some dreams are destined for disappointment.

If your dream is to run a business that can deny service to blacks and Jews, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

And I said so what. It's none of your business.