Can you trace bullets like fingerprints?

[arnieisblack]

Can they basically trace it back to the gun owner without having the gun or the murder weapon aka gun on their hands?

 

[Anathema]

There is a question on whether or not there is a database on the rifling of new firearms.
When you buy a new gun you often get an empty shell casing with it. They say it's just to show the firearm has been tested.
But is it the only round fired through it? Of course they can check the ballistics on the slug but they also check the empty casing for extraction marks and the firing pin mark

This is something that was done by several states for a period of time. They forced manufacturers to include fired casings and bullets for the state police to include in their databases for potential forensic comparison.

I think all the states that were doing it have stopped since it proved to be absolutely useless. No crimes were solved this way and the states found it annoying to have to catalog all the ammunition. Besides, most intelligent gun owners simply bought a new barrel for their gun, making the previously catalogued ammunition irrelevant.

 

[arnieisblack]

This is something that was done by several states for a period of time. They forced manufacturers to include fired casings and bullets for the state police to include in their databases for potential forensic comparison.

I think all the states that were doing it have stopped since it proved to be absolutely useless. No crimes were solved this way and the states found it annoying to have to catalog all the ammunition. Besides, most intelligent gun owners simply bought a new barrel for their gun, making the previously catalogued ammunition irrelevant.

Do you know if it's based on facts? Be honest.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So do forensics need the exact gun to prove it was fired or can they do it with bullets alone?

Of course you need the gun.
Ya gotta have something to compare it to.

 

[Blues Man]

Can someone explain it to me how the police can trace bullets like fingerprints? And can you do it without the actual gun? Reason I'm asking is b/c in No Country For Old Men, lewelyn has a rifle and he's t he g ood guy,kinda. So why would he have a rifle to fight the bad guys when it could trace back to him? Many movies are like this.

If all you have is the slug and it's in good enough condition you can match the marks left from the barrel rifling with the gun it was fired from if you have the gun.

Sometimes the composition of the bullet can be traced to a particular manufacturer.
If you have the shell casing you can also match that to the gun that fired it because the firing pin leaves unique marks like a barrel and the shell casing will make it easy to find the manufacturer and maybe even the batch and where it may have been sold.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This is something that was done by several states for a period of time. They forced manufacturers to include fired casings and bullets for the state police to include in their databases for potential forensic comparison.

I think all the states that were doing it have stopped since it proved to be absolutely useless. No crimes were solved this way and the states found it annoying to have to catalog all the ammunition. Besides, most intelligent gun owners simply bought a new barrel for their gun, making the previously catalogued ammunition irrelevant.

I know the last revolver I bought didnt come with the empty casing.
The AR did though.

 

[Anathema]

Do you know if it's based on facts? Be honest.

Yes. This was the law in NY, MD and I believe a couple other states for nearly a decade. Both NY and MD ended the practice because it was in effective. I know NY gun owners who replaced pistol barrels immediately upon purchasing guns during that period of time.

If you’re getting an empty casing with a pistol now, it may be a “proof of function” item. Essentially a proof thst the gun was functioning when it left the factory.

 

[Anathema]

Of course you need the gun.
Ya gotta have something to compare it to.

They need the exact gun to make a 100% match. The FBI keeps records for general comparison from pretty much every model of firearm commercially available in the USA and has for decades.

 

[2aguy]

As I understand it, from being a TV detective, they can match 2 bullets by the rifling marks they leave on the bullets. That way they can tell the bullets came from the same gun but, without the gun they can't trace those bullets back to the gun that fired them. Unless there is some 'rifling' data base I don't know about. Criminals use stolen guns that can't be traced to them typically.

But only for a while....repeated firing of the rifle will change the marks in the barrel through friction...just like treads on a tire....right?

 

[Concerned American]

Does it just let them know what kind of gun it is or does it trace back to the exact gun owned by the owner?

I don't think it can trace back to the gun---unless they have the gun. They have to have something to match the bullet/casing to. It seems to be a really good tool to tie multiple crimes together by examining the casings/bullets but until they have the gun used it is impossible to tie the two together. You can have 100 bullets with the same rifling marks or 100 casings with the same bolt, firing pin or extractor marks, but if you don't have the gun that made the marks it is limited.

 

[arnieisblack]

So you got the bullet remnants and if it's registered they can match it to the gun they don't have?I'm so confused.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you got the bullet remnants and if it's registered they can match it to the gun they don't have?I'm so confused.

It's simple.
If they did fire the gun before they sold it and put the ballistic results in a database it could be matched to the gun even if it's not in their possession.
They could then go back and find out who purchased that weapon.
It's not rocket surgery.

 

[Concerned American]

So you got the bullet remnants and if it's registered they can match it to the gun they don't have?I'm so confused.

Nope, they can't match it to any gun until they have the gun. But---they can match bullets and casings from seemingly unrelated crimes that used the same gun and when they do get the gun, they can tie it all together.

 

[Concerned American]

It's simple.
If they did fire the gun before they sold it and put the ballistic results in a database it could be matched to the gun even if it's not in their possession.
They could then go back and find out who purchased that weapon.
It's not rocket surgery.

Or brain science. LOL

 

[arnieisblack]

Do you think it would be a good idea to just ban all guns? It worked in Australia.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Do you think it would be a good idea to just ban all guns? It worked in Australia.

Absolutely not.
We don't care what Australians do or any other country for that matter..
Look what happened to Venezuela,they took their firearms and 4 years later they were shooting down their own citizens in the streets.
When a country want to ban citizens from owning firearms you can bet that government is about to do something those citizens aren't going like.

 

[Concerned American]

Do you think it would be a good idea to just ban all guns? It worked in Australia.

NOPE

 

[Esdraelon]

Some bullets........depending on the manufacturer............can have engraved numbers on them and are tracable back to who bought that particular package with that bullet in it.

Some ammo has stamped images that are the copyright of the manufacturer, and can be traced through that line.

But I'd say most ammo has to be traced back to the weapon that used it, as every gun leaves different markings on the bullets when fired.

Or so I've been told.

Most guns will have a spent casing included in the case to show that a round has been fired and the rifling marks recorded.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Do you think it would be a good idea to just ban all guns? It worked in Australia.

No.
And no, they didn't.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Most guns will have a spent casing included in the case to show that a round has been fired and the rifling marks recorded.

We discussed that earlier in this thread.
I've purchased several guns that had the spent casing in the box but lately there hasnt been one.
I wouldnt begin to believe they didnt shoot it and added the results to a database they just dont leave the casing in the box anymore.