Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

[Osomir]

Why, Miss Osimir, you first wanted us to believe that the marrying of young girls was because of poverty

1.) culture and social practices are often shaped by socio-economic status and thus poverty in the first place.

2.) I listed several reasons including poverty, weak governmental institutions, and women's rights issues.

It is very nice that you are an educated young Muslim woman and had the opportunity to get ahead in your studies (although we don't know if you are allowed to work)

I'm neither a woman, or a Muslim there champ. Once again your assumptions don't serve you very well.

as Islam did not fix any age for marriage, adding that a married girl does not mean that the husband would be having sexual intercourse with the bride, until she reaches puberty, as witnessed with the marriage of Prophet Muhammad to Nana Aisha.

That's actually incorrect, the Arabic terms used within the Qur'an are not those that refer to prepubescent women. There is also a clear distinction within the Quran between childhood and young adulthood (ashuddah).

 

[Osomir]

Yeah, Muhammad waited until Aisha turned 9.....

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

Apparently that's what Muslims believe. And use it as their justification and model for marrying 8 or 9 years olds.

For some reason Omir has a hard time admitting anything negative abut Muslims or Islam. I wonder why.

While the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are very popular, not all Muslims follow them. You especially should know that having such excellent religious understandings from your time in Iran no? They aren't Shia collections. But you knew that right?

There is also no law that mandates the practice of child marriage within overarching Islamic law sets. there is nothing un-Islamic about waiting until a girl is 18 to have them marry, and suggesting anything contrary does immense damage in the fight against child marriage.

 

[Roudy]

Idiot it is not up to me and you, it is what Muslims believe, and they believe its acceptable because their prophet did so. These are all false comparisons and unrelated statistics in a futile attempt to whitewash obvious problems with Muslim culture, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with economics. It's just plain old pigheaded religious based chauvinism promoted by Islam since the 7th century.

I would use that "thesis" on the plight of women as toilet paper. Phony baloney.

If Islam is the main factor for child marriage then how do you explain the asymmetries in prevalence rates across Islamic populations?

And how do you explain the widespread practice of child marriage within non-Islamic populations?

As a side note, child marriage predates Islam.

The more secular a society, the less instance of child marriage. For example in Iran, during the Shah's reign, child marriage and wearing veils in public was outlawed. Shortly after the Islamists took over, not only did it become legal to marry 9 year olds, but having 4 wives was also legalized, and women HAD to wear veils. And all the women's rights were flushed down the toilet back to the medieval ages. DOH! Not very bright are we?

Omir: "no, this nothing to do Islam or Mohammad, nothing to see here, move along folks, its happening all over the world... Why focus in those poor Muslims?"

"Women's plight" thesis, my arse!

 

[Osomir]

The more secular a society, the less instance of child marriage.

You have to be careful with correlation causation fallacies. States can easily be religious and not have large incidents of child marriage.

 

[Roudy]

Only if you hold the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari to be cannon. Are you secretly a Sunni Muslim?

Apparently that's what Muslims believe. And use it as their justification and model for marrying 8 or 9 years olds.

For some reason Omir has a hard time admitting anything negative abut Muslims or Islam. I wonder why.

While the Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are very popular, not all Muslims follow them. You especially should know that having such excellent religious understandings from your time in Iran no? They aren't Shia collections. But you knew that right?

There is also no law that mandates the practice of child marriage within overarching Islamic law sets. there is nothing un-Islamic about waiting until a girl is 18 to have them marry, and suggesting anything contrary does immense damage in the fight against child marriage.

Dude, do you live your own alternate reality? Muslims are taught to emulate Mohammad's life as an example of a "perfect human being" in every aspect. One of them was that he married an 8 year old, and that he had four wives (well actually 8 but he limited his followers to 4 since he created an exception for himself, he was good at that). And that's why this tradition exists and is legal in many Muslim societies.

Thick as a brick.

 

[Roudy]

The more secular a society, the less instance of child marriage.

You have to be careful with correlation causation fallacies. States can easily be religious and not have large incidents of child marriage.

Which religious Muslim societies have less child brides and more women's rights? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Yemen? Or do you just throw theories at the wall and see which one sticks? Is this how you did research on your thesis? Ha ha ha.

 

[Osomir]

Dude, do you lived your own alternate reality? Muslims are taught to emulate Mohammad's life as an example of a "perfect human being" in every aspect. One of them was that he married an 8 year old

The Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari list the age as 9, changing it to 8 just because that's the age of the girl in the OP is terribly dishonest.

 

[Roudy]

Why, Miss Osimir, you first wanted us to believe that the marrying of young girls was because of poverty

1.) culture and social practices are often shaped by socio-economic status and thus poverty in the first place.

2.) I listed several reasons including poverty, weak governmental institutions, and women's rights issues.

It is very nice that you are an educated young Muslim woman and had the opportunity to get ahead in your studies (although we don't know if you are allowed to work)

I'm neither a woman, or a Muslim there champ. Once again your assumptions don't serve you very well.

as Islam did not fix any age for marriage, adding that a married girl does not mean that the husband would be having sexual intercourse with the bride, until she reaches puberty, as witnessed with the marriage of Prophet Muhammad to Nana Aisha.

