Can you be a "non-Christian" and still go to heaven?

[Mudda]

If you're not a Christian, why would you want to go to Christian heaven? It sounds rather a dull and boring place in the first place, kind of like being forced to go to Sunday School or Church for the rest of your death. I can think of better things to do in my death.

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

 

[frigidweirdo]

No it's not arrogance.

Arrogance would be telling people what happens after death, and telling them you KNOW this is true.

Rubbish, you have as much idea as I do, and I don't have a clue.

None of us know. That's where faith comes in. You may be right, but then again, I know what a Carpenter did for me 2000 years ago....and I'll never forget that.

None of us know. That's what make belief come in.

You KNOW what Jesus did 2000 years ago?

I read a book about King Harold of England and the Battle of Hastings and all that. It's based of very little evidence, and that was half the time of when Jesus was supposed to have existed.

How do you know someone isn't taking you for a ride?

I mean, you have world religions, and many Muslims tell everyone they're right, and the Christians and the Jews do the same.

The simple fact is, if you had been born in Saudi Arabia instead of wherever you were born, you'd be telling me that Islam is the truth faith.

Yes. I guess I'm just lucky. Nice thing about Christianity is you have more of a choice. In Saudi Arabia you don't. Beheadings are common place. Women need a male escort to go out in public. Marriages are arranged. You can go to prison for blasphemy, which is what you're doing when you say you're God.

Yes, I'd rather have been born a Christian than a Muslim. But I'm glad that I was only slightly forced into Christianity and allowed my own choice too.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that where you are born determines what you "believe", rather than there being this belief system washing around in people's heads.

Plenty of Muslims converted to Christianity.

If you were born in the 1800s must you own slaves? If you were born in the South during reconsruction and Jim Crow must you hate blacks?

Muslims find it difficult to leave their faith, but is any faith that is forced upon you to extremes real?

Yes, some Muslims convert, I think probably more people convert the other way. People do have that choice.

However I find that many people can't accept to convert. To be told that everything you were brought up to believe is false, it kind of hurts people too much for them to be able to change.

 

[mudwhistle]

You should know that the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning your faith that he is the son of God, and he sacrificed his life to cleanse us of our sins. You cannot assume you're going to Heaven, but you must always strive for that goal. Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying.

So you just lied?

Nope. I was answering his question in the OP.
The truth is nobody knows if they're going to Heaven. But, I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ.

You said: "I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ." as well as ". Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying." Which means you're lying when you say the first statement.

Well you were mistaken. I have no problem with short-term memory loss, which allows me to not be distracted easily. Sometimes instead of showing your stupidity and making silly statements you should read the comment that a person is responding to first before popping off some wild accusation about what the intention was. It helps to formulate proper context before make a fool of one's self.

Oh, so it's time to move the goalposts while you backtrack. Nice move, but you lose.

No....I'm just letting you know you are mistaken. It's not my fault you're don't do your homework and like to jump to conclusions.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you're not a Christian, why would you want to go to Christian heaven? It sounds rather a dull and boring place in the first place, kind of like being forced to go to Sunday School or Church for the rest of your death. I can think of better things to do in my death.

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

Nope. That was the Garden Of Eden.

Heaven is not on Earth.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I don't think you understand what God is. He doesn't control "stuff".

From what I've read Satan has dominion over the Earth.

I don't think you understand what God is. He doesn't control "stuff".

From what I've read Satan has dominion over the Earth.

God is what you want God to be. I bet if you asked 100 people what God is, you'd get a massive variety of answers.

How do you know what God is? Did he (or she, or it) ever tell you?

Or did you choose to believe what others told you?

God isn't what you want him to be. It's not up to you to decide what he is or if he exists.
And I think any faith should not be taken at face value, or blindly followed. The nice thing about the Trinity is the Holy Spirit. You have to be open to it, and you have to accept it. The Holy Spirit is what directs you, not God. Some call it a conscience.

Sure it is.

No one has ever seen God, no one has ever spoken with God. Some people decided he looked like so old dude. I've decided God doesn't exist, or if he does, he's me.

