Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[Rigby5]

One loophole is that the wealthy can pay themselves in stock options instead of cash

If they get paid $1,000,000 in stock options, they owe income taxes on $1,000,000.
How is that a loophole?

then went they sell, that profit is taxed at the 15 or 20% capital gains rate

Yes, the wealthy pay a 15% or 20% capital gains tax rate. Just like you, me or the poor would pay.

Then after 5 years when you have used up most of the depreciation allowance, you can do a 1031 exchange with another landlord

How does the 1031 get your capital gain out of your property?

The wealthy then in general are not paying very much in taxes.

Not very much? Can you be more specific?

Come on, you have to start reading better than that.
I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.
They can hide ALL their salary and profits under these low taxed stock options.
You and I do not have the ability to pay ourselves in stock options.
You have to be on the board of directors or high up, to be able to do that.

With the 1031 exchange, the point is you have used up most of your accelerated depreciation, but by exchanging with another landlord for property of equal value, you get to start over again with full tax depreciation allowance, without having to pay back the previous depreciation you already claimed.
Normally you have to pay back what you hid with depreciation when you sell. But not with a 1031 exchange. Your previous depreciation disappears and you get to start over.

When I was poor, I was still always paying a lot of taxes, because my rent included property tax, I could not itemize, etc.
Something like 15 or 20%.
As I made more money, my tax rate increased up to 35% or so, but then I was able to start doing things to decrease my tax burden, like buying rental properties, with lots of write offs.
My tax burden dropped back down to 15 to 20% or less.
Now that I have retired, I pay no taxes, even though I have a good income from rentals and SS.

 

[Rigby5]

There is no point is looking for the actual case again.

Because you've admitted your error?

All browsers are free now because MS screwed up the market so badly.

They were guilty of dumping, because they've been giving away their browser......forever.

So they won't be hiking the price and making unfair profits anytime soon? LOL!!!

If I were owned by China, why would I be warning people about China unfair business practices?

Because your stupidity (lies?) makes the anti-China case look bad.

So the conclusion about WalMart dumping is a foregone conclusion.

You're lying, again.

I don't have to give specifics when the odds are that high.

Proof, such an old-fashioned concept.

Wrong.
The judgement against Microsoft proves I am right.

The internet provided so much advertising revenue, that browsers found alternative income sources to actually selling their product.
That does not mean Microsoft was not illegally dumping and tried to destroy the competition unfairly.

Anyone who claims China is not dumping, obviously has to be lying.
It has been well documented.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.

Yes, your ignorance was very clear.
If I pay myself in stock options, I pay income tax on the value of those options
at the time they are issued. Capital gains come later, if at all. Your misunderstanding
of how that actually works is obvious.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Come on, you have to start reading better than that.
I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.
They can hide ALL their salary and profits under these low taxed stock options.
You and I do not have the ability to pay ourselves in stock options.
You have to be on the board of directors or high up, to be able to do that.

With the 1031 exchange, the point is you have used up most of your accelerated depreciation, but by exchanging with another landlord for property of equal value, you get to start over again with full tax depreciation allowance, without having to pay back the previous depreciation you already claimed.
Normally you have to pay back what you hid with depreciation when you sell. But not with a 1031 exchange. Your previous depreciation disappears and you get to start over.

When I was poor, I was still always paying a lot of taxes, because my rent included property tax, I could not itemize, etc.
Something like 15 or 20%.
As I made more money, my tax rate increased up to 35% or so, but then I was able to start doing things to decrease my tax burden, like buying rental properties, with lots of write offs.
My tax burden dropped back down to 15 to 20% or less.
Now that I have retired, I pay no taxes, even though I have a good income from rentals and SS.

They can hide ALL their salary and profits under these low taxed stock options.

Wrong.

With the 1031 exchange, the point is you have used up most of your accelerated depreciation, but by exchanging with another landlord for property of equal value, you get to start over again with full tax depreciation allowance, without having to pay back the previous depreciation you already claimed.

And what happens when you eventually realize a gain?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong.
The judgement against Microsoft proves I am right.

The internet provided so much advertising revenue, that browsers found alternative income sources to actually selling their product.
That does not mean Microsoft was not illegally dumping and tried to destroy the competition unfairly.

Anyone who claims China is not dumping, obviously has to be lying.
It has been well documented.

The judgement against Microsoft proves I am right.

Post the judgement. Does it mention dumping?

Anyone who claims China is not dumping, obviously has to be lying.

Why are you talking about China? You claimed Walmart dumped.
You claimed Walmart had illegal low prices.

Prove those claims. Stop trying to change the subject.

 

[Rigby5]

Yes, your ignorance was very clear.
If I pay myself in stock options, I pay income tax on the value of those options
at the time they are issued. Capital gains come later, if at all. Your misunderstanding
of how that actually works is obvious.

