Can't wait to see how the Democrats respond to this latest Obama bombshell...

[NightFox]

That's where you lose it. Obama is "Commander In Chief". Do you. Understand what that entails?

Yes, I've already explained what that responsibility is in what I believe is sufficient detail , is there something you require clarification on?


We both understand that we're talking about enormous geographical separation as well as decision making authority between tactical command, operational command and the civilian authority, right? What scenario do you envision that the President is going to be required to make a snap decision based on real-time tactical information (that he's not even going to be able to grasp fully) ? The case you and others are trying to make (in order to score petty partisan political points) is that the President was completely disconnected from the operational realities in this case which is a baseless (and frankly ludicrous) assumption. I realize he has demonstrated repeatedly that he is less than competent but what you're attempting to assert that he's a complete and utter MORON, he'd have to be not to understand that if the mission went awry it would be a pretty safe bet that his re-election chances were somewhere south of NIL.

The rational assumption in the absence of facts to the contrary is that the President was advised by the chain of command (which includes Secretary of Defense) and his own staff that his presence was neither required nor conducive to operational success. Now you can second guess EVERY ONE of those people without knowing all the facts but personally I think it's foolish.


Yes there is and that's what I'm trying to point out to you, leadership doesn't require hanging over the shoulder of those that you lead once you've given them their marching orders, one of the key components of leadership is the ability to delegate authority properly.


I think it's a pretty safe bet that had already been established with respect to President Obama's leadership long before this mission took place. It's also a pretty safe bet that honorable commanders aren't about to let the public know their personal feelings on the subject.

My bet is his own people talk about him behind his back. It's inevitable.

Speculation on your part ....

Not speculation. Anyone who has ever been in a position of responsibility knows this.

Sorry but absent facts it's speculation, it might be "educated speculation" but it's speculation.

BTW, if Obama is in charge who's telling him he doesn't need to be around?

The President has a staff and he has a military chain of command that advise him in such matters, while I question the competence of much of the White House staff, I don't question the competence of our Senior Military Commanders (I admit I'm biased in that regard having served as both a line and a staff officer in the military).

If I was in charge I would fire the SOB that said that. Some things are too important to leave up to others to deal with.

That's of course your opinion, it becomes your prerogative only when you actually ARE in charge.

The bottom line is that with all the egregious nonsense this President has done and continues to do, trying to pick this pepper out of the fly excrement and hold it up as some sort of serious lapse of judgement is petty and counter-productive, especially since the mission in question was an unmitigated success.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Years ago I had the opportunity to meet a teacher from Pakistan whose family lived in Karachi. I told him that I had learned that Osama bin Laden was killed by Sheik Omar. He asked me, How do you know that? I told him that I had seen an interview with Benazir Bhutto and David Frost where she told him her life was in danger and she had received death threats. A couple of months after the youtube video aired she was murdered. Back to the interview:

She then told David Frost that Osama Bin Laden had been murdered by Sheik Omar a couple of years prior. He had been dead for approx. 2 yrs at the time. David Frost seemed stunned that she came out with that information and he didn't ask her any questions but instead he acted as if he never even heard her say it! Look up the video on youtube Benazir Bhutto interview with David Frost. Obviously they had not planned on that news coming out in that interview.

He told me that his mother had told him there was alot of strange activity going on prior to the seal team six story - that people were being told not to speak to any foreigners concerning Bin Laden being dead. He told me Benazir was correct. Bin Laden was dead. I asked him did Sheik Omar have him murdered? He told me he didn't know. All he knew was that he was dead and staging a seal team six capture & kill of Obama probably helped Obama so everyone was willing to play along with it. He was promising billions of dollars to the Pakistan govt. & basically bought their co-operation. That is why you never saw any photographs of Bin Ladens dead body.

When you think about the extent this administration went to with the help of the Pentagon - it's incredible. Books, movies, - all fabricated in order to bolster this mans image. ( as if it were possible ) The murder of Seal Team six has never been properly investigated. Even though top retired military have been demanding an investigation since it happened. And are STILL Demanding it. Why? They knew Bin Laden was already dead and the only way to make sure no one spilled the beans was to assassinate the people who knew the truth. Seal Team Six. Dead men can't talk. - Jeri

 

[Claudette]

Years ago I had the opportunity to meet a teacher from Pakistan whose family lived in Karachi. I told him that I had learned that Osama bin Laden was killed by Sheik Omar. He asked me, How do you know that? I told him that I had seen an interview with Benazir Bhutto and David Frost where she told him her life was in danger and she had received death threats. A couple of months after the youtube video aired she was murdered. Back to the interview:

She then told David Frost that Osama Bin Laden had been murdered by Sheik Omar a couple of years prior. He had been dead for approx. 2 yrs at the time. David Frost seemed stunned that she came out with that information and he didn't ask her any questions but instead he acted as if he never even heard her say it! Look up the video on youtube Benazir Bhutto interview with David Frost. Obviously they had not planned on that news coming out in that interview.

