Capitalism seen doing 'more harm than good' in global survey

[daveman]

So what's to be done? I see you're against a lot of things.

Are you actually for anything?

I'd love if we actually operated under capitalism.

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

 

[pknopp]

I'd love if we actually operated under capitalism.

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

You want to abolish corporations?

Rabbit hole. Not interested.

 

[bripat9643]

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

You want to abolish corporations?

Rabbit hole. Not interested.

I'll take that as a "yes."

 

[pknopp]

I'd love if we actually operated under capitalism.

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

 

[bripat9643]

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

Who supports that, other than people who support Social Security, that is?

 

[gipper]

It isn't always true.

Proposed Senatobia roundabout may force businesses to close

You only discuss vast generalizations, not the reality.

I keep on providing examples and you keep on using the excuse that you do not support that. It's irrelevant if you support it or not. It is what we do in the name of "capitalism" and there is nothing capitalistic about it.

But we're not doing that in the 'name of capitalism'.

What a dumb thing to say. Really? So Obama stood up there and said "In the name of Capitalism, I'm using tax money to bailout GM, and sell it to the Unions, for their political support!"

Do you realize how incompetent that sounds? Who did that? No one. Not a single person.

When Clinton sent Andrew Cuomo to sue banks to force them to make bad sub-prime loans... was he saying "In the name of Capitalism, we're going to dictate what loans banks make!"? Of course not.

What dumb comment.

Internet poster "Government did this!"

Me " That's not capitalism, and Capitalist like me oppose it"

Internet poster "you are making excuses!"

What?? Your arguments are dumb sir. Really dumb.

You only discuss vast generalizations, not the reality.

Basing your entire argument on the exceptions, is bad logic.
Life is not defined by the exceptions.

This is like claiming that the entire Soviet Union was Capitalist... because a few dozen farms were in fact privately owned for profit businesses. The massive socialized farms in the USSR, were failing so bad, that even Stalin allowed a small collection of private for-profit capitalist farms.

It's a ridiculous claim. The soviet union was socialized. They had a few splatterings of capitalism, but they were very much socialized.

The US is a capitalist based economy. We have a few splatterings of socialism, and we fight against them. But we are capitalist in nature by any possible measure.

If those running the economy are not running it under capitalism, we are not a capitalistic nation.

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

 

[daveman]

So which candidates are you supporting?

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

A person's life savings being confiscated by the government affects only a few people.

A company being shut down due to malign government policies affects many.

Why do you think one is bad, but one is good?

 

[bripat9643]

But we're not doing that in the 'name of capitalism'.

What a dumb thing to say. Really? So Obama stood up there and said "In the name of Capitalism, I'm using tax money to bailout GM, and sell it to the Unions, for their political support!"

Do you realize how incompetent that sounds? Who did that? No one. Not a single person.

When Clinton sent Andrew Cuomo to sue banks to force them to make bad sub-prime loans... was he saying "In the name of Capitalism, we're going to dictate what loans banks make!"? Of course not.

What dumb comment.

Internet poster "Government did this!"

Me " That's not capitalism, and Capitalist like me oppose it"

Internet poster "you are making excuses!"

What?? Your arguments are dumb sir. Really dumb.

You only discuss vast generalizations, not the reality.

Basing your entire argument on the exceptions, is bad logic.
Life is not defined by the exceptions.

This is like claiming that the entire Soviet Union was Capitalist... because a few dozen farms were in fact privately owned for profit businesses. The massive socialized farms in the USSR, were failing so bad, that even Stalin allowed a small collection of private for-profit capitalist farms.

It's a ridiculous claim. The soviet union was socialized. They had a few splatterings of capitalism, but they were very much socialized.

The US is a capitalist based economy. We have a few splatterings of socialism, and we fight against them. But we are capitalist in nature by any possible measure.

If those running the economy are not running it under capitalism, we are not a capitalistic nation.

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

ROFL! They certainly do not. They pay $billions in extortion to politicians every year.

 

[daveman]

But we're not doing that in the 'name of capitalism'.

What a dumb thing to say. Really? So Obama stood up there and said "In the name of Capitalism, I'm using tax money to bailout GM, and sell it to the Unions, for their political support!"

Do you realize how incompetent that sounds? Who did that? No one. Not a single person.

When Clinton sent Andrew Cuomo to sue banks to force them to make bad sub-prime loans... was he saying "In the name of Capitalism, we're going to dictate what loans banks make!"? Of course not.

