CDC: Accidental car deaths 2013...35,369. Accidental gun deaths 2013...505.

[2aguy]

On gun sales....

What The Left Won t Tell You About The Boom In U.S. Gun Sales - Forbes


But the thing is the surge is gun sales didn’t begin in 2008. Over the last 10 years (from 2002 to 2011) there has been a 54.1 percent rise in the number of NICS checks and the increase hasn’t all taken place since 2008. In 2005 there were 8,952,945 NICS checks. In 2006 the number topped 10 million. In 2007 NICS checks pushed passed 11 million. In 2008 NICS checks passed 12 million, and then hit the 14 million mark in 2009. They increased slightly (4 percent) through 2011.

So attributing this entire trend to President Obama’s anti-gun reputation is disingenuous, yet many in the media like this explanation because by saying the increase in gun sales is only about President Obama they can then write the whole thing off as a simple-minded fear from those who “cling to guns and religion.”

To understand what’s really going on, let’s start with some sales figures.

 

[Missourian]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

P.S. you can now download that gif from wikipedia.

Gif courtesy of Wikipedia Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Brain357]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

 

[2aguy]

And...

Other Gallup polls are even more interesting. The number of women gun owners in America has gone up from 13 percent in 2005 to 23 percent today. Also, the number of Democratic households with firearms in their homes skyrocketed from 30 percent in 2009 to 40 percent today.

 

[Brain357]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

Crime rates have been going down for 30 years. That has nothing to do with concealed carry.

 

[rightwinger]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

P.S. you can now download that gif from wikipedia.

Gif courtesy of Wikipedia Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Does nothing to prove you point

Try again

 

[2aguy]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

comitting suicide doesn't count because method will change when one method is taken away..as per Japan, South Korea and many other countries with strict controls on guns..........

gun accidental deaths.....2013.....505.....

 

[2aguy]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

Crime rates have been going down for 30 years. That has nothing to do with concealed carry.

actual studies on the subject say you are wrong....

 

[2aguy]

You like indirect ways of doing things...here is an article that points to studies that show concealed carry helps lower crime rates...

Correcting the record on David Hemenway s claim that academics support gun control - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org

Gary Mauser, a professor who specializes in polling at Canada’s Simon Fraser University, conducted it for the crime Prevention Research Center. Mauser surveyed 53 economists who published in the area over the last 15 years. Among the questions: an overwhelming number — 83 percent — noted guns are more likely to be used in self-defense than in crime. Further, 74 percent said concealed handgun laws reduce murder

 

[Missourian]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

P.S. you can now download that gif from wikipedia.

Gif courtesy of Wikipedia Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Does nothing to prove you point

Try again

More proof than you provided for your "end of the crack wars" theory.

 

[2aguy]

And a link to actual studies on concealed carry and lower crime rates...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Yet, as Carlisle Moody and his co-authors recently summarized the literature:

There have been a total of 29 peer reviewed studies by econ- omists and criminologists, 18 supporting the hypothesis that shall-issue laws reduce crime, 10 not finding any significant effect on crime, including the NRC report, and [Aneja, Do- nohue, and Zhang]’s paper, using a different model and dif- ferent data, finding that right-to-carry laws temporarily in- crease one type of violent crime, aggravated assaults.8

Similarly, the only academic research examining the impact of con- cealed handgun laws on accidental gun deaths or suicides finds no re- lationship.9

If right-to-carry laws either reduce crime or leave it unchanged and if no one argues that they lead to more accidental gun deaths or suicides, regulations prohibiting people from carrying concealed handguns cannot withstand either strict or intermediate scrutiny.

 

[HUGGY]

...so, in other words, guns are good, since they are so much more efficient and user friendly than other means of suicide....?

Suicides are usually the "out" for a coward. Sometimes I suppose pain can be horrible enough to outweigh living and yes the bullet shot in the right place can end life instantly. Unfortunately there is no relief offered at least none that they will enjoy. People who jump are mostly feeling sorry for themselves or see no reason to go on living. People that run their mouths or do something treacherous and get thrown from high places don't count as suicides. They are just stupid. People that shoot themselves indoors are thoughtless a-holes unless they are confined to a bed and must leave a mess behind. I once got some real strong LSD from a friend that had worked at the morgue. The guy that owned it took some then drove his corvette straight into a light pole. It was really good acid. Proof that guns are not bad. The same gun that takes an unfortunate innocent victim's life could just as easily save a robbery victim's life.

 

[2aguy]

And more on concealed carry laws....

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

 

[2aguy]

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

 

[2aguy]

One of the above papers and what they found analyzing county by county data....following Lott's method as opposed to just cherry picking certain counties......

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî

Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between approximately $2 billion and $3 billion per year.

Ayres and Donohue have simply misread their own results. Their own most general specification that breaks down the impact of the law on a year-by- year basis shows large crime-reducing benefits. Virtually none of their claims that their county-level hybrid model implies initial significant increases in crime are correct. Overall, the vast majority of their estimatesóbased on data up to 1997óactually demonstrate that right-to-carry laws produce substantial crime-reducing benefits. We show that their models also do an extremely poor job of predicting the changes in crime rates after 1997.

 

[Vandalshandle]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

What is the weather like in your alternative universe? I mean, if you were talking about a tazer, that would be different....

 

[Missourian]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

 

[Brain357]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

comitting suicide doesn't count because method will change when one method is taken away..as per Japan, South Korea and many other countries with strict controls on guns..........

gun accidental deaths.....2013.....505.....

No if you are claiming it is supposed to keep the owner safe then we have to look at how effective it is. Since the gun is by far used most to kill the owner your claim is false.

 

[rightwinger]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

comitting suicide doesn't count because method will change when one method is taken away..as per Japan, South Korea and many other countries with strict controls on guns..........

gun accidental deaths.....2013.....505.....

You have no proof of that

One thing we do know is that a gun suicide is instantaneous. A millisecond after you decide to pull the trigger, you are dead
No room for changing your mind

 

[rightwinger]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

P.S. you can now download that gif from wikipedia.

Gif courtesy of Wikipedia Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Does nothing to prove you point

Try again

More proof than you provided for your "end of the crack wars" theory.

Concealed carry?

Don't make me laugh