Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Roudy]

The subject is, actually child marriage. Some want to make it about Mohammed.

Child marriage and it's causes. In Muslims the main cause is clearly Islam, and Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old.

The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.

It's not poverty just because you want it to be, or say so. It's people believing their religion allows them to marriage 9 year olds. Poverty, ignorance, illiteracy, certainly play a role, but take a back seat among Muslims when they recite RELIGION as their justification for it. I have shown this to you over and over quoting what Muslims themselves have said, yet yon refuse to accept. Religion plays a major role in why Muslims do it.

You're constantly either debating Aisha's age or trying to make it look as if Islam has very little to do it. This is not what Muslims themselves believe.

 

[Roudy]

The Zionist Strategy of Demonizing Islam

The Zionist Strategy of Demonizing Islam « Aletho News

I see, it's not the Muslims that demonize Jews and Judaism, or Christianity.

Just yesterday, Muslims blew up a church in Pakistan killing 80 people. Who are the real haters and demonizers?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What I would like to know more about is these activists, who they are, are they outsiders or rather to what extent are they outsiders, what is their agenda.

"The number of female activists in Yemen has grown as a result of the protests in 2011. Although they face many obstacles, these are positive signs of increased awareness and a growing public debate on these issues that affect many Yemeni girls and women."

The Reason For Yemen's Child-Bride Problem Isn't What You'd Expect

 

[Roudy]

Yup. By Muslim religious conservatives in traditional cultures. Fortunately, the sentiment is not universal in Islam.

Overwhelming majority of Muslim countries are traditional and religious based societies. Even in those that are run by secular dictators, the majority of people are very religious.

There is universal consensus among religious Muslims and even most Muslims that Aisha was 9 years old. The facts are there and irrefutable. Even Osomir who claims to have studied Islam does not dispute this.

There may be a tiny group that is trying to spread the age of Aisha's age as "unknown" or "perhaps older than thought" to whitewash reality. God luck with convincing Muslims in that. The truth is, there is no real dispute as to her age. Just desperate attempts.

Actually it is not "white washing" reality but rather basing it on very real historical events that occurred around her lifetime and it's not a "tiny" group. There is considerable evidence that the age issue - as a "pedophilic" issue - is a fairly modern invention by those who try to demonize Islam as a religion of pedophiles when child marriage is by no means universally accepted in Muslim countries.

It's whitewashing and not based in reality. Muslim countries base laws that allow child child marriages on Islam. In countries where it is occurring, Muslims cite Islam. Even in countries that aren't poor, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan where it also occurs Muslims again cite Islam as the reason. And In poor countries such as India, even though they passed a law against the practice, it is the Muslim Indians that posted against it, and are not following it, citing ISLAM. perhaps you should be busy telling the Muslims that even though they think they're doing this because of religion, it's not so, or perhaps Aisha wasn't 9. Sitting here tens of thousands of miles away making up stuff about Muslims isn't going to make any difference.

It's pretty obvious to an objective person with no agenda that Islam is the main cause. Of course there are some that don't want it to be so, because it just doesn't fit into this image they wan to portray as Islam being just like any other religion, or behaving just like any religion today. Again, the facts speak for themselves much louder than words.

 

[Roudy]

What I would like to know more about is these activists, who they are, are they outsiders or rather to what extent are they outsiders, what is their agenda.

"The number of female activists in Yemen has grown as a result of the protests in 2011. Although they face many obstacles, these are positive signs of increased awareness and a growing public debate on these issues that affect many Yemeni girls and women."

The Reason For Yemen's Child-Bride Problem Isn't What You'd Expect

Yemenis don't do it because of Islam. Ya right.

 

[Hollie]

The subject is, actually child marriage. Some want to make it about Mohammed.

Child marriage and it's causes. In Muslims the main cause is clearly Islam, and Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old.

The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.

In the rational world, Islam's religious leaders tell us otherwise.

Apologists for child abuse only perpetuate a societal cancer by refusing to acknowledge there is a root cause problem.

 

[Roudy]

You miss thr point. In various locations in Mo's (swish) neighborhood, any attempt to restrict the practice of pious moslem men taking child brides could be considered a
crime against koranity

Yup. By Muslim religious conservatives in traditional cultures. Fortunately, the sentiment is not universal in Islam.