That's actually incorrect, the Arabic terms used within the Qur'an are not those that refer to prepubescent women. There is also a clear distinction within the Quran between childhood and young adulthood (ashuddah).

I gots to tell ya, dis mr. Omir is one expert in ze Koran. Jo know vat I means? Ha ha ha.

 

[Osomir]

Which religious Muslim societies have less child brides? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Yemen? Or do you just throw theories at the wall and see which one sticks? Is this how you did research on your thesis? Ha ha ha.

Algeria, Libya and Morocco all spring to mind as Muslim majority countries where the legal age of marriage is 18. Tunisia, Senegal, Eritrea also come to mind (I work in Africa so I know African states the best). Now that's not to say that informal arrangements might not occur, but the formal laws there have age restrictions that are far from nine years old. In fact in terms of formal legal practices, Yemen is the lowest in the world, hardly the standard.

 

[Osomir]

I gots to tell ya, dis mr. Omir is one expert in ze Koran. Jo know vat I means? Ha ha ha.

I work with a lot of Islamic majority countries and populations so it is important for me to have a general understanding of Islamic religious concepts and texts.

 

[Roudy]

Dude, do you lived your own alternate reality? Muslims are taught to emulate Mohammad's life as an example of a "perfect human being" in every aspect. One of them was that he married an 8 year old

The Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari list the age as 9, changing it to 8 just because that's the age of the girl in the OP is terribly dishonest.

It's all over the place, depending. Some say 6 and then he consummated at 8, others say it was 9. Big deal. It even says the poor kid was playing with her dolls when the 54 year old thug prophet showed up to threaten her father into letting him marry her.

By the way an "engagement" in Muslim culture is equivalent to a marriage, almost, minus the copulation. So imagine a 54 year old prophet "proposing" to a clueless 6 year old's father for her hand in marriage. Yuk!

 

[Roudy]

Which religious Muslim societies have less child brides? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Yemen? Or do you just throw theories at the wall and see which one sticks? Is this how you did research on your thesis? Ha ha ha.

Algeria, Libya and Morocco all spring to mind as Muslim majority countries where the legal age of marriage is 18. Tunisia, Senegal, Eritrea also come to mind (I work in Africa so I know African states the best). Now that's not to say that informal arrangements might not occur, but the formal laws there have age restrictions that are far from nine years old. In fact in terms of formal legal practices, Yemen is the lowest in the world, hardly the standard.

Algeria, morocco, Tunisia and Libya aren't (or should, I say weren't) as religious as the ones I mentioned. In fact up to a few decades ago, they were all popular destinations for western tourists. Morocco still is.

 

[Roudy]

I gots to tell ya, dis mr. Omir is one expert in ze Koran. Jo know vat I means? Ha ha ha.

I work with a lot of Islamic majority countries and populations so it is important for me to have a general understanding of Islamic religious concepts and texts.

I bet you do <wink>

What else do you send them? Secret shipments I bet. Or are you know in the "laundry" business, if you get my drift? LOL

 

[Osomir]

It's all over the place, depending. Some he 6 and then he consummated at 8, others say it was 9. Big deal.

The Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari state that they were married at 6 (Aisha was in Ethiopia at the time so they were married apart from each other) and then it was consummated at 9. the "big deal" is that you are intentionally being dishonest so that you can attempt to better link it to the story in the OP.

it's pretty disgusting that you would try to politicize this girl's plight for the sake of promoting your bigotry.

It even says the poor kid was playing with her dolls when the 54 year old thug prophet showed up to threaten her father into letting him marry her.

Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 399 states that during the revelation of the 54th Quranic verse Aisha makes the statement that the revelation came when she was a playful little girl. The 54th Quranic sura occurred no less than 9 years before 622. Which would have made her older than 9 upon marriage and even older upon consummation.

If anything the Sahih Muslim and Bukhari contradict themselves when it comes to Aisha's age, which is pretty normal as the early biographies do the same thing.

 

[Osomir]

Which religious Muslim societies have less child brides? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Yemen? Or do you just throw theories at the wall and see which one sticks? Is this how you did research on your thesis? Ha ha ha.

Algeria, Libya and Morocco all spring to mind as Muslim majority countries where the legal age of marriage is 18. Tunisia, Senegal, Eritrea also come to mind (I work in Africa so I know African states the best). Now that's not to say that informal arrangements might not occur, but the formal laws there have age restrictions that are far from nine years old. In fact in terms of formal legal practices, Yemen is the lowest in the world, hardly the standard.

Algeria, morocco, Tunisia and Libya aren't (or should, I say weren't) as religious as the ones I mentioned. In fact up to a few decades ago, they were all popular destinations for western tourists. Morocco still is.

lol, so they don't count because they're not "Muslim enough" come on, now it's just sad.

 

[Roudy]

It's all over the place, depending. Some he 6 and then he consummated at 8, others say it was 9. Big deal.

The Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari state that they were married at 6 (Aisha was in Ethiopia at the time so they were married apart from each other) and then it was consummated at 9. the "big deal" is that you are intentionally being dishonest so that you can attempt to better link it to the story in the OP.

it's pretty disgusting that you would try to politicize this girl's plight for the sake of promoting your bigotry.

It even says the poor kid was playing with her dolls when the 54 year old thug prophet showed up to threaten her father into letting him marry her.

Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 399 states that during the revelation of the 54th Quranic verse Aisha makes the statement that the revelation came when she was a playful little girl. The 54th Quranic sura occurred no less than 9 years before 622. Which would have made her older than 9 upon marriage and even older upon consummation.

If anything the Sahih Muslim and Bukhari contradict themselves when it comes to Aisha's age, which is pretty normal as the early biographies do the same thing.

The entire Koran contradicts itself. What can we expect from an illiterate thug who hijacked Judaism and Christianity without being able to read a single word of their hoy books, and then comment and criticize it? Back then it was the meanest most brutal dog on the block with the right street smarts that ruled and was feared and respected by the rest of the desert savages, and that's exactly what Moe was.

 

[Coyote]

Gotta be a muslim.

In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Child marriage is one of those nasty side effects of weak governmental institutions coupled with extreme poverty. It's horrible stuff.

An intelligent poster.

Whilst child marriage is clearly a problem as big as it is nasty in some Muslim countries, it also happens far too often in other cultures.
Sometimes it's poverty whist others do it for cultural reasons.
Many such cultures, perhaps the Mosuo being the strangest, are totally alien to western norms and many would consider their ideal of 'walking marriage' very strange indeed.

Basically, for the less than well educated, a girl becomes a potential sexual partner after her first period, will take as many lovers as she wishes during her life but never marry.
Kids are brought up by the women and men have absolutely no say in anything outside farming.

To actual child marriage.
As we'll see from the map, the spread is far greater in poorer countries than in richer ones.
Unlike the dafter poster (Sub quoted), if we use our brains, we see the problem isn't a Muslim one but one of social group and lack of cash.

I am guessing that the Muslim-haters and their groupies did not bother to look at that map you posted. A number of the countries are not Muslim.

That won't make any difference in the anti-Muslim hatefest, but that is a good post

 

[Roudy]

Algeria, Libya and Morocco all spring to mind as Muslim majority countries where the legal age of marriage is 18. Tunisia, Senegal, Eritrea also come to mind (I work in Africa so I know African states the best). Now that's not to say that informal arrangements might not occur, but the formal laws there have age restrictions that are far from nine years old. In fact in terms of formal legal practices, Yemen is the lowest in the world, hardly the standard.

Algeria, morocco, Tunisia and Libya aren't (or should, I say weren't) as religious as the ones I mentioned. In fact up to a few decades ago, they were all popular destinations for western tourists. Morocco still is.

lol, so they don't count because they're not "Muslim enough" come on, now it's just sad.

It isn't, you are trying to prove to me that "some of the more religious Muslim societies offer better rights to women and have less instances of child brides", remember?
So where is it?

Epic fail.

 

[Osomir]

The entire Koran contradicts itself. What can we expect from an illiterate thug who hijacked Judaism and Christianity without being able to read a single word of their hoy books, and then comment and criticize it?

The Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim aren't part of the Quran, nor was anything that I posted. Nor did Muhammad write them, in fact they weren't compiled until almost 200 years after his death. How can you pretend to be well versed in this stuff and not know that?

That's really basic stuff.

 

[Roudy]

In Yemen? Most likely. Child marriage happens in many non-Islamic majority countries as well though (it is a big problem in parts of Southern Africa, and the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). It is also a large problem in India.

Child marriage is one of those nasty side effects of weak governmental institutions coupled with extreme poverty. It's horrible stuff.

An intelligent poster.

Whilst child marriage is clearly a problem as big as it is nasty in some Muslim countries, it also happens far too often in other cultures.
Sometimes it's poverty whist others do it for cultural reasons.
Many such cultures, perhaps the Mosuo being the strangest, are totally alien to western norms and many would consider their ideal of 'walking marriage' very strange indeed.

Basically, for the less than well educated, a girl becomes a potential sexual partner after her first period, will take as many lovers as she wishes during her life but never marry.
Kids are brought up by the women and men have absolutely no say in anything outside farming.

To actual child marriage.
As we'll see from the map, the spread is far greater in poorer countries than in richer ones.
Unlike the dafter poster (Sub quoted), if we use our brains, we see the problem isn't a Muslim one but one of social group and lack of cash.

I am guessing that the Muslim-haters and their groupies did not bother to look at that map you posted. A number of the countries are not Muslim.

That won't make any difference in the anti-Muslim hatefest, but that is a good post

It's not a hate fest, it is a fact of life. Child brides and lack of women's rights are not exclusive but prevalent in Muslim societies, and that is mainly due to religious influences which have become part of the culture. The more religious and Islamic, the more child abuse and less women's rights. Another fact. We can run but we can't hide. It is what it is. Making up excuses or false comparisons just won't do. It is simply because They are emulating Mohammad, who married a 9 year old.