What dumb comment.

Internet poster "Government did this!"

Me " That's not capitalism, and Capitalist like me oppose it"

Internet poster "you are making excuses!"

What?? Your arguments are dumb sir. Really dumb.

You only discuss vast generalizations, not the reality.

Basing your entire argument on the exceptions, is bad logic.
Life is not defined by the exceptions.

This is like claiming that the entire Soviet Union was Capitalist... because a few dozen farms were in fact privately owned for profit businesses. The massive socialized farms in the USSR, were failing so bad, that even Stalin allowed a small collection of private for-profit capitalist farms.

It's a ridiculous claim. The soviet union was socialized. They had a few splatterings of capitalism, but they were very much socialized.

The US is a capitalist based economy. We have a few splatterings of socialism, and we fight against them. But we are capitalist in nature by any possible measure.

If those running the economy are not running it under capitalism, we are not a capitalistic nation.

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

 

[gipper]

If those running the economy are not running it under capitalism, we are not a capitalistic nation.

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

I have never voted D for potus. Though I’m not proud of this, since both parties are pretty much the same. Actually I’m ashamed of some of the asshole Rs I’ve voted for.

I don’t vote any more but if Bernie gets the nomination, I might.

I was a dumb con once, like you. I learned long ago it’s all a scam. When will you?

 

[daveman]

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

I have never voted D for potus. Though I’m not proud of this, since both parties are pretty much the same. Actually I’m ashamed of some of the asshole Rs I’ve voted for.

I don’t vote any more but if Bernie gets the nomination, I might.

I was a dumb con once, like you. I learned long ago it’s all a scam. When will you?

Vote. Don't vote. Nobody gives a shit what makes you feel superior. You'll still impotently bitch on the internet either way.

 

[gipper]

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

I have never voted D for potus. Though I’m not proud of this, since both parties are pretty much the same. Actually I’m ashamed of some of the asshole Rs I’ve voted for.

I don’t vote any more but if Bernie gets the nomination, I might.

I was a dumb con once, like you. I learned long ago it’s all a scam. When will you?

Vote. Don't vote. Nobody gives a shit what makes you feel superior. You'll still impotently bitch on the internet either way.

I’m certainly superior to you. Thanks for understanding.

 

[gipper]

If those running the economy are not running it under capitalism, we are not a capitalistic nation.

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

ROFL! They certainly do not. They pay $billions in extortion to politicians every year.

Lol. That’s what I mean. They buy the politicians who do their bidding. Do you have the money to buy politicians?

 

[pknopp]

Hopefully Sanders. I've covered this many times. If we want to quit with the bail outs, with the huge subsidies the Federal Reserve is providing for wall street, I would agree we need to quit helping the poor like we do. As long as the system is stacked against the poor I'm going to vote to level that out.

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

A person's life savings being confiscated by the government affects only a few people.

A company being shut down due to malign government policies affects many.

Why do you think one is bad, but one is good?

Rabbit hole. If you want to address what I say, great. You don't get to make an argument up for me and then argue against that.

 

[daveman]

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

I have never voted D for potus. Though I’m not proud of this, since both parties are pretty much the same. Actually I’m ashamed of some of the asshole Rs I’ve voted for.

I don’t vote any more but if Bernie gets the nomination, I might.

I was a dumb con once, like you. I learned long ago it’s all a scam. When will you?

Vote. Don't vote. Nobody gives a shit what makes you feel superior. You'll still impotently bitch on the internet either way.

I’m certainly superior to you. Thanks for understanding.

Oh, I understand, all right. I understand you're just a pompous blowhard.

 

[daveman]

So, instead of bailing out companies -- you want to bail out individuals.

Sanders' socialism punishes capitalism.

You need to think about this more. A lot more.

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

A person's life savings being confiscated by the government affects only a few people.

A company being shut down due to malign government policies affects many.

Why do you think one is bad, but one is good?

Rabbit hole. If you want to address what I say, great. You don't get to make an argument up for me and then argue against that.

That is what you said. Chickenshit.

 

[pknopp]

No, I want to not have to bail out anyone but you understand my argument. Sanders can not punish what does not exist.

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

A person's life savings being confiscated by the government affects only a few people.

A company being shut down due to malign government policies affects many.

Why do you think one is bad, but one is good?

Rabbit hole. If you want to address what I say, great. You don't get to make an argument up for me and then argue against that.

That is what you said. Chickenshit.