He told me that his mother had told him there was alot of strange activity going on prior to the seal team six story - that people were being told not to speak to any foreigners concerning Bin Laden being dead. He told me Benazir was correct. Bin Laden was dead. I asked him did Sheik Omar have him murdered? He told me he didn't know. All he knew was that he was dead and staging a seal team six capture & kill of Obama probably helped Obama so everyone was willing to play along with it. He was promising billions of dollars to the Pakistan govt. & basically bought their co-operation. That is why you never saw any photographs of Bin Ladens dead body.

When you think about the extent this administration went to with the help of the Pentagon - it's incredible. Books, movies, - all fabricated in order to bolster this mans image. ( as if it were possible ) The murder of Seal Team six has never been properly investigated. Even though top retired military have been demanding an investigation since it happened. And are STILL Demanding it. Why? They knew Bin Laden was already dead and the only way to make sure no one spilled the beans was to assassinate the people who knew the truth. Seal Team Six. Dead men can't talk. - Jeri

Pretty interesting tale. Any way to corroborate it??

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, I've already explained what that responsibility is in what I believe is sufficient detail , is there something you require clarification on?


We both understand that we're talking about enormous geographical separation as well as decision making authority between tactical command, operational command and the civilian authority, right? What scenario do you envision that the President is going to be required to make a snap decision based on real-time tactical information (that he's not even going to be able to grasp fully) ? The case you and others are trying to make (in order to score petty partisan political points) is that the President was completely disconnected from the operational realities in this case which is a baseless (and frankly ludicrous) assumption. I realize he has demonstrated repeatedly that he is less than competent but what you're attempting to assert that he's a complete and utter MORON, he'd have to be not to understand that if the mission went awry it would be a pretty safe bet that his re-election chances were somewhere south of NIL.

The rational assumption in the absence of facts to the contrary is that the President was advised by the chain of command (which includes Secretary of Defense) and his own staff that his presence was neither required nor conducive to operational success. Now you can second guess EVERY ONE of those people without knowing all the facts but personally I think it's foolish.


Yes there is and that's what I'm trying to point out to you, leadership doesn't require hanging over the shoulder of those that you lead once you've given them their marching orders, one of the key components of leadership is the ability to delegate authority properly.


I think it's a pretty safe bet that had already been established with respect to President Obama's leadership long before this mission took place. It's also a pretty safe bet that honorable commanders aren't about to let the public know their personal feelings on the subject.


Speculation on your part ....

Not speculation. Anyone who has ever been in a position of responsibility knows this.

Sorry but absent facts it's speculation, it might be "educated speculation" but it's speculation.

BTW, if Obama is in charge who's telling him he doesn't need to be around?

The President has a staff and he has a military chain of command that advise him in such matters, while I question the competence of much of the White House staff, I don't question the competence of our Senior Military Commanders (I admit I'm biased in that regard having served as both a line and a staff officer in the military).

If I was in charge I would fire the SOB that said that. Some things are too important to leave up to others to deal with.

That's of course your opinion, it becomes your prerogative only when you actually ARE in charge.

The bottom line is that with all the egregious nonsense this President has done and continues to do, trying to pick this pepper out of the fly excrement and hold it up as some sort of serious lapse of judgement is petty and counter-productive, especially since the mission in question was an unmitigated success.

Actually it wasn't. We lost a Top Secret stealth aircraft. The Intel found on the ground was rendered useless the moment Obama ran to the microphone. If you are who you say you are you'd know this. Killing Bin Laden was the primary objective, but getting his lieutenants was a secondary objective, and Gates raised Hell over the lack of secrecy after the fact. Obama himself blew away any hopes for this.

So do me a favor and STFU, Sir.

 

[candycorn]

Not speculation. Anyone who has ever been in a position of responsibility knows this.

Sorry but absent facts it's speculation, it might be "educated speculation" but it's speculation.


The President has a staff and he has a military chain of command that advise him in such matters, while I question the competence of much of the White House staff, I don't question the competence of our Senior Military Commanders (I admit I'm biased in that regard having served as both a line and a staff officer in the military).