I did that. It's done. You can't change that.

You decide he does exist, you decide he is a he. That's the human brain doing that, not some knowledge of something outside of humanity.

Look at Christianity. People have decided so well on what is Christianity that there are THREE main forms of it, Orthodox, Catholicism and Protestantism which might as well be call Pick-n'-Mix-ism.

Then within each of these people can't even decide on what the reality is.

You've never talked to God? How sad.

Well, talking to yourself is one of the 10,000 first signs of madness, right?

Yep, you proved it. Your only knee jerk response is discounting what hundreds of millions of us have done.
They have eyes yet do not see......

 

[Mudda]

So you just lied?

Nope. I was answering his question in the OP.
The truth is nobody knows if they're going to Heaven. But, I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ.

You said: "I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ." as well as ". Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying." Which means you're lying when you say the first statement.

Well you were mistaken. I have no problem with short-term memory loss, which allows me to not be distracted easily. Sometimes instead of showing your stupidity and making silly statements you should read the comment that a person is responding to first before popping off some wild accusation about what the intention was. It helps to formulate proper context before make a fool of one's self.

Oh, so it's time to move the goalposts while you backtrack. Nice move, but you lose.

No....I'm just letting you know you are mistaken. It's not my fault you're don't do your homework and like to jump to conclusions.

Says the guys who has no proof of heaven but jumps to the conclusion that because someone wrote it in a book, it must exist.

 

[Mudda]

If you're not a Christian, why would you want to go to Christian heaven? It sounds rather a dull and boring place in the first place, kind of like being forced to go to Sunday School or Church for the rest of your death. I can think of better things to do in my death.

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

Nope. That was the Garden Of Eden.

Heaven is not on Earth.

So where is heaven?

 

[Mudda]

They have eyes yet do not see......

Says the guy who supported the anti-Christ and Canadian, Ted Cruz.

 

[mudwhistle]

Math and other scientific discoveries are not man-made but existed before man discovered them. Ex: man did not set the speed of light, but merely observed it and quantified it. Whereas, because nothing about god is observable, this makes god a theory until such point that something about god can be proven.

Now you are getting my point. The same is true of God. Man did not create God, but observed God's presence within life. Once again, we cannot measure that which is spirit by physical means. We do not measure rocks using a liter measurement, nor do we measure rainfall in terms of miles. If mankind ever does find the means to measure God, we can be certain we won't be using a yardstick. Consider, for example: How do we measure the beauty of an almond blossom against the beauty of a pear blossom? Just as we do not have a measure for beauty and other things qualitative, we don't have a measure for spiritual. We can observe.

Except nobody has ever observed god, so you're still at the theory point.

Moses saw him.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't think you understand what God is. He doesn't control "stuff".

From what I've read Satan has dominion over the Earth.

I don't think you understand what God is. He doesn't control "stuff".

From what I've read Satan has dominion over the Earth.

God is what you want God to be. I bet if you asked 100 people what God is, you'd get a massive variety of answers.

How do you know what God is? Did he (or she, or it) ever tell you?

Or did you choose to believe what others told you?

God isn't what you want him to be. It's not up to you to decide what he is or if he exists.
And I think any faith should not be taken at face value, or blindly followed. The nice thing about the Trinity is the Holy Spirit. You have to be open to it, and you have to accept it. The Holy Spirit is what directs you, not God. Some call it a conscience.

Sure it is.

No one has ever seen God, no one has ever spoken with God. Some people decided he looked like so old dude. I've decided God doesn't exist, or if he does, he's me.

I did that. It's done. You can't change that.

You decide he does exist, you decide he is a he. That's the human brain doing that, not some knowledge of something outside of humanity.

Look at Christianity. People have decided so well on what is Christianity that there are THREE main forms of it, Orthodox, Catholicism and Protestantism which might as well be call Pick-n'-Mix-ism.

Then within each of these people can't even decide on what the reality is.

You've never talked to God? How sad.

Well, talking to yourself is one of the 10,000 first signs of madness, right?

My wife talks to herself alot. But when you start answering back it become dicey.

