China to provide military aid to Russia

[beagle9]

Russia has always had expansionist goals, as evidenced by Ukraine.
If we let Ukraine fall it will only be rhe beginning.
China is also watching.
If we let Ukraine fall it will probably invade China to invade Taiiwan.

Expansionist goals over Ukraine ?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Maybe reading up a book or two about WW2 - might enlighten you or at least help to refresh your memory.

The Axis only became a war enemy due to Imperial Japan having attacked the USA
NAZI Germany and Fascist Italy had only become a war enemy due to having declared war onto the USA (in conjunction with the Imperial Japanese attack)

Why did NAZI Germany and Facist Italy declare war onto the USA? because parts of the US industry and government had supported with huge quantities their respective enemies in the previous 3 years.

Why is China an enemy? when did they ever attack the USA or threaten the USA with war?
China is simply growing into a serious economic competitor towards the USA's economic global domination interests. And global economics automatically behold global politics.

Your burger shop is loosing customers to the new one opposite the road, mostly due to his agressive marketing and far cheaper offers- so you are going to get your gun (which you claim to have purchased for self-defense purposes only) and threaten to shoot him? or instigate another burger shop owner to do it for you? BTW it was you and your business-partners who gave your arising competitor the initial know-how and hardware - whilst bragging about making good businees with the dummy.

We had been in an undeclared war with the Germans in the North Atlantic.

We fought the Chinese in Korea.

I highlighted your typos for you.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They knowingly stepped up investing into a totalitarian country possessing a ruthless racist motivated government (from 1933 - to 1939) that was knowingly preparing for war.

GM isn't dangerously involved in China at all - since 2009. They went bankrupt and China state bank and Shanghai (SAIC) bailed them out, subsequently in 2012 taking over the shareholder majority of SAIC-GM. In the meantime it has become a 100% independent Chinese company, belonging to China's largest automaker SAIC-Motors. I

I caught you lying again!

The joint Chinese-GM company is owned 51% by China and 49% GM.

"SAIC General Motors Sales Co., Ltd. is a joint venture between GM China and SAIC Motor that was established on November 25, 2011. GM China has a 49 percent stake and SAIC Motor a 51 percent stake."
file:///C:/Users/Glenn/Downloads/General%20Motors%20China%20(1).pdf

 

[MagicMike]

Expansionist goals over Ukraine ?

Yes

 

[MagicMike]

Has he said that ? If no evidence of it, then are you just parroting media frenzy over the issue ?? Heck what can anyone believe anymore ? I don't trust NOTHING

If you think that China will become in subjection to America after or over Ukraine, and after what the world has seen that we now demonstrate, and upon just how deplorable we've become in our culture, then I've got some ocean front property in AZ for sale cheap you can get..

The only thing that we can do in the immediate, is to sweep off our own porch before we go dirtying up anyone else's porches with our new craziness shown, and then telling them that they had best clean up their mess without considering our own character in the process..

WTF?????

 

[Kruska]

So, you have another perspective on China. Okay, China isn't so bad as some Western outlets depict it? There is no political oppression, ethnic oppression, the Covid restrictions didn't go behind the levels of insanity?

China is nowhere near as to what the Western mainstream media propagates. That there is political oppression can't be denied. After-all it is more or less a one party state - just as Singapore. However neither in China nor in Singapore - opposing opinions (based on factual reasons) are suppressed - what is suppressed are baseless or opinionated/falsified/unproven statements towards government practice or daily occurrences in live. So indeed a Trump would be arrested in China such as his alike Bo Xilai was. The same would go for rioters that storm government buildings.

People/citizens that protest peacefully (every year there are thousands of such protests in China) against e.g. dubious bank practices - have never been arrested, unless they act violent via destroying private or state property or attacking security personal.
To my knowledge their is no ethnic oppression in China - actually quite the contrary is the case in regards towards other non-Han ethnics. they receive far more social/financial support then Han Chinese.

The Uighur issue has it's proven roots in terrorism conducted against ALL ethnics living in China. Tens of Thousands of Chinese civilians of all ethnics died or were maimed due to such terrorist activities carried out during an almost 20 year period that reached it's height in 2014. It is also proven that the vast majority of those attacks were financed by outside countries - especially those harboring radical factions of Turcic heritage and being Turcic related countries.
Instead of getting into a war - such as the USA in Afghanistan (due to some 3000 dead Americans) and destroying an entire country without achieving anything - and then simply moving out, China decided to battle the roots of this cause.
The cause simply was based in poor education - poor economy, a partially non-willing integrating society and a radicalization of a very specific religion, especially in the vast rural areas of the Xinjiang region.

