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Yet according to your UNICEF child marriage is most prevalent among Muslim majority countries, and they cite Islamic and shariah law. Why do you choose to cite certain facts and data and totally omit the most relevant and damning ones?Name a few "non muslim" countries that allow child marriages.I'm not the one blaming poverty. I'm citing sources such as UNICEF and human rights organizations that cite poverty as the main reason. Take it up with them.
You seem to overlook the fact that child marriages are not limited to Muslim majority countries and in fact, the top countries for child marriages are almost evenly divided between Christian and Muslim, with a couple of Hindu nations thrown in. Are you trying to tell me that all those non-Muslim child marriages have nothing to do with perversion?
Note - I have never stated perversion/pedophilia is not a factor. I'm quite convinced it is when you are talking about 8 and 9 year olds. You seem to think it's not when it's not a Muslim.
Do you mean allow as in legal ages of consent or allow as in age of consent is poorly enforced and as a result they have high rates of child marriages?
Much of this was gone into earlier in the this thread.
Worldwide ages of consent vary: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...XzY8i9ULsXwVqMg&bvm=bv.52434380,d.dmg&cad=rja
Mexico and Angola have the lowest legal age of consent (for females): 12. They are also Christian majority countries.
Now you're spreading disinformation. Did you totally forget my post that indicated that even in India, they passed a law banning marriage under the age of 18, which is acceptable to the Hindu majority, as well as Christians, Bahaiis, and Jews, and the only people that keep doing it are the 300 million Indian Muslims, citing a religious right to do so? Which is again, why it is most prevalent in India among Indian Muslims?You keep blaming it on poverty, let's use some common sense here. A muslim family is poor, so they sell their 8 or 9 year old child to another muslim who is not poor. I guess the muslim who BUYS the little girl is just doing it to "help out" the poor family and has no intention of violating the child? Perversion/pedophilia isn't a factor?The main cause is poverty. Islam is secondary.
I'm not the one blaming poverty. I'm citing sources such as UNICEF and human rights organizations that cite poverty as the main reason. Take it up with them.
You seem to overlook the fact that child marriages are not limited to Muslim majority countries and in fact, the top countries for child marriages are almost evenly divided between Christian and Muslim, with a couple of Hindu nations thrown in. Are you trying to tell me that all those non-Muslim child marriages have nothing to do with perversion?
Note - I have never stated perversion/pedophilia is not a factor. I'm quite convinced it is when you are talking about 8 and 9 year olds. You seem to think it's not when it's not a Muslim.
By the way Sherri, did you ask your Iranian Muslim friend if the reason men are allowed to marry 9 year olds in Iran was due to poverty, or Islam?They no longer feel the need to marry the "little ones"
Let me google that for you
So...all that shows is that some Rabbis, like some priests, ministers, immams take advantage of their calling to molest children.
That is right, like some fathers arrange child marriages for their daughters. They include fathers from different religions and cultures. Not all of them do it, fathers that is. Most of us see this conduct as morally wrong, and also the conduct of priests and rabbis and imams who abuse kids. There are things we can most of us agree about, I think.
Yet according to your UNICEF child marriage is most prevalent among Muslim majority countries, and they cite Islamic and shariah law. Why do you choose to cite certain facts and data and totally omit the most relevant and damning ones?Name a few "non muslim" countries that allow child marriages.
Do you mean allow as in legal ages of consent or allow as in age of consent is poorly enforced and as a result they have high rates of child marriages?
Much of this was gone into earlier in the this thread.
Worldwide ages of consent vary: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...XzY8i9ULsXwVqMg&bvm=bv.52434380,d.dmg&cad=rja
Mexico and Angola have the lowest legal age of consent (for females): 12. They are also Christian majority countries.
Now you're spreading disinformation. Did you totally forget my post that indicated that even in India, they passed a law banning marriage under the age of 18, which is acceptable to the Hindu majority, as well as Christians, Bahaiis, and Jews, and the only people that keep doing it are the 300 million Indian Muslims, citing a religious right to do so? Which is again, why it is most prevalent in India among Indian Muslims?You keep blaming it on poverty, let's use some common sense here. A muslim family is poor, so they sell their 8 or 9 year old child to another muslim who is not poor. I guess the muslim who BUYS the little girl is just doing it to "help out" the poor family and has no intention of violating the child? Perversion/pedophilia isn't a factor?
I'm not the one blaming poverty. I'm citing sources such as UNICEF and human rights organizations that cite poverty as the main reason. Take it up with them.
You seem to overlook the fact that child marriages are not limited to Muslim majority countries and in fact, the top countries for child marriages are almost evenly divided between Christian and Muslim, with a couple of Hindu nations thrown in. Are you trying to tell me that all those non-Muslim child marriages have nothing to do with perversion?
Note - I have never stated perversion/pedophilia is not a factor. I'm quite convinced it is when you are talking about 8 and 9 year olds. You seem to think it's not when it's not a Muslim.
More damning data omitted in favor of disinformation and whitewashing.
It doesn't sound like it's "permitted" - looking at the link, it seems to be about penalties applied for certain types of rape.
A history of the Mishnaic Law of Purities. 15. Niddah . Commentary - Google Books
From the Mishnah
PG 83 Niddah Ch 5 3-5
"The girl three years and one day old is deemed capable of sexual relations...:"
So that is from "A history of the Mishnaic Law of Purities" which sounds as complex and constraining and archaic as all those Islamic codes ... which makes it kind of laughable when people try to single out Islam as a socio-political system some how different from other religions...
It's talking about "Niddah". When I look it up in Wikipedia, it's seems to be rules pertaining to impure (menstrating) women....a bit medievil. Children conceived during Niddah are (ben Niddah) are considered "tainted".
