China to provide military aid to Russia

[Kruska]

I seem to recall that the same could be said of Japan before Dec 7th of 1941.

Imperial Japan had been on an expansionist war path occupying other countries territory (China and Russia) and causing the death of millions since 1880 in Asia - In order to prevent a further rise of Imperial Japans dominance towards the Pacific, (loads of disputed islands due to Japan and the USA having taken over the majority of the former Imperial German Pacific colonies) - right down to Papua New Guinea, the USA decided to place embargoes onto them.- Which in turn resulted in the Japanese attack onto the USA.

The CCP is building multiple bases in international waters and is making claims to areas that are also in international waters.

The building of artificial islands is contra to the UNCLOS regulation - I had already stated this. So is the Japanese action of transporting cement 2000 miles away from their homeland to maintain an artificial landmark claim in the Pacific. The transaction of private owned islands to the Japanese government - also defies UNCLOS and UN regulations. One can claim as much as one wants to - only if military force is used to enforce such claims it becomes an act of war - China has militarily not enforced any claims - they simply went there and started building. Vietnamese naval vessels enter disputed areas all the time and so does China - no one has fired a shot or went to war.

You seem to assume that if the US "minds its own business" that the CCP will not choose to become aggressive.

I don't just simply assume that - China has not engaged in a war in any dispute since 1980. FACT - 40+ years of peace.

They've already shown they are a rising power

They are indeed a rising power -so ?

and will be willing to use force to continue that rise.

Where have they stated this? it is only the USA who falsely claims that.

Considering their record on basic human rights, I'd say it is perfectly acceptable to assume they mean harm to anyone they cannot control.

No proof, just a baseless assumption solely upheld by democratic lead countries. It's is however proven that a democratic USA/NATO means harm to anyone they can't control - a dozen wars since 1980 proof this.

Ask the Uyghurs if they trust the CCP.

You can read up my previous post in regards to the Uighur issue. Ask e.g. the Afghans if they trust the USA or NATO or democracy who completely destroyed their country.

 

[scruffy]

China does what we do and we get pissed.

We do more than provide parts.

We actually guide the drones.

 

[scruffy]

China is nowhere near as to what the Western mainstream media propagates. That there is political oppression can't be denied. After-all it is more or less a one party state - just as Singapore. However neither in China nor in Singapore - opposing opinions (based on factual reasons) are suppressed - what is suppressed are baseless or opinionated/falsified/unproven statements towards government practice or daily occurrences in live. So indeed a Trump would be arrested in China such as his alike Bo Xilai was. The same would go for rioters that storm government buildings.

People/citizens that protest peacefully (every year there are thousands of such protests in China) against e.g. dubious bank practices - have never been arrested, unless they act violent via destroying private or state property or attacking security personal.
To my knowledge their is no ethnic oppression in China - actually quite the contrary is the case in regards towards other non-Han ethnics. they receive far more social/financial support then Han Chinese.

The Uighur issue has it's proven roots in terrorism conducted against ALL ethnics living in China. Tens of Thousands of Chinese civilians of all ethnics died or were maimed due to such terrorist activities carried out during an almost 20 year period that reached it's height in 2014. It is also proven that the vast majority of those attacks were financed by outside countries - especially those harboring radical factions of Turcic heritage and being Turcic related countries.
Instead of getting into a war - such as the USA in Afghanistan (due to some 3000 dead Americans) and destroying an entire country without achieving anything - and then simply moving out, China decided to battle the roots of this cause.
The cause simply was based in poor education - poor economy, a partially non-willing integrating society and a radicalization of a very specific religion, especially in the vast rural areas of the Xinjiang region.

Well one can ask nicely for these people to get themselves willingly towards such changes or program. worked out superbly in Afghanistan - right?
China clearly decided to use force towards those not willing to participate. Erected prison camps for those susceptible or proven to be Islamic fundamentalists willing to use force and Compounds to enhance education and a profession which will allow these people to participate successfully in the economy and general society of China.
That there are "irregularities" occurring in those prisons and compounds can't be out-ruled - just as in the US justice system - aka prisons or police brutality on the street.

Those famous cases propagated in obvious Anti-China medias, e.g. an alleged raped women - well there is enough evidence in regards to very known "accusers" that they harbored a rather anti-social lifestyle. - even in reference to what we Westerners would term such a lifestyle. prostitution, drugs, syndicate members, no job and in overall opposition to any government or general society accepted policy. That many of these "victims" were paid and or blackmailed in order to state these allegations is also known.
But again no system on earth can guarantee or out-rule cases of injustice or irregularities.