Well one can ask nicely for these people to get themselves willingly towards such changes or program. worked out superbly in Afghanistan - right?
China clearly decided to use force towards those not willing to participate. Erected prison camps for those susceptible or proven to be Islamic fundamentalists willing to use force and Compounds to enhance education and a profession which will allow these people to participate successfully in the economy and general society of China.
That there are "irregularities" occurring in those prisons and compounds can't be out-ruled - just as in the US justice system - aka prisons or police brutality on the street.

Those famous cases propagated in obvious Anti-China medias, e.g. an alleged raped women - well there is enough evidence in regards to very known "accusers" that they harbored a rather anti-social lifestyle. - even in reference to what we Westerners would term such a lifestyle. prostitution, drugs, syndicate members, no job and in overall opposition to any government or general society accepted policy. That many of these "victims" were paid and or blackmailed in order to state these allegations is also known.
But again no system on earth can guarantee or out-rule cases of injustice or irregularities.

Forced abortion or sterilization - yes for sure. There are clear laws in China in place regulating the number of children. Whilst Han-Chinese were only permitted one child - ALL ethnic minorities including Uighur's, were permitted to have three or in certain cases four children. If a person such as a known Uighur women comes up with 7 children and can't even provide a basic financial security for these kids, clearly the government steps in. If a certain lifestyle also comes into the picture and the clear unwillingness of a women to accept social standards - a sterilization is performed.

Religious freedom is granted in China even via it's constitution - there is absolutely no persecution towards religion as such. If however a Mullah is caught propagating Jihad he will definitely face harsh consequences. Same goes for a Lama propagating that the Indian Dalai Lama is the only true one to rule Tibet - he will be arrested, since this is a political statement and has nothing to do with religion. In general the Chinese population are ethicists and rather give someone a OMG look who propagates the existence of a God. E.g. Islam or Christianity. They far more believe and practice a more social-cultured-centered philosophy rather then a religion - very important are spirits and demons.

Covid; no problem for me at all - even those weeks or month were I had to line up (very well organized) every day or later every three days, average waiting time 5 minutes.
At least the government was taking protective actions - compared to almost none in other countries - e.g. Germany. China offered voluntary vaccination - only compulsory for anyone in state service or those wanting to travel outside of China. According to the Western mindset - these dictatorial commies would have made it compulsory for everyone, Well they did not. If the Chinese stuff works better or less then Western vaccines - I wouldn't know, I am not a virology expert or PhD.

After more then 2 years of tough actions towards a spread of the virus - and a more and more discontent population - due to economic hardship - the government found it right, justifiable to ease, cancel these restrictions, so?
Anyone of my relations or close friends (around 50 people) none died - despite being positive no symptoms or like me and my wife one day that felt like having a normal cold. Our daughter - nothing. However from people related to state-company HR issues - I am aware that the vast majority, if not all that died - were retired folks plagued with serious other health implications.

 

[Mac-7]

what is suppressed are baseless or opinionated/falsified/unproven statements towards government practice or daily occurrences in live.

You sound like a guy I used to know from Pakistan who told me the media in his country was free to print the truth

And the dictatorship decided what was true and what wasnt

 

[Kruska]

You sound like a guy I used to know from Pakistan who told me the media in his country was free to print the truth

And the dictatorship decided what was true and what wasnt

Your Pakistani friend is ABSOLUTELY correct.

So one need to live in a respective country for many, many years - better decades, in order to find out if the government tells/propagates the truth.
As for China - the government is definitely far more on the truth. China's government has one huge policy - they prefer the downplay of incidents/occurrences rather then to allow for meaningless - and errant open discussions which are primarily exploited by those who are not interested in the truth - but just want to create chaos.

In contra to the DEMOCRATIC and FREEDOM propagating USA - were a simple issue as an election and it's result, become a never-ending topic for speculation and debate.
Despite the present democratic US government propagating that they won the election fair and square. OMG are they lying? or are the others lying? well keep discussing about an issue that everyone outside the USA finds laughable. A Superpower can't even properly handle a national election.

