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buying and selling is one thing
These cases coming up involve actual forced participation and speech.
That's going a bit further.
In one case, the baker had no problem baking the cake. But delivering it as part of their service involved attending the gay wedding, and that's what they asked to refrain from. That's private and outside the public storefront.
If you deliver to weddings you deliver to weddings. That's a part of your business. If you refuse to deliver to same sex weddings, that's discrimination.
Goddam that is so simple and easy to understand it's depressing to think that some people can't get it.
[
buying and selling is one thing
These cases coming up involve actual forced participation and speech.
That's going a bit further.
In one case, the baker had no problem baking the cake. But delivering it as part of their service involved attending the gay wedding, and that's what they asked to refrain from. That's private and outside the public storefront.
If you deliver to weddings you deliver to weddings. That's a part of your business. If you refuse to deliver to same sex weddings, that's discrimination.
Goddam that is so simple and easy to understand it's depressing to think that some people can't get it.
I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Religion isn't a free ticket to anything. It has nothing to do with the issue. Freedom of conscience is far more fundamental.
If you claim that your religion entitles you to disobey a law without penalty, that's claiming a free ticket.
I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Religion isn't a free ticket to anything. It has nothing to do with the issue. Freedom of conscience is far more fundamental.
If you claim that your religion entitles you to disobey a law without penalty, that's claiming a free ticket.
I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.
It's no different than a Muslim applying for a job in a bacon store and then saying he can't touch bacon because of his stupid religion
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
[
buying and selling is one thing
These cases coming up involve actual forced participation and speech.
That's going a bit further.
In one case, the baker had no problem baking the cake. But delivering it as part of their service involved attending the gay wedding, and that's what they asked to refrain from. That's private and outside the public storefront.
If you deliver to weddings you deliver to weddings. That's a part of your business. If you refuse to deliver to same sex weddings, that's discrimination.
Goddam that is so simple and easy to understand it's depressing to think that some people can't get it.
NYcarbineer
So if a videographer films people's parties,
and someone is having a group sex porn party with strippers, swingers and swappers,
then they are required to film that party.
Or it's discriminating over different beliefs about sex?
[
Dear NYcarbineer the LGBT beliefs are also a creed.
That does not give advocates of those beliefs the right to penalize people of other creeds.
CREED is protected from discrimination.
Why can't you treat both equally as creeds, regardless which one you hold?
How is it not discrimination to tell someone "your religion is not relevant, serve that person?"
That of course can't be answered.
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Religion isn't a free ticket to anything. It has nothing to do with the issue. Freedom of conscience is far more fundamental.
If you claim that your religion entitles you to disobey a law without penalty, that's claiming a free ticket.
Dear NYcarbineer the LGBT beliefs are also a creed.
That does not give advocates of those beliefs the right to penalize people of other creeds.
CREED is protected from discrimination.
Why can't you treat both equally as creeds, regardless which one you hold?
If you are Muslim, and a Muslim is pushing the anti-pork belief
on a Hindu business that is selling pork but not beef, suing them to substitute beef in an enchilada instead of pork, does this give you the right to violate the beliefs of the Hindu because
you and the other Muslims are pushing a case that favors YOUR beliefs?
Where is the equal protection in that?
I don't have to agree with LGBT, Christians or Muslims to defend rights to their beliefs from infringement discrimination disparagement or penalty by govt.
Do you have to agree with Christians before you will enforce laws defending their beliefs?
You see it as a free ticket to discriminate.I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.
It's no different than a Muslim applying for a job in a bacon store and then saying he can't touch bacon because of his stupid religion
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
"I'm a doctor who's Christian, and I don't believe I should have to render healing services to anyone who calls themself a witch. It is against my religion."
Derps, render unto Caesar. I'm pretty sure Jesus himself said that. And I know, kristians in America don't actually read, listen to or follow Jesus, but you at least have to make some fake gesture that you do.
Hi IsaacNewton now HERE's a case that CAN likely be proven scientifically with the right technology.
It is argued that witchcraft/occult and DARK energy CLASHES with the positive spiritual healing energy.
And that this causes hazards to the people involved, similar to mixing AC with DC power that short circuits.
YES if people who are atheist and wicca can refuse to mix with Christians,
to avoid personal conflicts, they have that right due to irreconcileable beliefs that otherwise disrupt the peace.
Just like you have the right to divorce if you and your Scientology spouse can't agree how to raise the kids.
Beliefs are protected for individuals and cannot be mandated or penalized by govt.
If you are somehow abusing your beliefs to violate the rights of others, it is the violation not the belief that is illegal.
And likewise, neither can a correction or law be enforced that goes too far the other way,
and violates the beliefs of the other side either.
You can't impose punishment or correction that is so biased it violates rights and the same law being enforced.
In this case, the laws against discrimination also include CREED.
So by treating both sides equally as CREEDS, the laws and enforcement
must accommodate both sides in proposing a correction or solution.
A solution isn't one if it creates the equal and opposite problem, as with these cases going too far!
How is it not discrimination to tell someone "your religion is not relevant, serve that person?"
That of course can't be answered.
Religion is not business. Business is business.
You see it as a free ticket to discriminate.I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.If your religion prohibits you from adhering to public accommodation laws then you shouldn't have a business.