Yep. It's reasonable to accept the actions of "conservatives", ie:, pious moslems in the KSA, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Turkey, Jordan (Jordan possibly being the "honor killing" capital of the islamist world), Iraq, Oman....

Yep, keep the women in their Shame Sacks, bang em' young and hey, as a man, you're allowed several child brides. When they hit the wall at 15 years old, get a new one.

Life's good in Ummah'istan.

Forgetting of course that religion play the most dominant role in Muslim societies. And Shariah law is considered above any civil law, even among Muslims that live in the West, which is why most Muslim countries have their civil laws based on Shariah law.

 

[Coyote]

Aisha's age at marriage:

You decide based on actual historical analysis and ask yourself what your own agenda is in taking events out of their historical period and trying to paint Islam as a religion of pedophiles with widespread suppport for child marriage. Outside of tradtional societies you find little to no support and even within traditional socieites support for marriage prior to puberty (which can be as young as 11 or 12).

Clearly, when modern people try to use an historical age of marriage to validate violating children - it is wrong, it is against the morals, customs and laws the world today. It should be condemned and pressure should be put upon nations that practice it or allow it to put an end to it regardless of religion.

It should be noted that traditional scholarship is not unanimously in agreement about Aisha’s age either - the events occurred over a thousand years ago. This gives Muslims the power they need to abolish any religious justification for the practice in Muslim majority countries around world, though it does not address the main issues driving it which are poverty and lack of education.

 

[Coyote]

Child marriage and it's causes. In Muslims the main cause is clearly Islam, and Mohammed's marriage to a 9 year old.

The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.

In the rational world, Islam's religious leaders tell us otherwise.

Apologists for child abuse only perpetuate a societal cancer by refusing to acknowledge there is a root cause problem.

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

 

[Coyote]

What I would like to know more about is these activists, who they are, are they outsiders or rather to what extent are they outsiders, what is their agenda.

"The number of female activists in Yemen has grown as a result of the protests in 2011. Although they face many obstacles, these are positive signs of increased awareness and a growing public debate on these issues that affect many Yemeni girls and women."

The Reason For Yemen's Child-Bride Problem Isn't What You'd Expect

Yemenis don't do it because of Islam. Ya right.

Sherri posted an excellent article. Too bad you don't bother to read it. No one is saying Islam has nothing to do with it, however other factors in those parts of the world are far more causal (which explains why it's also prevalent in non-Islamic countries).

From her article:

The problem of child marriage is not confined to Yemen. It can be found across different continents, cultures, and religions. However, one thread ties these experiences together, and that is poverty. According to Human Rights Watch, child marriage is most prevalent in parts of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia that are “characterized by persistent poverty and low levels of economic development.” The trend is certainly discernible in Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East. The country is “beset by high unemployment, widespread corruption, and rampant human rights abuses.” As a result of the economic situation, these marriages often take the shape of a commercial transaction as the father seeks the dowry payments as a means to lighten his family’s financial burdens.

 

[Hollie]

The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.

In the rational world, Islam's religious leaders tell us otherwise.

Apologists for child abuse only perpetuate a societal cancer by refusing to acknowledge there is a root cause problem.

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

In the rational world, Islam's religious leaders tell us otherwise.

Apologists for child abuse only perpetuate a societal cancer by refusing to acknowledge there is a root cause problem.

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

Why must you keep spouting so many lies? No religious leaders endorse what was reported in the OP. And noone is excusing it. It is not even a true story.

 

[Hollie]

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

Why must you keep spouting so many lies? No religious leaders endorse what was reported in the OP. And noone is excusing it. It is not even a true story.

Are you really this dense?

Never mind, that's a rhetorical question.

 

[Coyote]

In the rational world, Islam's religious leaders tell us otherwise.

Apologists for child abuse only perpetuate a societal cancer by refusing to acknowledge there is a root cause problem.

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

That doesn't alter the fact that poverty is the main driver of child marriages including Islamic majority countries.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

Why must you keep spouting so many lies? No religious leaders endorse what was reported in the OP. And noone is excusing it. It is not even a true story.

Are you really this dense?

Never mind, that's a rhetorical question.

No religious leaders have endorsed the child abuse alleged in the OP. So, please stop claiming they have. If you really want to persist with such claims, prove your claim is true. Show me any person anywhere defending the child abuse alleged in the OP. And lets go back to the OP and refresh what is alleged, that an 8 year old girl was a child bride and that her husband had sex with her and that the sexual act caused her uterus to rupture, and she died. Show me any person anywhere endorsing these alleged acts and defending them!