Does China's government intent to ridicule themselves to the world? by allowing a platform for such discussions? - certainly not.

 

[ESay]

Your Pakistani friend is ABSOLUTELY correct.

So one need to live in a respective country for many, many years - better decades, in order to find out if the government tells/propagates the truth.
As for China - the government is definitely far more on the truth. China's government has one huge policy - they prefer the downplay of incidents/occurrences rather then to allow for meaningless - and errant open discussions which are primarily exploited by those who are not interested in the truth - but just want to create chaos.

In contra to the DEMOCRATIC and FREEDOM propagating USA - were a simple issue as an election and it's result, become a never-ending topic for speculation and debate.
Despite the present democratic US government propagating that they won the election fair and square. OMG are they lying? or are the others lying? well keep discussing about an issue that everyone outside the USA finds laughable. A Superpower can't even properly handle a national election.

Does China's government intent to ridicule themselves to the world? by allowing a platform for such discussions? - certainly not.

Well, I also think that your post was more about justification of China's ruling regime than actually refuting the Western narratives about China's political and social system.

There is oppression of free speech and strict one party rule? So what, it prevents from chaos and turmoil. There is oppression of ethnic regions? But the government fights against terrorism and look at the benefits these regions have. Okay, anyway it is your opinion and you have a right on it.

What can you say about China's society as a whole? I have heard it is 'cruel'. That is true? Some years ago the story was circulating about a driver that ran over a kid and no one of passers and drivers by stopped to offer any help.

A total lack of compassion. Or is that another stereotype?

 

[Kruska]

.... Some years ago the story was circulating about a driver that ran over a kid and no one of passers and drivers by stopped to offer any help.

A total lack of compassion. Or is that another stereotype?

You mean that this kind of incident only occurs in China? The same behavior of people or bystanders also sadly occurs in Germany and any other country.
There was a similar incident some weeks ago were dozens of people came to the aid and helped to lift up a passenger car off the road - so that the child could be rescued.
Did the Western mainstream media report about that? No offcourse not - since it doesn't fit the narrative, it also doesn't sell.

During my time in the German armed forces, I was numerous times in the USA. 4 times I was also in Colorado, and during three of those visits, every-time a country-western bar in Colorado Springs was burned down. In one of these bar-fights I got involuntarily involved myself. So should I now propagate that all Americans are prone to bar-violence and arson?

My father was threatened by a 12 year old kid with a BB gun on his own porch in Colorado - after he had asked the kid politely to refrain form driving around his property on a motor cross bike making a hell of noise. I was there myself. After I had slapped the bugger and took away his gun (he or his father called the sheriff) just before the sheriff arrived, the kids father showed up and started to point a real rifle at me, standing on my fathers property, whilst cussing and cursing all kind of obscenities (great performance for the kids future development).

So should I now propagate that all Americans are prone to gun violence? that they all got no hold onto their kids behavior, that all Americans can't talk a single sentence without using four letter words and obscene language? That all Americans don't respect private property? That all Americans lack in any decent and civilized manners?

But this is exactly the mainstream picture that is painted in China in regards to Americans, and rest assured in Germany and so many other countries. Since Trump and now Biden, it's gotten worse in China. Luckily far more Chinese have been to the USA, then Americans been to China. Therefore many Chinese are able to distinguish between the different social groups within the American society. However these Chinese are nowhere near a majority of China's population.
If it serves a certain political narrative - rest assured that any countries government is exploiting such occurrences to their political benefit to the utmost, totally independent of being a democratic or autocratic country.

 

[ESay]

You mean that this kind of incident only occurs in China? The same behavior of people or bystanders also sadly occurs in Germany and any other country.
There was a similar incident some weeks ago were dozens of people came to the aid and helped to lift up a passenger car off the road - so that the child could be rescued.
Did the Western mainstream media report about that? No offcourse not - since it doesn't fit the narrative, it also doesn't sell.

During my time in the German armed forces, I was numerous times in the USA. 4 times I was also in Colorado, and during three of those visits, every-time a country-western bar in Colorado Springs was burned down. In one of these bar-fights I got involuntarily involved myself. So should I now propagate that all Americans are prone to bar-violence and arson?