Wrong.
Stock options have zero value until they are sold.
You are not taxed anything when given stock options.

 

[Rigby5]

They can hide ALL their salary and profits under these low taxed stock options.

Wrong.

With the 1031 exchange, the point is you have used up most of your accelerated depreciation, but by exchanging with another landlord for property of equal value, you get to start over again with full tax depreciation allowance, without having to pay back the previous depreciation you already claimed.

And what happens when you eventually realize a gain?

Since real estate always eventually goes up, you do always eventually have a taxed gain when you finally sell, but that is not the point.
The point is poor people do not get this inherent and unearned gain because they can't afford the down payment, and get none of these profits or tax write offs.
You never have to pay back depreciation allowance on 1031 exchange property history.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong.
Stock options have zero value until they are sold.
You are not taxed anything when given stock options.

Stock options have zero value until they are sold.

Wow!

You're an idiot.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Since real estate always eventually goes up, you do always eventually have a taxed gain when you finally sell, but that is not the point.
The point is poor people do not get this inherent and unearned gain because they can't afford the down payment, and get none of these profits or tax write offs.
You never have to pay back depreciation allowance on 1031 exchange property history.

Since real estate always eventually goes up, you do always eventually have a taxed gain when you finally sell, but that is not the point.

Paying tax on a gain is the point.

You never have to pay back depreciation allowance on 1031 exchange property history.

Prove it.

 

[Rigby5]

The judgement against Microsoft proves I am right.

Post the judgement. Does it mention dumping?

Anyone who claims China is not dumping, obviously has to be lying.

Why are you talking about China? You claimed Walmart dumped.
You claimed Walmart had illegal low prices.

Prove those claims. Stop trying to change the subject.

You really are not paying any attention.
At least one of the articles I linked explained how most US companies, like Levi, as been forced to become an empty shill for China, due to China dumping products so cheaply. Obviously WalMart does not make products, so can't be doing it itself, but can facilitate it by fronting Chinese products that are dumping.
Now do you get it?

Obviously if Chinese dumping was easy to prove, then the SEC would be prosecuting.
But clearly everyone knows they are.
Only a fool would try to claim they are not.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You really are not paying any attention.
At least one of the articles I linked explained how most US companies, like Levi, as been forced to become an empty shill for China, due to China dumping products so cheaply. Obviously WalMart does not make products, so can't be doing it itself, but can facilitate it by fronting Chinese products that are dumping.
Now do you get it?

Obviously if Chinese dumping was easy to prove, then the SEC would be prosecuting.
But clearly everyone knows they are.
Only a fool would try to claim they are not.

At least one of the articles I linked explained how most US companies, like Levi, as been forced to become an empty shill for China, due to China dumping products so cheaply.

In this discussion, I don't give a shit if China is dumping.
You said Walmart was dumping. You said Walmart had illegal low prices.
So prove it already.

Obviously if Chinese dumping was easy to prove, then the SEC would be prosecuting.

You can't show proof that China is dumping, does that mean you'll never prove Walmart is? LOL!

 

[Rigby5]

Stock options have zero value until they are sold.

Wow!

You're an idiot.

You do not pay tax when you get stock options.
I have been given stock options, and they do not have any value or tax hit when you get them.
All stock options are is the locked in price for if and when you do later decide to buy stock.
If the stock goes down or under, then the options were never of any value, so you could never have been taxed on them.
Just use a real world example.
The company stock is at $10 and you are given the options to buy a hundred shares at $10.
These is no immediate value to that.
It is only if after a year and the stock has gone up, that you can then exercise those options and make a profits.
If the stock doubles then you can make a huge profit.
But regardless of how much you make, you only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate.
The value of options depends on the future of the company, like Apple stock went from $1.50 to $150 in about a decade.
(it is still only about $150, but that is because it split many times.)

 

[dblack]

The wealthy are not floating everyone.

Call it whatever you like. But the whole "from each according to ability" thing just seems naive. People don't like being used. They'll push back.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Come on, you have to start reading better than that.
I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.
They can hide ALL their salary and profits under these low taxed stock options.
You and I do not have the ability to pay ourselves in stock options.
You have to be on the board of directors or high up, to be able to do that.

With the 1031 exchange, the point is you have used up most of your accelerated depreciation, but by exchanging with another landlord for property of equal value, you get to start over again with full tax depreciation allowance, without having to pay back the previous depreciation you already claimed.
Normally you have to pay back what you hid with depreciation when you sell. But not with a 1031 exchange. Your previous depreciation disappears and you get to start over.