It does state as an example - "a girl 3 yrs old betrothed by intercourse." when talking about legal status of children.
I'll admit - I don't know exactly what to make of it - I'm certainly not a scholar - except to say, that like Islam - many of these rules and cases applied to a culture that existed several thousand years ago and should be viewed in their historical context.
Yes, that is a discussion by the rabbis attempting to sort out how to deal with the crime of rape against a HYPOTHETICAL child who obviously is far too young to be seen as a 'sexual' being.
It is not, and never was, a discussion of when it was 'acceptable' to inflict sexual intercourse upon a three year old child.
And it's also something which existed as Oral teaching for quite a few hundred years before it was written down ca 200 CE.
It's no more an 'endorsement' of child rape than the passages about Aisha are.
OR - for that matter! - considering a priest who sodomized altar boys to still be keeping his priestly vow of 'celibacy'.
The rights of women in traditional Judaism are much greater than they were in the rest of Western civilization until the 20th century. Women had the right to buy, sell, and own property, and make their own contracts, rights which women in Western countries (including America) did not have until about 100 years ago. In fact, Proverbs 31:10-31, which is traditionally read at Jewish weddings, speaks repeatedly of business acumen as a trait to be prized in women (v. 11, 13, 16, and 18 especially).
Women have the right to be consulted with regard to their marriage. Marital sex is regarded as the woman's right, and not the man's. Men do not have the right to beat or mistreat their wives, a right that was recognized by law in many Western countries until a few hundred years ago. In cases of rape, a woman is generally presumed not to have consented to the intercourse, even if she enjoyed it, even if she consented after the sexual act began and declined a rescue! This is in sharp contrast to American society, where even today rape victims often have to overcome public suspicion that they "asked for it" or "wanted it." Traditional Judaism recognizes that forced sexual relations within the context of marriage are rape and are not permitted; in many states in America today, rape within marriage is still not a crime.
Is 13 an Adult?
Many people mock the idea that a 12 or 13 year old child is an adult, claiming that it is an outdated notion based on the needs of an agricultural society. This criticism comes from a misunderstanding of the significance of becoming a bar mitzvah.
Bar mitzvah is not about being a full adult in every sense of the word, ready to marry, go out on your own, earn a living and raise children. The Talmud makes this abundantly clear. In Pirkei Avot, it is said that while 13 is the proper age for fulfillment of the Commandments, 18 is the proper age for marriage and 20 is the proper age for earning a livelihood. Elsewhere in the Talmud, the proper age for marriage is said to be 16-24.
Case closed.
Another story of child-brides emerged several years ago in Israel’s north. Rabbi Shlomo Eliezer Schick of the Bratslav Hassidic movement in Yavne’el in the Galilee*was arrested*“for officiating the marriages of some 20 underage couples, mostly ages 12 to 16,” according to Ha’aretz. In Israel, marriage under the age of 17 is illegal. Schick actually has a bit of a following, and even his own nickname “The Mohorosh,” although if he has continued to marry off children, he has been doing it under the radar.
Mishnah - Judaism's Oral Torah - Rabbinic Judaism
Another story of child-brides emerged several years ago in Israels north. Rabbi Shlomo Eliezer Schick of the Bratslav Hassidic movement in Yavneel in the Galilee*was arrested*for officiating the marriages of some 20 underage couples, mostly ages 12 to 16, according to Haaretz. In Israel, marriage under the age of 17 is illegal. Schick actually has a bit of a following, and even his own nickname The Mohorosh, although if he has continued to marry off children, he has been doing it under the radar.
Jewish Child Brides ?*Why the Barbaric Practice of Marrying Off Young Girls Persists ? The Sisterhood ? Forward.com
Another story of child-brides emerged several years ago in Israels north. Rabbi Shlomo Eliezer Schick of the Bratslav Hassidic movement in Yavneel in the Galilee*was arrested*for officiating the marriages of some 20 underage couples, mostly ages 12 to 16, according to Haaretz. In Israel, marriage under the age of 17 is illegal. Schick actually has a bit of a following, and even his own nickname The Mohorosh, although if he has continued to marry off children, he has been doing it under the radar.
Mishnah - Judaism's Oral Torah - Rabbinic Judaism
That reminds me of some of the pseudo Christian cults in the US, like Warren Jeffs, who forced kids into marriage. It's easy to distort religion into a self-serving cult.
Polygamy and Mormonism are inseparably entwined. One of the most offensive aspects of Mormon-based polygamy is the rampant practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. This is precisely what Brian David Mitchell did when he abducted Elizabeth Smart. In the western United States, there are at least 30,000 people involved in the practice of Mormon-based polygamy. In these polygamous groups, the compulsion for underage girls to marry polygamists--usually men much older than themselves--is a part of everyday life. In these communities, girls as young as 12 or 13 are often married off to priesthood leaders. The most powerful and influential of these priesthood holders have first pick of the girls. Parents of the young girls submit their daughters willingly into these unions with the hope of being blessed by God in their afterlife.
Child Brides - Mormon - Polygamy
Polygamy and Mormonism are inseparably entwined. One of the most offensive aspects of Mormon-based polygamy is the rampant practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. This is precisely what Brian David Mitchell did when he abducted Elizabeth Smart. In the western United States, there are at least 30,000 people involved in the practice of Mormon-based polygamy. In these polygamous groups, the compulsion for underage girls to marry polygamists--usually men much older than themselves--is a part of everyday life. In these communities, girls as young as 12 or 13 are often married off to priesthood leaders. The most powerful and influential of these priesthood holders have first pick of the girls. Parents of the young girls submit their daughters willingly into these unions with the hope of being blessed by God in their afterlife.
Child Brides - Mormon - Polygamy
