Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Coyote]

Actually, it does. If poverty were non-existent in Islamic nations, the allowance for child marriage would still be a part of the allowance for abuse based upon the actions of the "perfect model for humanity".

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."

Yes. Must reach puberty and maturity. That's not an 8 or 9 yr old, as is the OP.

Also from your link:

Poverty plays a major role in child marriages, which are seen as a way to provide economic security to young girls

In November 2006, ministers, politicians and scholars from almost 50 Muslim states gathered for two days in Morocco for the first Islamic Childhood Conference, and called for "measures to eliminate all forms of discrimination against girls and all harmful traditional or customary practices, such as child marriage and female genital mutilation." In Islam intellectual and physical maturity and a woman’s credible permission are prerequisites for a marriage to be valid. There are some that argue the Prophet married Aisha bint Abu Bakr, at the age of 9 and therefore deduct that child marriage is permissible. However, some scholars question the authenticity of the Hadith that claims Aisha was 9 at the time of marriage as this would go against the just and merciful message of Islam, and most importantly, oppose a prerequisite of having a valid Muslim marriage.

So Al-Azhar Al-Sharif, the highest religious body in Sunni, is making a strong statement against child marriage.

Also interesting is the reaction in the Arab world, to the claim that an 8 yr old Yemeni child died. Even though this particular incident was shown to be false, it provoked a great deal of outrage in the Islamic world, for example: Yemen's faces false child marriage accusations- Yemen Post English Newspaper Online

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Actually, it does. If poverty were non-existent in Islamic nations, the allowance for child marriage would still be a part of the allowance for abuse based upon the actions of the "perfect model for humanity".

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."

Your religion allows sexual intercourse at age 3. Why is that an improvement?

 

[Coyote]

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."

Your religion allows sexual intercourse at age 3. Why is that an improvement?

I don't know what her religion is, but there is no religion that allows it that young....

 

[toastman]

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."

Your religion allows sexual intercourse at age 3. Why is that an improvement?

I don't know what her religion is, but there is no religion that allows it that young....

Sherri slut is probably talking about Judaism. There is some sort of myth that it is allowed in Judaism

 

[Coyote]

Your religion allows sexual intercourse at age 3. Why is that an improvement?

I don't know what her religion is, but there is no religion that allows it that young....

Sherri slut is probably talking about Judaism. There is some sort of myth that it is allowed in Judaism

Ahh.

Most likely a passage is taken out of it's historical context and manipulated to feed an agenda.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

From the Babylonian Talmud: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (6) (6. less than three years old) it is as if one puts the finger into the eye (7) (7. tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years) Kethuboth 11b -


Babylonian Talmud: Kethuboth 11

Post 719 also addresses Jewish religious texts that say the same.

 

[Coyote]

From the Babylonian Talmud: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (6) (6. less than three years old) it is as if one puts the finger into the eye (7) (7. tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years) Kethuboth 11b -


Babylonian Talmud: Kethuboth 11

It doesn't sound like it's "permitted" - looking at the link, it seems to be about penalties applied for certain types of rape.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

From the Babylonian Talmud: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (6) (6. less than three years old) it is as if one puts the finger into the eye (7) (7. tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years) Kethuboth 11b -


Babylonian Talmud: Kethuboth 11

It doesn't sound like it's "permitted" - looking at the link, it seems to be about penalties applied for certain types of rape.

A history of the Mishnaic Law of Purities. 15. Niddah . Commentary - Google Books

From the Mishnah
PG 83 Niddah Ch 5 3-5

"The girl three years and one day old is deemed capable of sexual relations...:"

 

[S.J.]

The subject of the thread is not Muhammad.

Nor is it incest. It's child rape, and the one person who is notorious for that practice is Muhammad.

No one raped anyone.