If I was in charge I would fire the SOB that said that. Some things are too important to leave up to others to deal with.

That's of course your opinion, it becomes your prerogative only when you actually ARE in charge.

The bottom line is that with all the egregious nonsense this President has done and continues to do, trying to pick this pepper out of the fly excrement and hold it up as some sort of serious lapse of judgement is petty and counter-productive, especially since the mission in question was an unmitigated success.

Actually it wasn't. We lost a Top Secret stealth aircraft. The Intel found on the ground was rendered useless the moment Obama ran to the microphone. If you are who you say you are you'd know this. Killing Bin Laden was the primary objective, but getting his lieutenants was a secondary objective, and Gates raised Hell over the lack of secrecy after the fact. Obama himself blew away any hopes for this.

So do me a favor and STFU, Sir.

At least now you're admitting Bin Laden is dead...small steps for a small man.

 

[NightFox]

Not speculation. Anyone who has ever been in a position of responsibility knows this.

Sorry but absent facts it's speculation, it might be "educated speculation" but it's speculation.


The President has a staff and he has a military chain of command that advise him in such matters, while I question the competence of much of the White House staff, I don't question the competence of our Senior Military Commanders (I admit I'm biased in that regard having served as both a line and a staff officer in the military).

If I was in charge I would fire the SOB that said that. Some things are too important to leave up to others to deal with.

That's of course your opinion, it becomes your prerogative only when you actually ARE in charge.

The bottom line is that with all the egregious nonsense this President has done and continues to do, trying to pick this pepper out of the fly excrement and hold it up as some sort of serious lapse of judgement is petty and counter-productive, especially since the mission in question was an unmitigated success.

Actually it wasn't. We lost a Top Secret stealth aircraft. The Intel found on the ground was rendered useless the moment Obama ran to the microphone.

The aircraft in question was destroyed by our own forces because it was damaged and the primary objective of the operation was Osama Bin Laden . The mission objective was achieved without loss of U.S. personnel, now while you may deem that as less than successful where I come from we deem that a smashing success.

If you are who you say you are you'd know this.

Who do you *think* I said I am?

Killing Bin Laden was the primary objective, but getting his lieutenants was a secondary objective, and Gates raised Hell over the lack of secrecy after the fact. Obama himself blew away any hopes for this.

Completely irrelevant since we're talking about the DURING not the after.

So do me a favor and STFU, Sir.

What reason and the absence of blind partisanship becoming too uncomfortable for you? I'd suggest looking into that since it will most often lead people to believe that you are incapable of dealing with different viewpoints in a rational manner.

Have a nice day.

 

[Borillar]

Ever played spades? It's a fun fuckin game

While our soldiers risked their lives he played spades.. Yep that is our president , He can care less about our military , that he outs the very people who took Bin Ladin down and then The TALIBAN targeted them and killed 33 of our guys.. doesnt surprise me much . He still plays golf as often as he can,goes on vacation every other week it seems.. At least Bush stopped playing Golf when we went to war... See the difference.. One president cares about the military the other can give a shit and it the one that cares is NOT OBLAMO ... He is too busy playing spades and golf on the day of the raid..

I heard he farted in the elevator too. And he once used a salad fork on an entree.

 

[mudwhistle]

Sorry but absent facts it's speculation, it might be "educated speculation" but it's speculation.


The President has a staff and he has a military chain of command that advise him in such matters, while I question the competence of much of the White House staff, I don't question the competence of our Senior Military Commanders (I admit I'm biased in that regard having served as both a line and a staff officer in the military).


That's of course your opinion, it becomes your prerogative only when you actually ARE in charge.

The bottom line is that with all the egregious nonsense this President has done and continues to do, trying to pick this pepper out of the fly excrement and hold it up as some sort of serious lapse of judgement is petty and counter-productive, especially since the mission in question was an unmitigated success.

Actually it wasn't. We lost a Top Secret stealth aircraft. The Intel found on the ground was rendered useless the moment Obama ran to the microphone.

The aircraft in question was destroyed by our own forces because it was damaged and the primary objective of the operation was Osama Bin Laden . The mission objective was achieved without loss of U.S. personnel, now while you may deem that as less than successful where I come from we deem that a smashing success.


Who do you *think* I said I am?

Killing Bin Laden was the primary objective, but getting his lieutenants was a secondary objective, and Gates raised Hell over the lack of secrecy after the fact. Obama himself blew away any hopes for this.

Completely irrelevant since we're talking about the DURING not the after.

So do me a favor and STFU, Sir.