Forced abortion or sterilization - yes for sure. There are clear laws in China in place regulating the number of children. Whilst Han-Chinese were only permitted one child - ALL ethnic minorities including Uighur's, were permitted to have three or in certain cases four children. If a person such as a known Uighur women comes up with 7 children and can't even provide a basic financial security for these kids, clearly the government steps in. If a certain lifestyle also comes into the picture and the clear unwillingness of a women to accept social standards - a sterilization is performed.

Religious freedom is granted in China even via it's constitution - there is absolutely no persecution towards religion as such. If however a Mullah is caught propagating Jihad he will definitely face harsh consequences. Same goes for a Lama propagating that the Indian Dalai Lama is the only true one to rule Tibet - he will be arrested, since this is a political statement and has nothing to do with religion. In general the Chinese population are ethicists and rather give someone a OMG look who propagates the existence of a God. E.g. Islam or Christianity. They far more believe and practice a more social-cultured-centered philosophy rather then a religion - very important are spirits and demons.

Covid; no problem for me at all - even those weeks or month were I had to line up (very well organized) every day or later every three days, average waiting time 5 minutes.
At least the government was taking protective actions - compared to almost none in other countries - e.g. Germany. China offered voluntary vaccination - only compulsory for anyone in state service or those wanting to travel outside of China. According to the Western mindset - these dictatorial commies would have made it compulsory for everyone, Well they did not. If the Chinese stuff works better or less then Western vaccines - I wouldn't know, I am not a virology expert or PhD.

After more then 2 years of tough actions towards a spread of the virus - and a more and more discontent population - due to economic hardship - the government found it right, justifiable to ease, cancel these restrictions, so?
Anyone of my relations or close friends (around 50 people) none died - despite being positive no symptoms or like me and my wife one day that felt like having a normal cold. Our daughter - nothing. However from people related to state-company HR issues - I am aware that the vast majority, if not all that died - were retired folks plagued with serious other health implications.

You're not telling us anything we didn't know, you're just trying to sugar coat it and no one's buying.

I know the Chinese, I married one. You can't say anything bad about the CCP, but I can. I could tell you stories that'd make your hair curl up into an afro.

I can tell you all KINDS of things about the CCP's political activities in NYC, including but not limited to money laundering, drug dealing, gambling, and prostitution.

The safety protocols were relaxed in Wuhan BY THE CCP because they wanted work product faster. Proto-fucking-typical for dumbass shit for brains politicians.

 

[scruffy]

.

Where is there or has been a factual "expansion" by China onto their neighbors in the past 40 years?
.

Dude, you just said so yourself.

Annexation of Tibet?

Duh?

Hello?

 

[georgephillip]

Communist China didnt have a pot to piss in till the mid ‘90’s when America (and the euro’s) began trading with them

And whatever technology china has was stolen from the West

What has the West stolen from China over the past two centuries? Nixon and Kissinger opened to door and Clinton sealed the deal; the US Empire is in decline and China is rising:

The US is heavily reliant on China and Russia for its ammo supply chain. Congress wants to fix that.

 

[Kruska]

Dude, you just said so yourself.

Annexation of Tibet?

Duh?

Hello?

So you know everything about China and you claim to know what happen in Wuhan and you got intimate knowledge about CCP activities in NY - great
But you don't know when the Tibet annexation happened - I promise you it wasn't in the past 40 years. And there is already a long time no more CCP but a CPC since?

 

[Mac-7]

What has the West stolen from China over the past two centuries? Nixon and Kissinger opened to door and Clinton sealed the deal; the US Empire is in decline and China is rising:

The US is heavily reliant on China and Russia for its ammo supply chain. Congress wants to fix that.

Two centuries?

Not much

If you want to extend that a bit farther there is gunpowder

But very little of importance is being invented in china today

Which is typical of communist dictatorships

China is a monkey-see, monkey-do nation that needs the west for innovation

 

[beagle9]

What has the West stolen from China over the past two centuries? Nixon and Kissinger opened to door and Clinton sealed the deal; the US Empire is in decline and China is rising:

The US is heavily reliant on China and Russia for its ammo supply chain. Congress wants to fix that.