Really? You don't call a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl rape?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Jewish Child Brides —*Why the Barbaric Practice of Marrying Off Young Girls Persists

Ever since the marriage of Rebecca and Isaac over three millennia ago, the children of Abraham and Sarah have toyed with the practice of betrothing their daughters at very young ages. Of course not all scholars agree that Rebecca was actually three years old when she took the fateful decision to feed Eliezer’s camels and cement her destiny as a Jewish matriarch. Realistically, many scholars (including Maimonides, Tosafot and Sifrei, for example) argue that the age is a fabrication. Nevertheless, the mythology of the girl-bride has relentlessly taken hold, to such an extent that even now, thousands of years later, the practice is frightfully tenacious.The latest chapter in the Jewish annals of child-brides emerged last week in Kiryat Sefer (Modi’in Illit), a Haredi town in the center of Israel not too far from where I live. A 13-year-old girl whose parents were horrified to discover that she was talking to boys (my word!) was apparently married off to a 16-year-old boy from Rehovot. Rumors are sketchy about whether they were merely engaged or secretly married. But according to*a report in Haaretz, the girls’ parents were so overwhelmed by their daughter’s rambunctiousness that they turned to a local kabbalist who told them that “this was the only way for the girl to supposedly atone for …. her sin.” The welfare department, the police, and even other local rabbis tried to intervene to prevent the marriage from taking place, but the social workers learned that the marriage took place anyway. (Government social workers*are now on strike*in Israel, and are thus not currently involved.)

Jewish Child Brides ?*Why the Barbaric Practice of Marrying Off Young Girls Persists ? The Sisterhood ? Forward.com

 

[Hollie]

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."

Yes. Must reach puberty and maturity. That's not an 8 or 9 yr old, as is the OP.

Also from your link:

Poverty plays a major role in child marriages, which are seen as a way to provide economic security to young girls

In November 2006, ministers, politicians and scholars from almost 50 Muslim states gathered for two days in Morocco for the first Islamic Childhood Conference, and called for "measures to eliminate all forms of discrimination against girls and all harmful traditional or customary practices, such as child marriage and female genital mutilation." In Islam intellectual and physical maturity and a woman’s credible permission are prerequisites for a marriage to be valid. There are some that argue the Prophet married Aisha bint Abu Bakr, at the age of 9 and therefore deduct that child marriage is permissible. However, some scholars question the authenticity of the Hadith that claims Aisha was 9 at the time of marriage as this would go against the just and merciful message of Islam, and most importantly, oppose a prerequisite of having a valid Muslim marriage.

So Al-Azhar Al-Sharif, the highest religious body in Sunni, is making a strong statement against child marriage.

Also interesting is the reaction in the Arab world, to the claim that an 8 yr old Yemeni child died. Even though this particular incident was shown to be false, it provoked a great deal of outrage in the Islamic world, for example: Yemen's faces false child marriage accusations- Yemen Post English Newspaper Online

What a shame that both the islamist world and you just can't bring yourselves to unequivocally reject child abuse by way of child marriage.


In Islam intellectual and physical maturity and a woman’s credible permission are prerequisites for a marriage to be valid

And as we know, in a male dominated and controlled society such as islamist society, the child has no way of denying permission or making such choices as to what man she will be married to.

Just another way for islamist apologists to allow the abuse of children to continue.

 

[S.J.]

The subject is, actually child marriage. Some want to make it about Mohammed.

Child marriage and it's causes. In Muslims the main cause is clearly Islam, and Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old.

The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.

You keep blaming it on poverty, let's use some common sense here. A muslim family is poor, so they sell their 8 or 9 year old child to another muslim who is not poor. I guess the muslim who BUYS the little girl is just doing it to "help out" the poor family and has no intention of violating the child? Perversion/pedophilia isn't a factor?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Nor is it incest. It's child rape, and the one person who is notorious for that practice is Muhammad.

No one raped anyone.

Really? You don't call a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl rape?

Who did that? The story in the OP is not true.

 

[S.J.]

no one raped anyone.

really? You don't call a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl rape?

who did that? The story in the op is not true.

denial.

 

[Roudy]

What I would like to know more about is these activists, who they are, are they outsiders or rather to what extent are they outsiders, what is their agenda.

"The number of female activists in Yemen has grown as a result of the protests in 2011. Although they face many obstacles, these are positive signs of increased awareness and a growing public debate on these issues that affect many Yemeni girls and women."

The Reason For Yemen's Child-Bride Problem Isn't What You'd Expect

Yemenis don't do it because of Islam. Ya right.