My father was threatened by a 12 year old kid with a BB gun on his own porch in Colorado - after he had asked the kid politely to refrain form driving around his property on a motor cross bike making a hell of noise. I was there myself. After I had slapped the bugger and took away his gun (he or his father called the sheriff) just before the sheriff arrived, the kids father showed up and started to point a real rifle at me, standing on my fathers property, whilst cussing and cursing all kind of obscenities (great performance for the kids future development).

So should I now propagate that all Americans are prone to gun violence? that they all got no hold onto their kids behavior, that all Americans can't talk a single sentence without using four letter words and obscene language? That all Americans don't respect private property? That all Americans lack in any decent and civilized manners?

But this is exactly the mainstream picture that is painted in China in regards to Americans, and rest assured in Germany and so many other countries. Since Trump and now Biden, it's gotten worse in China. Luckily far more Chinese have been to the USA, then Americans been to China. Therefore many Chinese are able to distinguish between the different social groups within the American society. However these Chinese are nowhere near a majority of China's population.
If it serves a certain political narrative - rest assured that any countries government is exploiting such occurrences to their political benefit to the utmost, totally independent of being a democratic or autocratic country.

Of course my intention wasn't to brush 'all' people being based on a single incident or some 'there are bad and good people' stuff or that it couldn't happen here or there. That story made noise inside China too, at least that is how I perceived that. And the main reason of discussing this story then was that that kind of behaviour was too common in China.

Like your memories about the US and guns. You can all speculate about reasons that cause gun violence there, regulations, bad people etc etc, but the fact remains still - the US has gun violence that far higher than those of Europe. And stories about senseless shootings like the one over sprinkling windscreen washers are quite common.

 

[JoeC]

I just read an article that China is calling for a cease fire between Russia and Ucrane.

Are they giving themselves cover?

 

[Kruska]

Of course my intention wasn't to brush 'all' people being based on a single incident or some 'there are bad and good people' stuff or that it couldn't happen here or there. That story made noise inside China too, at least that is how I perceived that. And the main reason of discussing this story then was that that kind of behaviour was too common in China.

Like your memories about the US and guns. You can all speculate about reasons that cause gun violence there, regulations, bad people etc etc, but the fact remains still - the US has gun violence that far higher than those of Europe. And stories about senseless shootings like the one over sprinkling windscreen washers are quite common.

There are an estimated 150 million people living in China with an income on the poverty line with an extreme low education and social competence.
There are a further estimated 300 million people who just barley make a basic living - with a rather low education and social competence.
To say it in American language; the vast majority of these 450-500 million people couldn't give a shit about someone dropping dead next to them on the road.

Luckily these 450-500 million people do not represent the majority of the Chinese population in regards to social competence or general behavior.

As for US gun violence - I think the reasons for it are well known. And even though the US is a democratic society (majority supposedly rules) - laws and government-programs to eradicate this issue are simply not in place - despite the majority of US citizens being in it's favor. It is one of many examples that clearly show that a democratic government is lastly controlled by known power groups. Too many people harbor the thought that being able to hang a shield round ones neck - stating Trump or Biden is an a .... represents freedom of speech and as such democracy.

The US public was never asked about agreeing towards Bush. jun attacking Iraq, neither in regards to attacking Afghanistan, nor in regards to supplying weapons or billions to Ukraine and so on. Neither was the German public asked about reunification and it's process, nor about introducing speed-limits, or taking in millions of refugees.
Every major decision of impact toward a democratic society is simply enacted by power-groups and their respective political lobbies. Finalized by the so called government.

And please don't start up now with congressmen and senators or whoever enacted by and representing the people ... bla, bla. bla.

The only country in the world to my knowledge - that practices real democracy, is only Switzerland. Any new law or decision by the Swiss government needs to be approved by the people starting with the community pols - right down to national pols in regards to major decision impacting it's citizens. As such to me any country that does not behold the Swiss system simply isn't democratic at all, it only represents a political system that is far easier to control by elites and lobbies and is designed to exclude the normal citizen.

 

[Mac-7]

Your Pakistani friend is ABSOLUTELY correct.

My pakistan friend was not correct

Given the opportunity every government that ever existed will cover up its mistakes and lie about its successes

A free snd independent media will uncover the truth and inform the public

America has strayed from that ideal beginning with the radicalized pro left baby boomer mainstream media that works hand-in-glove with the Deep State and the democrat party.

