CDC: Accidental car deaths 2013...35,369. Accidental gun deaths 2013...505.

[Brain357]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.

 

[Brain357]

Gun homicides are down nationwide over the last twenty years whether there are tight gun laws or no gun laws

Has more to do with the end of the crack wars of the 90s than any legislation

Of course, that's got to be it

View attachment 40767

Crime rates have been going down for 30 years. That has nothing to do with concealed carry.

actual studies on the subject say you are wrong....

Sure they do.

 

[Missourian]

Actually, I think the people in Iraq and Afghanistan are willing to give up their lives and their families for a cause

Redneck gun nuts just have erotic gun fantasies

I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'll link to it here.

I have guns, and if I never have use them against another human being, I will die a happy man.

And deterrent, the majority of legal gun use never requires discharging the weapon.

Mass shooting in Chicago - 13 shot US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

This is from January 2013...quoted in its entirety...

Missourian said:

As a good faith gesture, I will answer this third off topic reply.

In return, please take a stab at my OP instead of repeatedly attempting to derail my thread.

I don't want to point a gun at anyone, ever, as long as I live.

I may someday be FORCED to do so to defend myself, my loved ones or even a complete stranger like you from death or grievous injury.

And in my minds eye, even under those circumstances, I do not relish the thought of being responsible for the death of another human being, even if it was self defense or the protection of an innocent person.

That's still someones child, and I will be the instrument that inflicts that pain on their innocent family and friends.

I've given this scenario much deliberation...I carry a firearm...and before that I was a soldier during the Cold-War who could have been called upon to kill to defend my country.

FTR I will die a happy man if I am never ever put in a position that I am forced to use a firearm against another human being.

So why do oppose a ban on Semi-automatic rifles?

Because I understand the axiom "Power Corrupts".

As the government becomes more and more powerful and centralized, the more corrupt it becomes.

Do I think it is a certainty that our government will become oppressive?

Not at all.

But I do see the POSSIBILITY that it could, someday in the future.

And to forestall that possibility, the founders gave us an uninfringable amendment, one that keeps, if not an equal power, a power that is formidable, to keep that oppressive nature of government in check...and every attempt to chip away that right lessens it's effectiveness...maybe someday to the point that a future corrupt government believes it is a manageable power.

The left mocks your desire to protect.... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

 

[Brain357]

And more on concealed carry laws....

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Chicago and wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up.

 

[Missourian]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.

Safe from others.

If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.

Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.

When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.

It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.

 

[2aguy]

And again...the purpose of a gun is not to kill. The purpose of a gun is to save the life of the individual using it....since most cases of self defense with a gun in the United States don't even require that the gun be fired......the criminal is driven off without a shot fired, no one injured or killed........

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

comitting suicide doesn't count because method will change when one method is taken away..as per Japan, South Korea and many other countries with strict controls on guns..........

gun accidental deaths.....2013.....505.....

You have no proof of that

One thing we do know is that a gun suicide is instantaneous. A millisecond after you decide to pull the trigger, you are dead
No room for changing your mind

as is the Japanese way of jumping in front of a train a millisecond after you leave the platform you are dead...I have seen a person get hit by a train.....there is no coming back.....and it leaves a much bigger mess....more body parts all over the place.....

 

[2aguy]

And more on concealed carry laws....

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Chicago and wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up.

Just started...come back in a few years......and it is up in Chicago and Milwaukee, two places actively resisting concealed carry.......the rest of those states also got concealed carry and are just fine....

 

[2aguy]

My mother worked for a telemarketing company in the 90s....one of the girls she knew was dumped by her boyfriend....she decided to kill herself...she drove to an abandoned parking lot, took a can of gas and emptied it over herself and the interior of her car and lit a match......there was no going back after the match was struck....she wrote to her family...and also sent a note to her co workers....she said she used fire because she did not want to be stopped, and she didn't want to chicken out....

 

[Brain357]

And more on concealed carry laws....

Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Chicago and wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up.

Just started...come back in a few years......and it is up in Chicago and Milwaukee, two places actively resisting concealed carry.......

Yes you will wait till crime is down then claim victory. Oh wait you did that for Chicago already. Oops. Back to waiting now right?

 

[2aguy]

Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........

 

[Brain357]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.

Safe from others.

If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.

Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.