What reason and the absence of blind partisanship becoming too uncomfortable for you? I'd suggest looking into that since it will most often lead people to believe that you are incapable of dealing with different viewpoints in a rational manner.

Have a nice day.

Pot meet kettle.

You and I both know Obama is a lousy leader. He keeps proving it. Your blind partisanship not withstanding.

The reason I said STFU is because you keep making lame assed excuses for him. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. If you want leadership from your president Obama isn't the right person.

I suppose it depends on your expectations of the office. These days expectations aren't very high.

 

[NightFox]

Actually it wasn't. We lost a Top Secret stealth aircraft. The Intel found on the ground was rendered useless the moment Obama ran to the microphone.

The aircraft in question was destroyed by our own forces because it was damaged and the primary objective of the operation was Osama Bin Laden . The mission objective was achieved without loss of U.S. personnel, now while you may deem that as less than successful where I come from we deem that a smashing success.


Who do you *think* I said I am?


Completely irrelevant since we're talking about the DURING not the after.

So do me a favor and STFU, Sir.

What reason and the absence of blind partisanship becoming too uncomfortable for you? I'd suggest looking into that since it will most often lead people to believe that you are incapable of dealing with different viewpoints in a rational manner.

Have a nice day.

You and I both know Obama is a lousy leader. He keeps proving it. Your blind partisanship not withstanding.

My blind partisanship? I don't belong to a political party, don't believe in 'em and yes I do believe President Obama is a "lousy leader" overall but not because of his actions during the execution of Neptune Spear.

The reason I said STFU is because you keep making lame assed excuses for him.

I never made any "excuses" for him, I arrived at my conclusion on the issue at hand using reason and the facts that I'm aware of sans any preconceived partisan agenda. As always I attempt to evaluate his actions or lack thereof based on the merits of the case, you should try it sometime as it may help you to avoid having to conclude your arguments with irrational outbursts like "STFU".

 

[OKTexas]

Hell, at least he stayed awake and didn't go to bed, you can give him that much.

 

[mudwhistle]

The aircraft in question was destroyed by our own forces because it was damaged and the primary objective of the operation was Osama Bin Laden . The mission objective was achieved without loss of U.S. personnel, now while you may deem that as less than successful where I come from we deem that a smashing success.


Who do you *think* I said I am?


Completely irrelevant since we're talking about the DURING not the after.


What reason and the absence of blind partisanship becoming too uncomfortable for you? I'd suggest looking into that since it will most often lead people to believe that you are incapable of dealing with different viewpoints in a rational manner.

Have a nice day.

You and I both know Obama is a lousy leader. He keeps proving it. Your blind partisanship not withstanding.

My blind partisanship? I don't belong to a political party, don't believe in 'em and yes I do believe President Obama is a "lousy leader" overall but not because of his actions during the execution of Neptune Spear.

The reason I said STFU is because you keep making lame assed excuses for him.

I never made any "excuses" for him, I arrived at my conclusion on the issue at hand using reason and the facts that I'm aware of sans any preconceived partisan agenda. As always I attempt to evaluate his actions or lack thereof based on the merits of the case, you should try it sometime as it may help you to avoid having to conclude your arguments with irrational outbursts like "STFU".

You base your views on preconceived notions, not on the issues at hand. You claim you used to be a staff officer yet you seem to think that everything that happened was above board. How many versions of the mission was there leaked to the press? A minimum of 27. Obama is so worried about details of Benghazi leaking out but no such security existed for the UBL raid. Other than actual photos of the body. He saw fit to practice good OPSEC during Benghazi but why not after the UBL raid? He had he situation room on NBC for fuck sake.

Oh, and if you don't like being told to STFU don't visit msg boards and try to pass off nonsense as facts. You actually expect me to believe that subordinates don't talk about poor leaders behind their backs in effect ruining morale in the unit. What kind unit did you serve in? Have you ever worked for a company or a business? Is lackluster leadership traits normal where you work?

Sorry, no need to answer that. I'm not interest in what a bullshit artist has to say anyway.

 

[NightFox]

You and I both know Obama is a lousy leader. He keeps proving it. Your blind partisanship not withstanding.

My blind partisanship? I don't belong to a political party, don't believe in 'em and yes I do believe President Obama is a "lousy leader" overall but not because of his actions during the execution of Neptune Spear.

The reason I said STFU is because you keep making lame assed excuses for him.

I never made any "excuses" for him, I arrived at my conclusion on the issue at hand using reason and the facts that I'm aware of sans any preconceived partisan agenda. As always I attempt to evaluate his actions or lack thereof based on the merits of the case, you should try it sometime as it may help you to avoid having to conclude your arguments with irrational outbursts like "STFU".