It's no different than a Muslim applying for a job in a bacon store and then saying he can't touch bacon because of his stupid religion
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Christians whose religious rights are protected by the Constitution see it as protection to worship freely and be protected from those who would seek to force them to comply with demands that go againt their beliefs.
There are other artist, bakers, singers, etc that will gladly take their business. Instead of going to one of those, libs must target the ones who pass due to their Constitutionally protected rights, not being happy until they have broken them, forced their will upon them, and forced them to violate their religious beliefs.
Why don't you Islamic Sympathizers pick on Muslims like that for a while, demand they give up religious beliefs and practices because they are bias, discriminatory, and will not be accepted / allowed by Liberals?!
If you still have your head or haven't been shot or nlown up afterwards, come back and talk to me...
If Jesus tells you not to provide a service to a wedding, then you should put your religion above your business and choose another line of work
Caving in to religion on these sorts of matters would turn every individual into his own personal government. Every law he objected to he could circumvent by claiming that to obey the law was against his religion.
You see it as a free ticket to discriminate.I completely disagree. The Constitution protects my religious freedom. If you are a LGBT and want some artwork done, your desire for that artwork does not supersede my religious freedom. I do not impose my religious beliefs on you, and you do not try to force me to do something that violates my religious beliefs.
"I reserve the right to NOT provide a service." This actually was once an acceptable sign / practice for businesses, but Liberals seek to impose their will on others, IMO. It isn't just about getting LGBT 'accepted' as a norm, but they are also trying to FORCE others to 'participate in/support it', even if it is against their religious beliefs that are protected UN-CONDITIONALLY under the Constitution.
There are other artists who would gladly take your business. There are other bakeries that would gladly take your business. But that's not good enough. 'THAT' one refuses to do so, so we MUST FORCE them to do so against their will. While 'I' may not want to support your lifestyle / choices due to 'my' religious beliefs 'I' respect your right to be a LGBT and to have rights, 'you' demonstrate 'you' have no respect for 'my' religious beliefs and Constitutional Rights.
'Evil' (as I define in this saying as someone who wants to impose their will on others) teaches 'tolerance' until they are in a position to oppress, silence, and eliminate any opposition to their beliefs."
- We are seeing that today more and more. This oppression of Constitutionally protected rights of religious freedom, to me, is an example of that.
I also believe you and I may disagree on this issue, and that is ok....
You have freedom of religion, not freedom of business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Christians whose religious rights are protected by the Constitution see it as protection to worship freely and be protected from those who would seek to force them to comply with demands that go againt their beliefs.
There are other artist, bakers, singers, etc that will gladly take their business. Instead of going to one of those, libs must target the ones who pass due to their Constitutionally protected rights, not being happy until they have broken them, forced their will upon them, and forced them to violate their religious beliefs.
Why don't you Islamic Sympathizers pick on Muslims like that for a while, demand they give up religious beliefs and practices because they are bias, discriminatory, and will not be accepted / allowed by Liberals?!
If you still have your head or haven't been shot or nlown up afterwards, come back and talk to me...
They are not forced to comply. They can close down their business.
You do realize Chik-fil-et is closed on Sunday due to their religious belief, right? And no matter how loudly an aethist screams they are being discriminated against by the owners by refusing to open up and feed him on a Sunday, NO ONE is going to force them to go against their faith by forcing them to open on Sunday.How is it not discrimination to tell someone "your religion is not relevant, serve that person?"
That of course can't be answered.
Religion is not business. Business is business.
That's the crux of the problem, the notion that the freedom to conduct business isn't every bit as important as the freedom to practice religion.
If religion were a free ticket to discrimination, every bigot in the country would declare his particular desires to discriminate as religious beliefs.
Religion isn't a free ticket to anything. It has nothing to do with the issue. Freedom of conscience is far more fundamental.
If you claim that your religion entitles you to disobey a law without penalty, that's claiming a free ticket.
Dear NYcarbineer the LGBT beliefs are also a creed.
That does not give advocates of those beliefs the right to penalize people of other creeds.
CREED is protected from discrimination.
Why can't you treat both equally as creeds, regardless which one you hold?
If you are Muslim, and a Muslim is pushing the anti-pork belief
on a Hindu business that is selling pork but not beef, suing them to substitute beef in an enchilada instead of pork, does this give you the right to violate the beliefs of the Hindu because
you and the other Muslims are pushing a case that favors YOUR beliefs?
Where is the equal protection in that?
I don't have to agree with LGBT, Christians or Muslims to defend rights to their beliefs from infringement discrimination disparagement or penalty by govt.
Do you have to agree with Christians before you will enforce laws defending their beliefs?
No, their beliefs are not creeds, they are sexual orientations, and therefore none of your or anybody else's business.
creed
krēd/
noun
- a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith.
Are you really trying to equate slavery with gay cakes?
My Gawd....
What?
No, I'm comparing laws that were wrong, to laws that are wrong.
God damn what has happened to reading comprehension in this country?
Was there a law on the books prohibiting the sale of gay cakes?
What do gay cakes have to do with what I fucking wrote?
The claim was that PA laws have been law for 50 years so they must be right. I merely pointed out that slavery was legal for 100 years in this country, that damn sure doesn't make it right.
I responded to the wrong person.. my bad.... Mozilla cutoff part of my page, I thought you were syriously.
Oh, man I was confused LOL I was like wtf is he talking about?