When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.

It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.

They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.

 

[Brain357]

Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........

It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.

 

[rightwinger]

Strange that guns by far take the life of the owner more than anyone else.

not true....and you know it....suicides don't count so that is the only way you can stack that number....accidental gun deaths for 2013....505.......

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

comitting suicide doesn't count because method will change when one method is taken away..as per Japan, South Korea and many other countries with strict controls on guns..........

gun accidental deaths.....2013.....505.....

You have no proof of that

One thing we do know is that a gun suicide is instantaneous. A millisecond after you decide to pull the trigger, you are dead
No room for changing your mind

as is the Japanese way of jumping in front of a train a millisecond after you leave the platform you are dead...I have seen a person get hit by a train.....there is no coming back.....and it leaves a much bigger mess....more body parts all over the place.....

You think Americans are going to start jumping in front of trains?

That is what? Like number 40 on the US suicide list?

 

[rightwinger]

Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........

US also watches more Netflix

That may be adding to the drop in the murder rate

Your cause and effect is lacking

 

[2aguy]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.

Safe from others.

If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.

Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.

When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.

It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.

They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.

brain...there are up to 90 million gun owners and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......not a problem....and suicide....does't count...since other methods besides guns will be used....so you are wrong again.......

 

[Missourian]

Concealed carry?

Don't make me laugh

A woman has twins, and gives them up for adoption. One of them goes to a family in Egypt and is named 'Amal.' The other goes to a family in Spain, they name him Juan'. Years later; Juan sends a picture of himself to his mum. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her husband that she wished she also had a picture of Amal. Her husband responds, ''But they are twins. If you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal.''

 

[2aguy]

Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........

It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.

Did you do a study? No. you just decided you don't think concealed carry effects crime........that is very scientific of you......I have listed many studies on the topic that say it does...and the ones who say it doesn't....the ones who say concealed carry effects the crime rate are more.....the others...less....

 

[Brain357]

If you are claiming they are ment to save the owner then of course it counts. The owners of guns are the most likely to be killed by their gun. That's a fact. How many peope are killed by body armor?

If the owner chooses to end their own life, I can't stop them, and neither can any amount of gun control.

That is why it is outside the range of our discussion.

It depends on the discussion. He is claiming they make the owner safe. Given the most likely person to be shot by that gun is the owner, that claim is not true.

Safe from others.

If they didn't own a gun, would that keep them safe from themselves? No.

Now, there is a discussion to be had when it comes to murder suicide. But those murders are already accounted for in the 8,000 criminal homicides.

When it comes to straight suicide, no legislation or gun control can keep a person protected from themselves.

It's sad, but beyond the scope of our discussion, as the remedy gun control offers can't reduce the ability of persons to end their own life.

They do not make the owner safer. The most likely person by far to be shot by that gun is the owner either accidently or intentionally.

brain...there are up to 90 million gun owners and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013......not a problem....and suicide....does't count...since other methods besides guns will be used....so you are wrong again.......

If you are going to claim they make the owner safer then yes suicide does count. The most likely use of that gun is suicide, how is that making the owner safer?

 

[2aguy]

Concealed carry?

Don't make me laugh

A woman has twins, and gives them up for adoption. One of them goes to a family in Egypt and is named 'Amal.' The other goes to a family in Spain, they name him Juan'. Years later; Juan sends a picture of himself to his mum. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her husband that she wished she also had a picture of Amal. Her husband responds, ''But they are twins. If you've seen Juan, you've seen Amal.''

Thanks for the video.......John Stossel is great....

and notice....the man in the video didn't shoot the gun to stop or prevent the violent criminals.....

 

[Brain357]

Hmmm...funny....but there are now over 11.1 million concealed carry people in the United States....and gun murder is going down...not up...across the country.....so yeah....seems like concealed carry is part of the solution.....not part of the problem.....and cherry picking two new additions.....typical lefty tactic..........

It is neither. Concealed carry does not effect crime.

Did you do a study? No. you just decided you don't think concealed carry effects crime........that is very scientific of you......I have listed many studies on the topic that say it does...and the ones who say it doesn't....the ones who say concealed carry effects the crime rate are more.....the others...less....

Do we need a study when we have the real world? Chicago and Wisconsin got concealed carry. Violent crime is up in both. No study needed.