You base your views on preconceived notions, not on the issues at hand. You claim you used to be a staff officer yet you seem to think that everything that happened was above board.

... and you seem to think that everything that happened was NOT above board, my assumptions are based on my personal experience interacting with other military officers, where do yours come from?

How many versions of the mission was there leaked to the press? A minimum of 27. Obama is so worried about details of Benghazi leaking out but no such security existed for the UBL raid. Other than actual photos of the body. He saw fit to practice good OPSEC during Benghazi but why not after the UBL raid? He had he situation room on NBC for fuck sake.

Again with the non sequitur rants , try to focus on the topic at hand which is the Presidents actions DURING the execution of the mission.

Oh, and if you don't like being told to STFU don't visit msg boards

Your childish behavior doesn't bother me in the least bit, I was offering you the courtesy of pointing it out to you in the hopes you may be able to control yourself in the future for your own benefit. Apparently my hopes were in vain and you are bound and determined to come across as a child, thus you should not be surprised when others treat you like one.

and try to pass off nonsense as facts.

Yes I understand, it's nonsense because you could not offer any rational arguments to refute it and thus you keep have to jump from non sequitur to childishness and inane assumptions about my "partisanship" .......

You actually expect me to believe that subordinates don't talk about poor leaders behind their backs in effect ruining morale in the unit

Where did I say that ? You mean when I pointed out that your speculation was ACTUALLY SPECULATION? or do you operate under the delusion that everything that drips from your fingertips magically transforms into facts the minute it hits the wire?

. What kind unit did you serve in? Have you ever worked for a company or a business? Is lackluster leadership traits normal where you work?

That's the spirit, when faced with a reasoned argument you cannot counter, attempt to gin up some Ad Hominem...

Sorry, no need to answer that. I'm not interest in what a bullshit artist has to say anyway.

Yes retreat seems like your best course of action at this point....... buh-bye and have a nice day.

 

[Caroljo]

He just didn't want to watch a "brother" be killed.........

 

[Caroljo]

What I wonder....did he quickly sit in for that pictures so they could lie about him being there, or was it photo shopped?? Just shows what a lying piece of crap he is...and ALL of them!

 

[boilermaker55]

Come on now, you should know by now that rottieass loves complaining about anything from the democrats. If he couldn't piss all over himself about Obama he would have a stroke.
Let him have is little hissy fit

You guys have a weird definition of "bombshell".

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ever played spades? It's a fun fuckin game

Is dying a fun fuckin game?! Douchehose

Oh come on... that didn't get even a little laugh?

What part of playing cards while people were dying was funny? Answer the question you idiot.

 

[NoNukes]

Not sure where the 15% number comes from -- it's not in the poll. The Poll results say 6% ( ).

Just more idiot progressives lying, is all. And you believed it. Moron.

That is still bad. Look at how many right wingers thought we were fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11. During the 2004 election, the percentage who thought this was scary.

What's REALLY scary is the number of liberals who think Obama's doing a great job.

Low information voters are complicit in the fucking-up of this nation.

Pretty poor deflection, but what is expected of you.

 

[NoNukes]

Not sure where the 15% number comes from -- it's not in the poll. The Poll results say 6% ( ).

Just more idiot progressives lying, is all. And you believed it. Moron.

That is still bad. Look at how many right wingers thought we were fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11. During the 2004 election, the percentage who thought this was scary.

And how many leftwingers would sign a petition to allow abortions in the 4th trimester?

What does that have to do with what I said? You are really losing it.

 

[mudwhistle]

That is still bad. Look at how many right wingers thought we were fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11. During the 2004 election, the percentage who thought this was scary.

And how many leftwingers would sign a petition to allow abortions in the 4th trimester?

What does that have to do with what I said? You are really losing it.

For every example of stupidity you try to focus on from the right I can illustrate several examples from the left. That's what it has to do wit it.

 

[daveman]

That is still bad. Look at how many right wingers thought we were fighting in Iraq because they attacked us on 9/11. During the 2004 election, the percentage who thought this was scary.

What's REALLY scary is the number of liberals who think Obama's doing a great job.

Low information voters are complicit in the fucking-up of this nation.

Seems every day more and more liberals are coming out against Obama.

Anyone with any grey matter between their ears is worried about what's going on in Washington while Obama fucks off day in and day out.

Liberals, Obama at Odds Over NSA Programs - US News and World Report

And the only thing USMB libs criticize him for is not being far enough to the left.