Cheney Calls for full Release of Memos

[xotoxi]

Really re-read the definition...
Torture Definition | Definition of Torture at Dictionary.com
tor⋅ture
   /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing.
–noun
1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

How painful do you think it is to get your head lopped off with a machete?

Probably, pretty extreme or severe, which fits the definition. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

But if there had been a doctor there...

 

[jreeves]

How painful do you think it is to get your head lopped off with a machete?

Probably, pretty extreme or severe, which fits the definition. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

But if there had been a doctor there...

There wasn't though.....
I don't imagine someone who has plans to cut someones head off would have a doctor there to prevent injury.

Just a thought...

 

[ABikerSailor]

The doctor was there to prevent extreme or severe pain. Therefore, waterboarding wasn't torture.

This is a poor argument, and relying on Dictionary.com doesn't help.

How many people who have been waterboarded by enemies by given their opinion on this topic? I've heard McCain. Anyone else? Seems to me he probably has some insight into it that the rest of us do not.

Still waiting for links that MCcain was in fact waterboarded?

Sioux Center, Ia. — Waterboarding is a form of torture no matter how it is done and should be a prohibited among U.S. military interrogation practices, Republican presidential candidate John McCain said today, taking issue with GOP rival Rudy Giuliani’s recent remarks.

“Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot and being used on Buddhist monks as we speak,” said McCain after a campaign stop at Dordt College here.

“People who have worn the uniform and had the experience know that this is a terrible and odious practice and should never be condoned in the U.S. We are a better nation than that.”

McCain, who was tortured as prisoner of war by the North Vietnamese military after his plane was shot down 40 years ago Friday, made it clear he disagreed with Giuliani. The former New York mayor did not entirely condemn waterboarding as in interrogation technique when asked about it Wednesday night in Davenport.

“It depends on how it is done; it depends on the circumstances; it depends on who does it,” Giuliani, a former federal prosecutor, said. “I think the way it has been defined in the media, it shouldn’t be done. … I would say if that is the description of it, then I can agree that it shouldn’t be done,” he said, adding that he doesn’t necessarily trust the media’s description and has yet to learn “what the real description of it is.”

McCain has been outspoken in his opposition to torture techniques and his belief that the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay should be closed. He said Thursday that while fictional character Jack Bauer on the television show “24” “is my hero, that doesn’t exist in the real world.”

“When I was imprisoned, I took heart from the fact that I knew my North Vietnamese captors would never be treated like I was treated by them,” McCain said, who has pointed out that his opposition to torture among Republican presidential candidates is based on military experience not shared by his opponents. “There are much better and more effective ways to get information. You torture someone long enough, he’ll tell whatever he thinks you want to know.”

McCain’s campaign stop at the small Christian college attracted a crowd of about 300 students, faculty and area residents to the DeYager Student Activity Center. The stop took place on the second day of three-day swing in Iowa in McCain’s bid for a top finishing spot in the Jan. 3 Iowa Republican caucuses.

The Arizona Republican was also scheduled to appear tonight at an issues forum sponsored by AARP in Sioux City. He and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee were the only two Republican candidates to agree to appear at the forum.

McCain backers contend that despite a nightmarish summer in which the Arizona Republican fell to fourth or fifth place among GOP hopefuls in Iowa, they believe he is going to have a resurgence in Iowa.

“I think it is just a matter of getting him in front of as many Iowans as we can,” Dick Johnson, former state auditor and one of McCain’s top Iowa backers. “We need to work hard for every vote we can get, but the more he is here, the easier it is for us. I think we will see a lot of him over the next two months.”

McCain: Waterboarding a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot « Aftermath News

And.......I kinda think that McCain (who served in the military, and was a POW), would know much more about this than your sorry ass.

Try again dipshit.

 

[xotoxi]

Probably, pretty extreme or severe, which fits the definition. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

But if there had been a doctor there...

There wasn't though.....
I don't imagine someone who has plans to cut someones head off would have a doctor there to prevent injury.

Just a thought...

Do you have proof that there was no doctor there?

And conversely, if there had been no doctor in the room when we were waterboarding captives, would that have made waterboarding torture?

 

[DiveCon]

Still waiting for links that MCcain was in fact waterboarded?

I don't have a link. I have heard it reported that he was. I can't say for certain whether it is true or not.

That said, however, if you are of the opinion that something can't be true without a link, or conversely that a link makes it true, you should re-evaluate.

I think if MCcain was waterboarded there should be a link somewhere saying he was waterboarded. I don't think that is unreasonable.

John McCain&squo;s account of Viet Cong torture | Herald Sun

no mention of waterboarding there

 

[DiveCon]

But if there had been a doctor there...

There wasn't though.....
I don't imagine someone who has plans to cut someones head off would have a doctor there to prevent injury.

Just a thought...

Do you have proof that there was no doctor there?

And conversely, if there had been no doctor in the room when we were waterboarding captives, would that have made waterboarding torture?

um, logic would preclude there was no doctor present to prevent injury since injury was the PLAN

 

[Coyote]

So by having a doctor in a room, the person being waterboarded doesn't feel pain?

How magical!

When I was a kid my doctor used to say, "now this won't hurt a bit!" Damn liar.

The Pros and Cons of using waterboarding;

Con: High level terrorist with definite information on future attacks is uncomfortable

True....? Or....hypothetical?

Con: Libtards and ACLU views waterboarding as torture

Hate to disappoint you but so do some conservatives....so did the U.S. when it prosecuted the Japanese for war crimes in WW2....