Bill Clinton was the biggest national security threat this nation has ever had until Biden. Bill and his lackey's should be imprisoned for what they've done to this NATION.

Not sure if we can recover now.

Way to much dependency, and our enemies know it because we created it out of greed. The sell out of this Nations security and treasure has been monumental.

Funny how Clinton's name came up in your post, but I wasn't surprised at all. I know the damage he has done. Now Biden is fumbling and bumbling around, and causing us to be the joke of the world who is laughing at us and our ridiculous bull crap big time.

But here we are with our not so mentally stable leader's who are in control of a modern military with nukes, and are acting as if they are on some kind of suicide mission leading up to a possible all out war in the world over bordering nation's with Russia and China now.

How would we feel if either of these nation's R-or-C went to war with any country bordering the United States ???? We would think that if the bordering country fell, then we would be next. So undoubtedly we look at Ukraine in a way that if it falls, the NATO countries are next right ??? Would Russia go after NATO if Ukraine falls ???? Wouldn't that be suicide for Russia and the world due to the nukes ?? Is Russia that stupid ?? The rhetoric suggest that Russia is this stupid, but are they really that stupid ?

How does anyone prove to us that Russia is stupid enough to fight NATO for an edge on the world stage, and for first place in the power play taking place in the world today ?

Wanting the Soviet Union to be reborn as is the claim of many on Putin, but does that endanger any NATO nation ??? Is this Putin wanting to bring back the dividing lines that kept Russia strong in security when it was the Soviet Union ???

Is it unattainable for Russia to want such a thing or is it possible that he would want such a thing and be going for it ?

We hear all the rhetoric, but what is the truth ?

 

[beagle9]

Two centuries?

Not much

If you want to extend that a bit farther there is gunpowder

But very little of importance is being invented in china today

Which is typical of communist dictatorships

China is a monkey-see, monkey-do nation that needs the west for innovation

Hmmm, if this is true then they are damned good at the monkey-see monkey-do stuff, but I digress.

Mac, do you really think that Asian's aren't smart people, especially when they whoop ace in college scores and are usually at the top of the class due to their discipline and upraising in which the privileged one's get ???

 

[Mac-7]

Hmmm, if this is true then they are damned good at the monkey-see monkey-do stuff, but I digress.

Its really simple

A western company with advanced technology wants to manufacture in china and sell the goods in the west

In order to do so they have to have a 50% chinese partner

Then to get the quality western consumers expect they have to teach the chinese how to make the product

After that numerous chinese companies will learn the secrets and be able to compete

 

[Mac-7]

Mac, do you really think that Asian's aren't smart people, especially when they whoop ace in college scores and are usually at the top of the class due to their discipline and upraising in which the privileged one's get ???

They are very smart but the culture in communist china does not reward innovation

Look what happened to the founder of Alibaba when he became too successful and a rival to Xi and the CCP

He is virtually under house arrest

 

[ESay]

China did not pursue or instigate any war - neither overseas nor in it's immediate neighborhood, in the past 40 years. Therefore it is an absolute peaceful country.
China has witnessed and experienced war/ civil-war and devastation in it's own homeland almost continuously from 1880 - 1949 plus the losses due to the Korean war. Unlike the USA who never had to experience that. It's the primary reason why the USA is so easy going towards making war - in other countries.

You are too much into past history - There is no more SU since the past 30 years. So a comparison between an unchanged political USA layout since 1945 can only be validated towards today's RF or in a timeline comparison from 1990 till today. What Stalin or the SU did in e.g. 1954 or 1981 has no bearing on today's issues.

Where is there or has been a factual "expansion" by China onto their neighbors in the past 40 years? The same goes for Russia - Chechnya AFAIK was about combating Muslim radicals/terrorists. Georgia was about Russia supporting two breakaway Georgian provinces, that had been attacked by Georgia.
The only expansion and war Russia has conducted in the past 30 years is only Ukraine. Occupying Crimea was wrong - supporting Ukrainian breakaway provinces was maybe correct, attacking the Ukraine on Feb. 2022 was wrong. So one Russian war in comparison to a dozen conducted by NATO and the USA in the past 30 years!!