When I was poor, I was still always paying a lot of taxes, because my rent included property tax, I could not itemize, etc.
Something like 15 or 20%.
As I made more money, my tax rate increased up to 35% or so, but then I was able to start doing things to decrease my tax burden, like buying rental properties, with lots of write offs.
My tax burden dropped back down to 15 to 20% or less.
Now that I have retired, I pay no taxes, even though I have a good income from rentals and SS.

I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.

Nope.

No matter the results of the poll, Musk would have likely started selling millions of shares this quarter. The reason: a looming tax bill of more than $15 billion.

Musk was awarded options in 2012 as part of a compensation plan. Because he doesn’t take a salary or cash bonus, his wealth comes from stock awards and the gains in Tesla’s share price. The 2012 award was for 22.8 million shares at a strike price of $6.24 per share. Tesla shares closed at $1,222.09 on Friday, meaning his gain on the shares totals just under $28 billion.

Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock

Elon Musk faces a tax bill of over $15 billion in the coming months on stock options, making a sale of Tesla stock this year likely regardless of the Twitter vote.

www.cnbc.com

$15 billion taxes on a $28 billion gain is not 15% or 20%.

 

[Rigby5]

Call it whatever you like. But the whole "from each according to ability" thing just seems naive. People don't like being used. They'll push back.

The wealthy are the ones who are getting the most out of the system, so then why should they not be paying the most into the system?
There is very little welfare.
Almost all taxes are going to infrastructure improvements the wealthy want and benefit from.

This even is true for foreign aid.
A lot of foreign aid is actually to bring roads and electricity to regions where companies like Coca Cola wants to build a bottling plant.

 

[Rigby5]

I was very clear in explaining that even if they are in a 40% tax bracket normally, when they pay themselves in stock options, then they do not pay 40% tax on that profit, but instead only pay the 15 or 20% capital gains rate instead.

Nope.

No matter the results of the poll, Musk would have likely started selling millions of shares this quarter. The reason: a looming tax bill of more than $15 billion.

Musk was awarded options in 2012 as part of a compensation plan. Because he doesn’t take a salary or cash bonus, his wealth comes from stock awards and the gains in Tesla’s share price. The 2012 award was for 22.8 million shares at a strike price of $6.24 per share. Tesla shares closed at $1,222.09 on Friday, meaning his gain on the shares totals just under $28 billion.

Elon Musk faces a $15 billion tax bill, which is likely the real reason he's selling stock

Elon Musk faces a tax bill of over $15 billion in the coming months on stock options, making a sale of Tesla stock this year likely regardless of the Twitter vote.

www.cnbc.com

$15 billion taxes on a $28 billion gain is not 15% or 20%.

Most likely the journalist simply got the numbers wrong.
Why do you think Musk would have paid himself in stock options if not for the lower tax rate?
Does the journalist get to be paid in stock options?
Of course not, so then the journalist does not really know how it works.

Musk is about to become the first trillionaire.
If a person is making that much money, then what is the a measly $15 billion?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Most likely the journalist simply got the numbers wrong.
Why do you think Musk would have paid himself in stock options if not for the lower tax rate?
Does the journalist get to be paid in stock options?
Of course not, so then the journalist does not really know how it works.

Musk is about to become the first trillionaire.
If a person is making that much money, then what is the a measly $15 billion?

Most likely the journalist simply got the numbers wrong.

So find a journalist who got it right.

Why do you think Musk would have paid himself in stock options if not for the lower tax rate?

Tesla didn't have the cash to pay him that much. Still doesn't.

If a person is making that much money, then what is the a measly $15 billion?

Over 50%, not 20%.

 

[Rigby5]

Most likely the journalist simply got the numbers wrong.

So find a journalist who got it right.

Why do you think Musk would have paid himself in stock options if not for the lower tax rate?

Tesla didn't have the cash to pay him that much. Still doesn't.

If a person is making that much money, then what is the a measly $15 billion?

Over 50%, not 20%.

So you don't think he has any other sources of income other than the stock options he was paid 9 years ago?
Why do you think Musk is talking about ending world hunger?
Charity is a common tax write off.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So you don't think he has any other sources of income other than the stock options he was paid 9 years ago?
Why do you think Musk is talking about ending world hunger?
Charity is a common tax write off.

So you don't think he has any other sources of income other than the stock options he was paid 9 years ago?

He had other sources, just not from Tesla.

Why do you think Musk is talking about ending world hunger?

Some moron from the UN made a stupid claim.

Charity is a common tax write off.

Yup. And?

 

[kaz]

actually most taxesare paid when you spend a dollar 90 percent of every dollar covers the taxes put on retail outlets if you spend you pay taxes and a lot of taxes

You're right on the part that whatever taxes are paid by companies and most of the taxes paid by the rich are in items you buy, but the rest of that was unintelligible gibberish, Cowboy