Pro: Waterboarding saves thousands of innocent people's lives

That's a new claim...got a source showing that? According to the FBI - key 9/11 leads and the information on Padilla were obtained without torture and despite 183 waterboardings, Khalid Sheik Mohammed never led them to bin Laden. In fact....there's been precious little to come out of torture beyond nebulous and unverified claims.

Pro: Through a nearly 100 percent effective method we are able to dismantle an organization that wants to kill us.

Got any support for that claim?

Hmm....hard decision there

Not really....

 

[xotoxi]

There wasn't though.....
I don't imagine someone who has plans to cut someones head off would have a doctor there to prevent injury.

Just a thought...

Do you have proof that there was no doctor there?

And conversely, if there had been no doctor in the room when we were waterboarding captives, would that have made waterboarding torture?

um, logic would preclude there was no doctor present to prevent injury since injury was the PLAN

Maybe there was a doctor in case one of the murderers cut himself while performing the beheading.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Besides, if there WAS a doctor there, under his Hippocratic Oath, he would be obligated to report it.

Why do you think that they were trying to keep the Red Cross outta there?

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know........any of you assholes that think waterboarding is not torture.......I challenge all of you dumb motherfuckers to go and get strapped to a plank, have a washrag stuffed in your mouth, and then go through not less than 5 MINUTES of it.

Then come back and report. I'm betting you'll change your mind.

 

[Coyote]

All this business about doctors being present during torture negating it from being torture makes me wonder.

When the Nazi's were conducting their medical experiments on Jews....it was "doctors" not only there but participating. Does that mean all those people weren't being tortured? They weren't really in pain...? They weren't really....damaged?

 

[Iriemon]

All this business about doctors being present during torture negating it from being torture makes me wonder.

When the Nazi's were conducting their medical experiments on Jews....it was "doctors" not only there but participating. Does that mean all those people weren't being tortured? They weren't really in pain...? They weren't really....damaged?

The purpose of a doctor is to make sure the guy who is being tortured doesn't die, because then you can't get information. Not to make him feel more comfortable.

 

[Coyote]

You know........any of you assholes that think waterboarding is not torture.......I challenge all of you dumb motherfuckers to go and get strapped to a plank, have a washrag stuffed in your mouth, and then go through not less than 5 MINUTES of it.

Then come back and report. I'm betting you'll change your mind.

Add to that you must have no idea who's doing it to you, or why, or if you'll get out of it alive.

 

[Ravi]

Torture Definition | Definition of Torture at Dictionary.com
tor⋅ture
   /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [tawr-cher] Show IPA noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing.
–noun
1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2. a method of inflicting such pain.
3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.

The doctor was there to prevent extreme or severe pain. Therefore, waterboarding wasn't torture.

You ignored #4 and #5. And no, the doctor was there...if at all...to prevent death

How so?

You seem to only consider physical pain to be torture. Even by the definition you posted anguish of the mind also is torture.

 

[ABikerSailor]

All this business about doctors being present during torture negating it from being torture makes me wonder.

When the Nazi's were conducting their medical experiments on Jews....it was "doctors" not only there but participating. Does that mean all those people weren't being tortured? They weren't really in pain...? They weren't really....damaged?

The purpose of a doctor is to make sure the guy who is being tortured doesn't die, because then you can't get information. Not to make him feel more comfortable.

Yeah.....but if you torture them, all you get is unreliable information.

 

[jreeves]

You know........any of you assholes that think waterboarding is not torture.......I challenge all of you dumb motherfuckers to go and get strapped to a plank, have a washrag stuffed in your mouth, and then go through not less than 5 MINUTES of it.

Then come back and report. I'm betting you'll change your mind.

I challenge you to take yourself and all the people who are closest to you. To go in a large building, let a terrorist crash a plane in it, killing everyone inside. Knowing all along that it could be prevented by waterboarding the terrorist piloting the plane. Then come back and tell us how waterboarding is torture, oh wait you couldn't....

 

[xotoxi]

You ignored #4 and #5. And no, the doctor was there...if at all...to prevent death

How so?

You seem to only consider physical pain to be torture. Even by the definition you posted anguish of the mind also is torture.

Then in that case, there needs to be a medical doctor and a psychiatrist on site.

The psychiatrist can ask them "How did the waterboarding make you feel?" and "Tell me about your childhood relationship with your mother."

 

[jreeves]

You ignored #4 and #5. And no, the doctor was there...if at all...to prevent death

How so?

You seem to only consider physical pain to be torture. Even by the definition you posted anguish of the mind also is torture.

It's not extreme anguish...

 

[jreeves]

All this business about doctors being present during torture negating it from being torture makes me wonder.

When the Nazi's were conducting their medical experiments on Jews....it was "doctors" not only there but participating. Does that mean all those people weren't being tortured? They weren't really in pain...? They weren't really....damaged?

The purpose of a doctor is to make sure the guy who is being tortured doesn't die, because then you can't get information. Not to make him feel more comfortable.

Yeah.....but if you torture them, all you get is unreliable information.

read my previous post then say its unreliable

 

[jreeves]

All this business about doctors being present during torture negating it from being torture makes me wonder.

When the Nazi's were conducting their medical experiments on Jews....it was "doctors" not only there but participating. Does that mean all those people weren't being tortured? They weren't really in pain...? They weren't really....damaged?

The purpose of a doctor is to make sure the guy who is being tortured doesn't die, because then you can't get information. Not to make him feel more comfortable.

The memos stated the doctors were there to prevent injury, but feel free to make shit up.