I never once mentioned shutting anything down (outside of bail outs and the socialist policies of the Fed).

 

[bripat9643]

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

You just make sure you vote for one of the wealthy Democrats as you're told.

I have never voted D for potus. Though I’m not proud of this, since both parties are pretty much the same. Actually I’m ashamed of some of the asshole Rs I’ve voted for.

I don’t vote any more but if Bernie gets the nomination, I might.

I was a dumb con once, like you. I learned long ago it’s all a scam. When will you?

If you vote for Bernie, then you're a king sized sucker.

 

[bripat9643]

Regardless of what you label it, or refuse to label it, there are undeniably successful companies in America.

Sanders wants to punish them for being successful.

That's profoundly stupid.

No worse than punishing people for saving their entire lives.

A person's life savings being confiscated by the government affects only a few people.

A company being shut down due to malign government policies affects many.

Why do you think one is bad, but one is good?

Rabbit hole. If you want to address what I say, great. You don't get to make an argument up for me and then argue against that.

That is what you said. Chickenshit.

I never once mentioned shutting anything down (outside of bail outs and the socialist policies of the Fed).

I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I would go further. I would abolish the Fed altogether.

 

[bripat9643]

Since when is a capitalist economy "run" by anyone?

If I start selling a product tomorrow.... who "ran" that? No one. No one makes the economy work.

In a true socialized system, like the Soviet Union, then someone is running the economy... .which is why the economy failed.

The Federal Reserve can't make you or me, go and buy something, nor can it make you or me be productive and sell something. The government can do very little to "run" anything in the capitalist economy.

The areas that are socialized, Banking and HealthCare, are the areas that have problems, just like any other socialized system.

We are still generally Capitalist. You keep cherry picking the few examples of Socialism. And I agree, and oppose all those examples.

But how many companies are we talking about? A few dozen at best.

Even within the banking system.... there are a half dozen banks that are directly involved in the government controlled aspects.... the rest are not involved in any of that. Just in my area of Columbus Ohio, there are 20 local independent banks, that are not doing anything with the Fed.

But over all, throughout this entire economy, for every one company involved with government bailouts or contracts, or anything, there are a thousand companies that are not.

It is just flat out ridiculous to focus on one tiny sliver of the economy, and proclaim the entire economy isn't capitalist anymore.

I found this great column just for you. Please read. Can you refute it?

The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It?
Elites have ruled over people and commanded the surplus produced by their labor for many millennia. It is this long history we have to contend with in today’s crisis of capitalism that has produced endless wars and environmental catastrophes as corporate billionaire rulers continue to promote business as usual while preparing to fight each other with armed forces and nuclear weapons. This has all been “normalized.” Concentrated elite power ends up massively distorting people’s understanding of the nature of big business rule. Their highly paid spokes people even shamelessly deploy concepts like “freedom” and “liberty” to rationalize the enslaving and killing of millions for profits in resource wars. But we also need to understand that despite this long reign of (t)error, human beings lived for most of their evolutionary history (a much longer period of time than that during which elites have ruled) in nomadic hunter-gatherer societies where life conditions produced a rough equality among the Paleolithic family groups. If there was anything that could be called freedom here, it was a consequence of a primitive subsistence level that demanded participation from all in obtaining the means of survival while providing minimal incentives for large-scale social conflicts. Cooperation was primary; it is what made human societies — not competition. These conditions also kept the human populations low and in balance with available resources, while as some anthropologists speculate (see Marshall Sahlins), providing significant amounts of free time for cultivating social ties.

We also need to understand that anyone trying to change things for the benefit of the masses of the people – even when they try to play within the rules set by big business — will be the targets of endless media efforts to demonize and disqualify them.
The Long History of Elite Rule: What Will It Take To End It? - CounterPunch.org

"Big business rule?" What a joke. Business has never ruled anything. Big business has only manage to emerge because the power of political rule has been reduced. When politicians have control over your means of survival, you can depend on them taking the biggest share for themselves. Business can only become big by serving the consumer.

What a surprise that you would ridicule concepts like freedom and liberty. That's what tyrants have always done.

Counter Punch is a Marxist publication, BTW. What a surprise that you would quote it.

Big business sure does rule the country, since they control the federal government.

ROFL! They certainly do not. They pay $billions in extortion to politicians every year.

Lol. That’s what I mean. They buy the politicians who do their bidding. Do you have the money to buy politicians?

In other words politicians extort money from them. Who has more power, the perpetrator of extortion, or the victim?