That is a very lame argument - Since then the USA would also has no right to decide. The right's of a sovereign nation and the right thing to do, are usually two different issues. When e.g. the Solomon's decides towards a cooperation with China - The USA and it's buddies immediately start to cry around and accuse China of "expansionist policy". When the Philippines acquit to the same issue - the USA and it's buddies come up with - the right's of a sove....... . The actual huge difference between the Salomon's and the Philippines are it's respective population and Geo-strategic locations. Now keep in mind that US military involvement in the Philippines exists since 1900 - China's cooperation with the far off and tiny Salomon's isn't even 2 years. It's an apples and peaches comparison propagated by the USA and it's backers.
And again whilst China has been and still is a massive economic contribution factor to South-East-Asia's wealth - the USA basically only contributes towards military spending's and lastly endangering those countries security if China would be as aggressive as they always like to state.
What has the EU or NATO/USA done to enhance the Ukrainian or Philippine economy since 1991??? who cares about how corrupt some country is - no one in the super corrupt Philippines complains about having increased their livelihood considerably in the past 30 years thanks to solely China. - the common people are however rightfully at extreme odds with their own corrupt elites, suported as always by the USA. Come on man - wake up.

They clearly stated so, via enhancing the topic towards respecting international recognized borders. Clearly China is therefore telling Russia to move out of any occupied region. As I had stated before, there are clear regulations by the UN in regards to the "sovereignty of peoples determination" meaning a plebiscite has to be conducted by the UN to determine if people in ALL regions/provinces of Ukraine want to belong to Russia or Ukraine. It's the UN that unfortunately mostly doesn't live up to it's primary task. Which is to care and protect the people not just governments interests. If the UN isn't up to that task - then why should anyone including China - respect UN resolutions???

This IMO is actually China's ultimate goal in regards to their involvement towards the Ukraine/Russia war. To clearly point out the inability and injustice upheld by the UN. A tool that has been instituted and manipulated/controlled foremost by the USA in the past 100 years. The USA has numerously disrespected UN resolutions - but are always the first to call onto the UN if it serves their purpose. That therefore China and any other major country is also doing this is understood.

Ukraine/Russia is a classic example - victim of this manipulated UN. Despite the UN needing to be aware of a future issue regarding (sovereignty of peoples determination) it simply voted to legalize a sovereign Ukraine, based on borders that had been defined by the SU, regardless of an ethnic composition or even a national identity. Jeltzin acquitted the Ukraine and now a Putin comes up and say's - hey wait a minute, I don't agree with those borders. It is the UN's primary task to avoid countries getting into a war. A peoples plebiscite would have been the only right thing to do - something the UN is responsible for - they never did it. How come?? It only refuted plebiscites and their outcome, held by Putin - due to "suspected" manipulation.

That Putin want's to expand Russia's influence and as such maybe even occupies/attacks others sovereign territory is understood - and the UN's inaction (total failure) gave him the pretext for doing just that. The NATO expansion (also unopposed by the UN) is just another heap of charcoal added onto the fire.

China's government is far too smart and vivid to involve/refer to the UN just for the sake of a single dispute aka Ukraine - whilst the whole word is on fire due to a totally manipulated UN.


In the first two weeks I was convinced that Putin had staged this attack in conjunction with a coup - government takeover in Kiev. After this coup never took place it was clear for me that Russia can't win this war - their military simply is useless in all aspects. The typical Russian attitude/method to learn, improve whilst an ongoing war, won't work in Ukraine to to a time-limit by the USA which is set latest for October 2024. And Putin IMO will make use of ABC weapons if he faces imminent defeat - in his mindset he has nothing to loose by doing that.

Just like Hitler in his last Bunker days when approached by other's in regards to surrendering - "if Germany can't win this war, then the German people proof to be the weaker race and therefore don't deserve to survive". Two day's later the lunatic shot himself.

I propose to stop this pointless discussion about warmongering and peaceful nations. It is very convenient to see only the last 40 years, when China chose to concentrate on internal economic and social reforms and avoid international issues. Also it is very convenient to pretend that today's Russian officials are completely different in their mentality from the Soviet ones of the Cold War era. It is pointless discussion.

I propose to return back to the main theme of this thread and concentrate on China's peace proposals and what they could mean.

You mentioned referendums above. Elaborate what you mean. If you propose to organise referendums in the occupied areas, then this idea won't bring any fruit. Neither Ukraine nor Russia will agree to give back controlled territories.

 

[beagle9]

Its really simple

A western company with advanced technology wants to manufacture in china and sell the goods in the west

In order to do so they have to have a 50% chinese partner

Then to get the quality western consumers expect they have to teach the chinese how to make the product

After that numerous chinese companies will learn the secrets and be able to compete

Yes I already know this, but when it comes to higher value military secrets, are they reverse engineering or are they actually getting this information from treasonous traitors back here in the U.S. ? What amount have we actually contributed to building up a modernized Chinese military caused by traitor's here in the U.S. ?