 

[mudwhistle]

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

Nope. That was the Garden Of Eden.

Heaven is not on Earth.

So where is heaven?

How should I know. Obviously I'm not dead

 

[mudwhistle]

If you're not a Christian, why would you want to go to Christian heaven? It sounds rather a dull and boring place in the first place, kind of like being forced to go to Sunday School or Church for the rest of your death. I can think of better things to do in my death.

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

Not even close.

 

[mudwhistle]

None of us know. That's where faith comes in. You may be right, but then again, I know what a Carpenter did for me 2000 years ago....and I'll never forget that.

None of us know. That's what make belief come in.

You KNOW what Jesus did 2000 years ago?

I read a book about King Harold of England and the Battle of Hastings and all that. It's based of very little evidence, and that was half the time of when Jesus was supposed to have existed.

How do you know someone isn't taking you for a ride?

I mean, you have world religions, and many Muslims tell everyone they're right, and the Christians and the Jews do the same.

The simple fact is, if you had been born in Saudi Arabia instead of wherever you were born, you'd be telling me that Islam is the truth faith.

Yes. I guess I'm just lucky. Nice thing about Christianity is you have more of a choice. In Saudi Arabia you don't. Beheadings are common place. Women need a male escort to go out in public. Marriages are arranged. You can go to prison for blasphemy, which is what you're doing when you say you're God.

Yes, I'd rather have been born a Christian than a Muslim. But I'm glad that I was only slightly forced into Christianity and allowed my own choice too.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that where you are born determines what you "believe", rather than there being this belief system washing around in people's heads.

Plenty of Muslims converted to Christianity.

If you were born in the 1800s must you own slaves? If you were born in the South during reconsruction and Jim Crow must you hate blacks?

Muslims find it difficult to leave their faith, but is any faith that is forced upon you to extremes real?

Yes, some Muslims convert, I think probably more people convert the other way. People do have that choice.

However I find that many people can't accept to convert. To be told that everything you were brought up to believe is false, it kind of hurts people too much for them to be able to change.

Pride can be a terrible sin.

 

[mudwhistle]

Nope. I was answering his question in the OP.
The truth is nobody knows if they're going to Heaven. But, I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ.

You said: "I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ." as well as ". Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying." Which means you're lying when you say the first statement.

Well you were mistaken. I have no problem with short-term memory loss, which allows me to not be distracted easily. Sometimes instead of showing your stupidity and making silly statements you should read the comment that a person is responding to first before popping off some wild accusation about what the intention was. It helps to formulate proper context before make a fool of one's self.

Oh, so it's time to move the goalposts while you backtrack. Nice move, but you lose.

No....I'm just letting you know you are mistaken. It's not my fault you're don't do your homework and like to jump to conclusions.

Says the guys who has no proof of heaven but jumps to the conclusion that because someone wrote it in a book, it must exist.

I never went to Australia but I know it exists.

I know Heaven exists in the same way.

You can't see air, but you know it exists. Without it we wouldn't exist.

 

[Weatherman2020]

They have eyes yet do not see......

Says the guy who supported the anti-Christ and Canadian, Ted Cruz.

Please, get your people straight. The anti Christ serves Satan. Cruz is Satan himself.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Precisely! If people don't care about God or goodness in this life, what takes place the instant after death to make one care about God and goodness in the next?

I care about God. I am God, so I care quite a lot, thank you very much.

I'm also a very moral person, I don't need others to tell me what morals I should follow, I have a brain and I use it.

I live my life in the way I deem to be the best way, I care about other people around me, and I put a lot of effort into trying to help others to achieve what it is they want to achieve.

I don't need to be criticized by others simply because I don't accept their make belief.

Anyone who claims to be God probably isn't going to be welcomed into Heaven. Not only do you replace God in your heart, but you have no sense of humility.....which has a tendency to rule your thoughts and actions. Another thing that was stressed in the Gospel was good works alone cannot get you into the kingdom of Heaven. Faith is essential.

Heaven, is that the same place that god through adam out of for having sex with a woman?

Nope. That was the Garden Of Eden.

Heaven is not on Earth.