Sherri posted an excellent article. Too bad you don't bother to read it. No one is saying Islam has nothing to do with it, however other factors in those parts of the world are far more causal (which explains why it's also prevalent in non-Islamic countries).

From her article:

The problem of child marriage is not confined to Yemen. It can be found across different continents, cultures, and religions. However, one thread ties these experiences together, and that is poverty. According to Human Rights Watch, child marriage is most prevalent in parts of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia that are “characterized by persistent poverty and low levels of economic development.” The trend is certainly discernible in Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East. The country is “beset by high unemployment, widespread corruption, and rampant human rights abuses.” As a result of the economic situation, these marriages often take the shape of a commercial transaction as the father seeks the dowry payments as a means to lighten his family’s financial burdens.

Yes, and that's where it differs from Muslims.

Muslims cite religious "rights" while others in poverty marry young girls as a commercial transaction. See, there is a difference. Very good.

 

[Roudy]

really? You don't call a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl rape?

who did that? The story in the op is not true.

denial.

....is not a river in Egypt.

 

[Roudy]

No one raped anyone.

Really? You don't call a 53 year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl rape?

Who did that? The story in the OP is not true.

Mohammad the prophet of Islam did that. And that's why Muslim men feel they have a God given right to marry 8 and 9 year olds. Keep up will ya.

 

[Coyote]

Yemenis don't do it because of Islam. Ya right.

Sherri posted an excellent article. Too bad you don't bother to read it. No one is saying Islam has nothing to do with it, however other factors in those parts of the world are far more causal (which explains why it's also prevalent in non-Islamic countries).

From her article:

The problem of child marriage is not confined to Yemen. It can be found across different continents, cultures, and religions. However, one thread ties these experiences together, and that is poverty. According to Human Rights Watch, child marriage is most prevalent in parts of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia that are “characterized by persistent poverty and low levels of economic development.” The trend is certainly discernible in Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East. The country is “beset by high unemployment, widespread corruption, and rampant human rights abuses.” As a result of the economic situation, these marriages often take the shape of a commercial transaction as the father seeks the dowry payments as a means to lighten his family’s financial burdens.

Yes, and that's where it differs from Muslims.

Muslims cite religious "rights" while others in poverty marry young girls as a commercial transaction. See, there is a difference. Very good.

The article is talking about Yemen. ...As a result of the economic situation, these marriages often take the shape of a commercial transaction as the father seeks the dowry payments as a means to lighten his family’s financial burdens...

Yemen is a Muslim country.

It specifies poverty and marriage as a commercial transaction. In Yemen.

Read it.

 

[Roudy]

From the Babylonian Talmud: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (6) (6. less than three years old) it is as if one puts the finger into the eye (7) (7. tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years) Kethuboth 11b -


Babylonian Talmud: Kethuboth 11

It doesn't sound like it's "permitted" - looking at the link, it seems to be about penalties applied for certain types of rape.

A history of the Mishnaic Law of Purities. 15. Niddah . Commentary - Google Books

From the Mishnah
PG 83 Niddah Ch 5 3-5

"The girl three years and one day old is deemed capable of sexual relations...:"

Geez, nice bullshit you posted there, Sherri....can you show me any country today where Jews are running around marrying girls younger than 10 or 11 legally or by religious law?

Case closed. .

 

[Roudy]

Sherri posted an excellent article. Too bad you don't bother to read it. No one is saying Islam has nothing to do with it, however other factors in those parts of the world are far more causal (which explains why it's also prevalent in non-Islamic countries).

From her article:

Yes, and that's where it differs from Muslims.

Muslims cite religious "rights" while others in poverty marry young girls as a commercial transaction. See, there is a difference. Very good.

The article is talking about Yemen. ...As a result of the economic situation, these marriages often take the shape of a commercial transaction as the father seeks the dowry payments as a means to lighten his family’s financial burdens...

Yemen is a Muslim country.

It specifies poverty and marriage as a commercial transaction. In Yemen.

Read it.

And if you ask the father why, he will tell you that it's allowed in Islam, because that's what Mohammad did.

Why doesn't he sell his wife then?