 

[Hollie]

Perhaps you should read through this thread and look at the links and posts where root causes are discussed by rational people such as UNICEF and others seeking to abolish the practice.

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

That doesn't alter the fact that poverty is the main driver of child marriages including Islamic majority countries.

Actually, it does. If poverty were non-existent in Islamic nations, the allowance for child marriage would still be a part of the allowance for abuse based upon the actions of the "perfect model for humanity".

 

[Coyote]

Why must you keep spouting so many lies? No religious leaders endorse what was reported in the OP. And noone is excusing it. It is not even a true story.

Are you really this dense?

Never mind, that's a rhetorical question.

No religious leaders have endorsed the child abuse alleged in the OP. So, please stop claiming they have. If you really want to persist with such claims, prove your claim is true. Show me any person anywhere defending the child abuse alleged in the OP. And lets go back to the OP and refresh what is alleged, that an 8 year old girl was a child bride and that her husband had sex with her and that the sexual act caused her uterus to rupture, and she died. Show me any person anywhere endorsing these alleged acts and defending them!

There are clerics in rural, mostly uneducated tribal areas that legitimize child marriage based on the common interpretation of Mohammed's marriage to Aisha. There are also those who will use any excuse to demonize Islam and this is one example. Note - they are more interested in blaming it all on Islam rather than condemning it. Civilized people, with modern ethics, of any religion condemn it - regardless of the religion of the country it occurs in. The fact that it has provoked an outcry in the Muslim world and the Yemeni government is now legislating a minimum age of marriage is a good thing. How effective that will be in what is the poorest country in the ME remains to be seen because it's poverty more than religion that drives child marriage.

 

[Coyote]

Perhaps you should understand that poverty happens in many locations in the world. Only in those parts of the world where islamism is the dominant politico-religious ideology do we find religious leaders endorsing this child abuse. The abuse is allowed because the perfect model for humanity and inventor of Islam made himself such an allowance.

What a shame that islamists make excuses for this abuse.

That doesn't alter the fact that poverty is the main driver of child marriages including Islamic majority countries.

Actually, it does. If poverty were non-existent in Islamic nations, the allowance for child marriage would still be a part of the allowance for abuse based upon the actions of the "perfect model for humanity".

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

LEGAL-RELIGIOUS STATUS OF THE FEMALE ACCORDING TO AGE

Discussby*Tirzah Meacham (leBeit Yoreh) Legal status in Judaism is determined by age, sex, legal capacity and, to some extent, by class (kohen, levi, yisrael) and societal status. This entry will deal chiefly with the changing legal status from conception through adulthood of females, with some reference to parallel status of males and the legal differences class imposes.The father has biblical authority to marry her to the Jewish man of his choice from the day of her birth (Niddah*5:4). The marriage is binding and may only be broken by the death of her spouse or by the acceptance of the writ of divorce (get) by her fatherThe father’s right to contract marriage on behalf of his minor daughter has one other limitation: if the mode of acquisition in marriage is by sexual intercourse, she must be at least three years and a day old before her intercourse is considered legal. The reason given is that prior to the age of three years and a day her hymen*(betulim) would return (BTNiddah*45a).*


Legal-Religious Status of the Female According to Age | Jewish Women's Archive

 

[Hollie]

That doesn't alter the fact that poverty is the main driver of child marriages including Islamic majority countries.

Actually, it does. If poverty were non-existent in Islamic nations, the allowance for child marriage would still be a part of the allowance for abuse based upon the actions of the "perfect model for humanity".

That's not based upon facts. Child marriage statistics spread the largest rates of child marriage (top ten and twenty) amongst an array of religions with Muslim and Christian majority nations almost tied. Most are in Africa and Hindu dominant Nepal and India are among the biggest offenders. Wealthier more educated nations and nations with political stability have far few occurences of child marriages and most of those are in rural/tribal areas.

And yet, for all your continued apologetics, the sheik'ers and movers of the islamist world refuse to contradict the inventor of Islam and the perfect model for humanity.

Early Marriage | WISE Muslim Women


Al-Azhar Al-Sharif in Egypt, a significant Islamic religious body, released a new manual on the rights of Muslim children that states; "Marriage in Islam is regulated by certain rules, namely, children must reach puberty and maturity so that they can get married."