So where is heaven?

You can detect 4 dimensions. Yet there are several dozen more you cannot see or feel. But they exist.

 

[Weatherman2020]

From the late great pitcher Frank Pastore.

 

[frigidweirdo]

God is what you want God to be. I bet if you asked 100 people what God is, you'd get a massive variety of answers.

How do you know what God is? Did he (or she, or it) ever tell you?

Or did you choose to believe what others told you?

God isn't what you want him to be. It's not up to you to decide what he is or if he exists.
And I think any faith should not be taken at face value, or blindly followed. The nice thing about the Trinity is the Holy Spirit. You have to be open to it, and you have to accept it. The Holy Spirit is what directs you, not God. Some call it a conscience.

Sure it is.

No one has ever seen God, no one has ever spoken with God. Some people decided he looked like so old dude. I've decided God doesn't exist, or if he does, he's me.

I did that. It's done. You can't change that.

You decide he does exist, you decide he is a he. That's the human brain doing that, not some knowledge of something outside of humanity.

Look at Christianity. People have decided so well on what is Christianity that there are THREE main forms of it, Orthodox, Catholicism and Protestantism which might as well be call Pick-n'-Mix-ism.

Then within each of these people can't even decide on what the reality is.

You've never talked to God? How sad.

Well, talking to yourself is one of the 10,000 first signs of madness, right?

Yep, you proved it. Your only knee jerk response is discounting what hundreds of millions of us have done.
They have eyes yet do not see......

Oh, so hundreds of millions of people have done something, so it must be right, hey? Well 69 million people voted for Obama, so they must be right, hey?

 

[frigidweirdo]

None of us know. That's what make belief come in.

You KNOW what Jesus did 2000 years ago?

I read a book about King Harold of England and the Battle of Hastings and all that. It's based of very little evidence, and that was half the time of when Jesus was supposed to have existed.

How do you know someone isn't taking you for a ride?

I mean, you have world religions, and many Muslims tell everyone they're right, and the Christians and the Jews do the same.

The simple fact is, if you had been born in Saudi Arabia instead of wherever you were born, you'd be telling me that Islam is the truth faith.

Yes. I guess I'm just lucky. Nice thing about Christianity is you have more of a choice. In Saudi Arabia you don't. Beheadings are common place. Women need a male escort to go out in public. Marriages are arranged. You can go to prison for blasphemy, which is what you're doing when you say you're God.

Yes, I'd rather have been born a Christian than a Muslim. But I'm glad that I was only slightly forced into Christianity and allowed my own choice too.

But that wasn't the point. The point was that where you are born determines what you "believe", rather than there being this belief system washing around in people's heads.

Plenty of Muslims converted to Christianity.

If you were born in the 1800s must you own slaves? If you were born in the South during reconsruction and Jim Crow must you hate blacks?

Muslims find it difficult to leave their faith, but is any faith that is forced upon you to extremes real?

Yes, some Muslims convert, I think probably more people convert the other way. People do have that choice.

However I find that many people can't accept to convert. To be told that everything you were brought up to believe is false, it kind of hurts people too much for them to be able to change.

Pride can be a terrible sin.

I actually think that pride can be a great thing. Without pride who would care about anything?

It's all about how you use things. Anger can be used positively, and negatively, just like pride and many other attributes.

 

[Bonzi]

I have a question for the devout Christians in the house.

I grew up a Lutheran (which I call lazy Catholics) and attended church through High School and college. Once out on my own my wife and I (she did not grow up religious) looked for a church, and we just were not moved. I realized by that point that the reason I was looking for a church was more out of habit than anything. Eventually we gave up and we have not attended church for probably 20+ years. I think we live a pretty good life. We treat other people well and spend a lot of time trying to make our community better.

On the other hand, some of the most evil, spiteful people we have encountered are "Christians" who attend church every week. (side note - also some of the best people I know are Chrisitan).

So, my question is, what is better? Someone who lives a moral life without Church, or someone who is a terrible person but goes to church on a regular basis?

My opinion is no.
But know one knows this as a human based scientific fact either way.