Who were the most vulnerable target's that China targeted in the U.S, otherwise as far as citizen's/government officials and their political affiliations go ??

 

[Mac-7]

Yes I already know this, but when it comes to higher value military secrets, are they reverse engineering or are they actually getting this information from treasonous traitors back here in the U.S. ? What amount have we actually contributed to building up a modernized Chinese military caused by traitor's here in the U.S. ?

Who were the most vulnerable target's that China targeted in the U.S, otherwise as far as citizen's/government officials and their political affiliations go ??

I dont know the answer to those questions

If military contractors hire bright young communists whatever the contractor does will get back to china

But lets not overlook the greedy American academics who get money from the chinese

The bastards

 

[beagle9]

I dont know the answer to those questions

If military contractors hire bright young communists whatever the contractor does will get back to china

But lets not overlook the greedy American academics who get money from the chinese

The bastards

The traitor's who contributed and/gave military secrets in various forms to be learned by the Chinese, well they need to be hunted down and locked up for treason. I believe we have knowledge of them right now, but for some reason we don't see them as being the traitor's that they are. Why is this I wonder ? Was Eric Swawell guilty of espionage or sharing secrets by having been alledgedly found out that he was going with an alledged Chinese spy ? If so, then why is he not facing a trial ???

Does the politician's have so much dirt on each other, and it dating back year's, that we have come to a deadlock on prosecuting high crime's and misdemeanors because of this deadlock ?? Did corruption and the sell out become so normalized and common place that everyone just turned a blind eye toward it, sort of like what's been going on with the long slow process of leftist normalizing or attempting to normalize terrible ridiculous bull crap in this country ???

Is this why they all saw Trump as a bull in their money making China shops who had to be stopped ??

 

[beagle9]

They are very smart but the culture in communist china does not reward innovation

Look what happened to the founder of Alibaba when he became too successful and a rival to Xi and the CCP

He is virtually under house arrest

 

[Mac-7]

Dictatorships are sometimes good at making weapons

The Soviet Union for instance

But even the Soviets had to steal from the West

And forget about consumer products

Other than Tetris to cupboard is bare

 

[beagle9]

Dictatorships are sometimes good at making weapons

The Soviet Union for instance

But even the Soviets had to steal from the West

And forget about consumer products

Other than Tetris to cupboard is bare

Especially the Soviets..... China ain't no joke, so we must get our act together quickly, and give stern warnings to the world that we are no longer going to try and police so much in areas that we don't need to be doing such a thing in, but instead we are going to get back on our mission of spreading peace through strength. We must work our way back to having first a self sustaining economy that looks outwardly for things only that we can't produce for ourselves or that the order is so tall that we might get some outside assistance in completing the order.

Never again should we allow anyone to get so cozy with us, and then take advantage of it, that it begins to make us look like complete fool's over it.

First thing is that the Democrat's either get rid of their idiot's amongst them or look to be destroyed as a political party. We can't afford that kind of weakness and corruption anymore in our government. The world is watching.

 

[Kruska]

I propose to stop this pointless discussion about warmongering and peaceful nations. It is very convenient to see only the last 40 years, when China chose to concentrate on internal economic and social reforms and avoid international issues. Also it is very convenient to pretend that today's Russian officials are completely different in their mentality from the Soviet ones of the Cold War era. It is pointless discussion.

I propose to return back to the main theme of this thread and concentrate on China's peace proposals and what they could mean.

You mentioned referendums above. Elaborate what you mean. If you propose to organise referendums in the occupied areas, then this idea won't bring any fruit. Neither Ukraine nor Russia will agree to give back controlled territories.

What is "convenient" about the fact that the new China policy that is beheld by it's standing committee since 1981 - has refrained from making war for the past 40+ years?
You obviously don't like it, simply because those democratic NATO/USA have never stopped making war onto others in the past 40 years. But okay no-problem, we can stop discussing about it.

As for UN conducted referendums; It is the primary basic right of human beings, and it's called "the peoples right to self-determination". The UN is completely build around this one matter, exactly for that purpose.