But there are still a minority of independent journalists who tell both sides of the story through the internet

Or at least the dirty secrets that the government wants to keep hidden

Your beloved communist china - aka the CCP - is far worse

There is no free press and public knowledge is tightly controlled

And the chinese dictatorship has far worse to cover up

 

[beagle9]

WTF?????

Again, has he said that or implied that or insinuated that or what ? What is your proof ?

 

[Kruska]

I just read an article that China is calling for a cease fire between Russia and Ucrane.

Are they giving themselves cover?

You can read up China's proposal and judge for yourself

China’s Position on the Political Settlement of the Ukraine Crisis

www.fmprc.gov.cn

 

[JoeC]

I just did a cursory perusal of the document.Seems sensible to me.More like they are telling both parties to back off and sit down and talk.

Exactly the opposite of what the warmongering Democrats are wanting.

 

[ESay]

There are an estimated 150 million people living in China with an income on the poverty line with an extreme low education and social competence.
There are a further estimated 300 million people who just barley make a basic living - with a rather low education and social competence.
To say it in American language; the vast majority of these 450-500 million people couldn't give a shit about someone dropping dead next to them on the road.

Luckily these 450-500 million people do not represent the majority of the Chinese population in regards to social competence or general behavior.

As for US gun violence - I think the reasons for it are well known. And even though the US is a democratic society (majority supposedly rules) - laws and government-programs to eradicate this issue are simply not in place - despite the majority of US citizens being in it's favor. It is one of many examples that clearly show that a democratic government is lastly controlled by known power groups. Too many people harbor the thought that being able to hang a shield round ones neck - stating Trump or Biden is an a .... represents freedom of speech and as such democracy.

The US public was never asked about agreeing towards Bush. jun attacking Iraq, neither in regards to attacking Afghanistan, nor in regards to supplying weapons or billions to Ukraine and so on. Neither was the German public asked about reunification and it's process, nor about introducing speed-limits, or taking in millions of refugees.
Every major decision of impact toward a democratic society is simply enacted by power-groups and their respective political lobbies. Finalized by the so called government.

And please don't start up now with congressmen and senators or whoever enacted by and representing the people ... bla, bla. bla.

The only country in the world to my knowledge - that practices real democracy, is only Switzerland. Any new law or decision by the Swiss government needs to be approved by the people starting with the community pols - right down to national pols in regards to major decision impacting it's citizens. As such to me any country that does not behold the Swiss system simply isn't democratic at all, it only represents a political system that is far easier to control by elites and lobbies and is designed to exclude the normal citizen.

Well, you want to cover a too wide theme. The Western social and political model and, let's call it, Chinese model.

There is no point to argue whether there is some ideal model or not. There is not. Switzerland is an exception from this rule and I doubt it can be applied to much bigger states.

Of course, in the West there is political corruption, big businesses buying officials for their benefit, police brutality and ineffectiveness, MSM corporations serving interests of the ruling elite, unpopular decisions and so on and on. This model is far from ideal.

But nevertheless, I consider it the best that our world has today and what can guarantee personal freedoms, at least as I view them.

Maybe you have a different point and different reasoning. After living in China for so long, you can compare two systems being based on your own experience. But from my ignorant point of view, I would choose the Western model on every day of a week.

 

[Likkmee]

 

[Kruska]

America has strayed from that ideal beginning with the radicalized pro left baby boomer mainstream media that works hand-in-glove with the Deep State and the democrat party.

OMG - well it was nice anyway to have kind of met you.

But there are still a minority of independent journalists who tell both sides of the story through the internet

The word "independent" is already a joke - combined with the word "journalist" it becomes a laugh

Or at least the dirty secrets that the government wants to keep hidden

You honestly believe that people in China - due to a censored press - wouldn't know as to what is going on?
One doesn't need an official media for that - that is simply for lazy or stupid people. Or those who select Medias according to their personal propagated preference.

China is totally into live stream chats - any, and no matter what ridiculous topic appears, are being discussed about - the people are in a frenzy about it.
Ask my wife - I usually always walk away before she gets a chance to start.

However you can be sure that once "falsified" or "misleading" information is spread - the government will close down those respective chats. And also search for those responsible.

The main issue for the last couple of weeks - was the disappearance of a 15 year old boarding school boy. He had vanished for three month and speculations were running about an organ crime mafia, involving the local government that supposedly initiated a huge coverup. This issue was publicly discussed throughout China for almost 2 month.

You got absolutely no clue as to the real situation in China.