Chapter 1, Article 1, states that purpose of the UN Charter is: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace”

If both Ukraine and Russia do not respect or allow for a "peoples referendum" then both are in disrespect/breach towards the UN Chapter1, Article1. Right now the West claims that Russia is in breach of the UN charter, due to having attacked a sovereign country - Ukraine. Keep in mind there is no UN resolution in regards to implementing respective UN actions upon condemning the Russian attack. The UN is simply saying - hey we don't approve of it, please pull out your military forces.

It's like a robbed person telling the criminal: Hey my family and me don't approve of it, please give me back my wallet.
The robbed person: If not I will call the police to take action.
Criminal: - go ahead, I got a veto right towards police actions.

This is exactly the UN controlled world-society we live in.

The UN charter also has a clear definition towards a nations right; of self defense - or valid actions to protect it's national security.
The Russian government openly forwarded that it feels threatened in it's national security due to
a. Ukraine having prepared for a war
b. NATO expansion into Ukraine
Frankly I don't care as to who might be lying or as to telling the truth. It is the UN's job/task to clarify such an issue - BEFORE a war breaks out. And they had at minimum 7 years time to come up with something.

The UN it's self, is the most non-democratic international organization I am aware off.
E.g. the combined population of San Marino and Monaco is 70,000 people - they have the same voting power/say in the UN as e.g. India and China representing 3 billion people.
Not to mention for certain nuclear powers to be granted a veto right. As such being legally entitled to simply ignore or prevent a world majority decision.
I am not aware of any democratic or autocratic nation - who's national election procedure would allow for e.g. Alaska to send the same amount of representatives to Congress as e.g California.

Then all these contradictions amongst the UN's sub-organizations;
If the USA (which they love to do) imposes non UN endorsed sanction onto a country - they are automatically in breach with the WTO regulations.
And so are all the others who acquit towards such sanctions - see presently EU - Russia.
At the same time, exactly the same nations who are in breach with WTO regulations will refer to WTO treaties when it comes to disputes with e.g. China or others.

The entire UN organization since 1945 is an absolute miss-construct, consecutively, systematically enhanced as a tool, kept alive, and exploited foremost by the USA.

IMO China is now taking this ridiculous Ukraine issue as a perfect opportunity - to either reconstruct the UN or to present sooner or later another UN like alternative organization.
Thus simply taking away the main toy of the USA and it's supporters to play world politics, instead of performing world politics within a legal framework based on justifiable decisions and laws within an world organization that also possesses the realistic means to peruse breaches accordingly.

BTW; the top ten manpower contributors towards UN lead Peace missions are all third world and developing countries - these ten countries accounting for almost 50% of the entire UN peacekeeping force - including e.g China, contributing 2249 personal in 2021
And the ever loud-mouthing USA? 32!!
Well off course they and NATO had tens of thousands fighting a war in Afghanistan. (USFOR-A) and the UN invented a new name for NATO's attack mission - ISAF.

The only Western country to contribute manpower towards UN lead Peacekeeping missions in the top 30 is Italy - 1188 personal
It's obvious that aside from contributing money (in order to have a say) - all these democratic and Western countries are unwilling to sacrifice own human lives towards UN Peacekeeping-missions.
But for initiating/conducting a murderous war for 20 years in Afghanistan - against a sovereign nation in 2001, no problem.

Off course - how dare this Putin do the same thing towards Ukraine, or these evil Chinese communists constructing artificial islands and supposedly stealing IP rights.

To make you understand my position in regards to the USA very clear; I have absolutely no problem with a USA doing everything it can do to protect it's people and economic interests, just as China has exactly the same rights and obligation towards it's people. What I hate are these double standards - mostly harbored by democrats and libs/greens. So get the F... out off other peoples neighborhood and get your own things in order.

 

[ESay]

What is "convenient" about the fact that the new China policy that is beheld by it's standing committee since 1981 - has refrained from making war for the past 40+ years?
You obviously don't like it, simply because those democratic NATO/USA have never stopped making war onto others in the past 40 years. But okay no-problem, we can stop discussing about it.

As for UN conducted referendums; It is the primary basic right of human beings, and it's called "the peoples right to self-determination". The UN is completely build around this one matter, exactly for that purpose.

Chapter 1, Article 1, states that purpose of the UN Charter is: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace”

If both Ukraine and Russia do not respect or allow for a "peoples referendum" then both are in disrespect/breach towards the UN Chapter1, Article1. Right now the West claims that Russia is in breach of the UN charter, due to having attacked a sovereign country - Ukraine. Keep in mind there is no UN resolution in regards to implementing respective UN actions upon condemning the Russian attack. The UN is simply saying - hey we don't approve of it, please pull out your military forces.

It's like a robbed person telling the criminal: Hey my family and me don't approve of it, please give me back my wallet.
The robbed person: If not I will call the police to take action.
Criminal: - go ahead, I got a veto right towards police actions.

This is exactly the UN controlled world-society we live in.

The UN charter also has a clear definition towards a nations right; of self defense - or valid actions to protect it's national security.
The Russian government openly forwarded that it feels threatened in it's national security due to
a. Ukraine having prepared for a war
b. NATO expansion into Ukraine
Frankly I don't care as to who might be lying or as to telling the truth. It is the UN's job/task to clarify such an issue - BEFORE a war breaks out. And they had at minimum 7 years time to come up with something.

The UN it's self, is the most non-democratic international organization I am aware off.
E.g. the combined population of San Marino and Monaco is 70,000 people - they have the same voting power/say in the UN as e.g. India and China representing 3 billion people.
Not to mention for certain nuclear powers to be granted a veto right. As such being legally entitled to simply ignore or prevent a world majority decision.
I am not aware of any democratic or autocratic nation - who's national election procedure would allow for e.g. Alaska to send the same amount of representatives to Congress as e.g California.

Then all these contradictions amongst the UN's sub-organizations;
If the USA (which they love to do) imposes non UN endorsed sanction onto a country - they are automatically in breach with the WTO regulations.
And so are all the others who acquit towards such sanctions - see presently EU - Russia.
At the same time, exactly the same nations who are in breach with WTO regulations will refer to WTO treaties when it comes to disputes with e.g. China or others.

The entire UN organization since 1945 is an absolute miss-construct, consecutively, systematically enhanced as a tool, kept alive, and exploited foremost by the USA.

IMO China is now taking this ridiculous Ukraine issue as a perfect opportunity - to either reconstruct the UN or to present sooner or later another UN like alternative organization.
Thus simply taking away the main toy of the USA and it's supporters to play world politics, instead of performing world politics within a legal framework based on justifiable decisions and laws within an world organization that also possesses the realistic means to peruse breaches accordingly.

BTW; the top ten manpower contributors towards UN lead Peace missions are all third world and developing countries - these ten countries accounting for almost 50% of the entire UN peacekeeping force - including e.g China, contributing 2249 personal in 2021
And the ever loud-mouthing USA? 32!!
Well off course they and NATO had tens of thousands fighting a war in Afghanistan. (USFOR-A) and the UN invented a new name for NATO's attack mission - ISAF.

The only Western country to contribute manpower towards UN lead Peacekeeping missions in the top 30 is Italy - 1188 personal
It's obvious that aside from contributing money (in order to have a say) - all these democratic and Western countries are unwilling to sacrifice own human lives towards UN Peacekeeping-missions.
But for initiating/conducting a murderous war for 20 years in Afghanistan - against a sovereign nation in 2001, no problem.

Off course - how dare this Putin do the same thing towards Ukraine, or these evil Chinese communists constructing artificial islands and supposedly stealing IP rights.

To make you understand my position in regards to the USA very clear; I have absolutely no problem with a USA doing everything it can do to protect it's people and economic interests, just as China has exactly the same rights and obligation towards it's people. What I hate are these double standards - mostly harbored by democrats and libs/greens. So get the F... out off other peoples neighborhood and get your own things in order.

Who cares about the UN now? It is highly overrated, bureaucratic and ineffective structure. It barely had any effectiveness in the first decades of its existence and has nothing now.

The only reasons it exists now are its symbolism for post-WWII world order and big money bureaucrats get out of it. Abolishing it is the best way of its reform.

When I hear about double standards I can't help but grin. Double standards is the way diplomacy as a whole works. Always been, always will.

About referendums. If you are so in favour of them and that is China's goals, then let it show a lead in this by its own example. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xinjiang. Would be interesting to see.

Every country has a right to pursue its security policy. East European countries don't believe in this stuff about peaceful Russia that has nothing to do with its violent past. And they have a right to join a bloc that serves their security interests. Of course, Russia has a right to counteract.

If some East Asian countries don't buy stories about China's peacefulness, they have a right to seek for military blocs for their protection. And of course, China has a right to counteract. It is as simple as that.