Christian? Yes or No?

[rdean]

These right wingers have started a new religion they call Christianity, but it's something new. It doesn't follow the traditional morals and values of Middle Eastern and European Christianity. This religion worships wealth and corporations. They place a fetus above women. They see the wealthy as needing support and the poor as needing to be stepped on. It's almost completly white and seems to be central to the Republican Party. In this religion, lying is no longer a sin, but a sound political strategy. Just the fact that members of thise religion feel "entitled" suggests some Fascist content.

eastern and European Christianity??

What the fuck are you yammering about now?? Christianity is all white?? you are truly a bigoted idiot.

Poor pathetic Chickenwing. Doesn't know how to read.

Traditional Christianity doesn't believe in "Feed the poor and they will breed" and "let him die". They don't love weapons more than children. They believe in people OVER corporations, not "corporations are people".

Try to keep up.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That does bring up that incredibly vile attitude of some - that holier than thou, "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin".

And, you're right - just being "Christian" doesn't mean they follow the teachings of Jesus.

Too bad they don't have the integrity and courage as Jason Collins who wears jersey 98 in honor of Mathew Shepherd.

Yes, bad, bad Jesus for loving the sinner. How terribly kind and holy of Him.
You are attacking a sportscaster for having the integrity and courage to forgo politically correct bullshit and stand up for his beliefs.

You are the sportscaster, different agenda. End free speech. Promote the new normal. Demonize anyone who doesn't share your opinion.

So you believe in hate? That's a "good thing"? See what I mean about a "new" religion.

Calling a spade a spade isn't hating anyone. It is calling a spade a spade.
Ball player comes out.
Newscaster holds to a different doctrine.
It wasn't the ball player or the newscaster that I object to.
I object to the demonizing of one of them, for not falling all over the other.
No hate, no "new" corporate religion and:

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

We don't. We just continue loving Jesus and setting up crisis centers, food banks, clothes closets, rehab centers, soup kitchens, boys towns, and you know, St. Jude, Christian Children's Funds, and the like.........

 

[rdean]

Yes, bad, bad Jesus for loving the sinner. How terribly kind and holy of Him.
You are attacking a sportscaster for having the integrity and courage to forgo politically correct bullshit and stand up for his beliefs.

You are the sportscaster, different agenda. End free speech. Promote the new normal. Demonize anyone who doesn't share your opinion.

So you believe in hate? That's a "good thing"? See what I mean about a "new" religion.

Calling a spade a spade isn't hating anyone. It is calling a spade a spade.
Ball player comes out.
Newscaster holds to a different doctrine.
It wasn't the ball player or the newscaster that I object to.
I object to the demonizing of one of them, for not falling all over the other.
No hate, no "new" corporate religion and:

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

We don't. We just continue loving Jesus and setting up crisis centers, food banks, clothes closets, rehab centers, soup kitchens, boys towns, and you know, St. Jude, Christian Children's Funds, and the like.........

With how much of that "Christian Charity" money actually coming from the Government?

None?

10%?

50%?

75%?

I already know the answer. I posted it before with links from such places as the Catholic Charities. Perhaps you might do a little investigation? Or not. I suspect not. Right wingers don't like having their world rocked, not even a little.

 

[The Irish Ram]

And then there are those of us who like it a lot. So, if you are done asking me a question and then answering it for me, let's dance.

How America Gives

August 19, 2012
Faith and Giving

Religion plays a major role in how much money Americans give to charity. The parts of the country that tend to be more religious are also more generous.

Donors in Southern states, for instance, give roughly 5.2 percent of their discretionary income to charity—both to religious and to secular groups—compared with donors in the Northeast, who give 4.0 percent.

A map showing that donors in Southern states give 5.2% of their discretionary income to charity, compared to 4.5% in the West, 4.3% in the Midwest, and 4.0% in the Northeast

But the generosity ranking changes when religion is taken out of the picture. People in the Northeast give the most, providing 1.4 percent of their discretionary income to secular charities, compared with those in the South, who give 0.9 percent.

A map showing that donors in Northeast give 1.4% of their discretionary income to secular charities, compared to 1.1% in the West, 0.9% in the Midwest, and 0.9% in the South

Faith and Giving - How America Gives - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas

You're nuts and stingy.

 

[The Irish Ram]

From the desk of:
The Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (sccbs) was undertaken in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research.

From this:

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior.
For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.

To this:

Note that neither political ideology nor income is responsible for much of the charitable differences between secular and religious people. For example, religious liberals are 19 points more likely than secular liberals to give to charity, while religious conservatives are 28 points more likely than secular conservatives to do so. In other words, religious conservatives (who give and volunteer at rates of 91 percent and 67 percent) appear to differ from secular liberals (who give and volunteer at rates of 72 percent and 52 percent) more due to religion than to politics. Similarly, giving differences do not disappear when income is neutralized.

Holy cow. How much better it is for the poor and the weak, that we be lead by the Spirit of God to give, than to rely on human altruism.
Christ gave us all He had, and then heaped a blessing on those that give also:

Acts 20:35 In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

Side note to Christians.
"by this kind of hard work" < THAT is what you are judged according to, NOT SIN, and is the ONLY judgement you'll be a part of. Christ disposed of your sins and your Father doesn't remember them.
But hard work for Christ's sake determines the amount of overflowing blessings and rewards you are entitled to.

 

[FA_Q2]

So...if someone is gay, they can't be a christian?

No, but it does not mandate that one must be tolerant of ones sexual or personal lifestyle choices.

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

Personally, you can be as intolerant as you wish. What you cannot do is enforce that belief through government. IOW, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with what the sportscaster stated. It is simple – HE DISAGREES WITH THAT LIFESTYLE. Where is the intolerance there, btw? IT is not. It is a personal belief that he holds like the thousands of beliefs that everyone holds and the opinions in which we judge other on.

Getting upset with the sportscaster because he hold that view IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS HIS STATEMENTS. It is the same thing. You are judging an individual for the beliefs that he holds. It is rather inane.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Did the sportscaster say he hated Collins because he was gay, or did he say that Collins' lifestyle conflicted with Christian doctrine?

What makes you think that the definition of a "good Christian" is one that sets aside their own beliefs, in order to accept and adopt the beliefs of everyone else?

That does bring up that incredibly vile attitude of some - that holier than thou, "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin".

And, you're right - just being "Christian" doesn't mean they follow the teachings of Jesus.

Too bad they don't have the integrity and courage as Jason Collins who wears jersey 98 in honor of Mathew Shepherd.[/QUOTE

The only person I see acting as "holier than thou" is people such as yourself - people who try to impose their atheism on everyone else and cannot seem to stop themselves from targeting Christians! You've got a problem, Luddley. Seek help. - Jeri

 

[Oldguy]

ESPN Sportscaster Immediately Trashes First Out NBA Player: Jason Collins Is Not 'A Christian' | ThinkProgress

BROUSSARD: Personally, I don’t believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly, like premarital sex between heterosexuals. If you’re openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits. It says that, you know, that’s a sin. If you’re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, whatever it maybe, I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don’t think the bible would characterize them as a Christian.

OTOH, here's a "good christian" having his say -

Pat Robertson Praises ESPN Analyst For Attack On Jason Collins, First Openly Gay Active NBA Player | Video | Media Matters for America

I can't stay cuz I hafta go throw up.

ALL Christian's live in open rebellion because we ALL still sin. Your sin might be the same as mine, but we all do it and sin IS rebellion.

Christianity isn't about behavior; it's about trusting in Jesus Christ. If we define Christianity by behavior, there are no Christian's at all.

 

[AmyNation]

ESPN Sportscaster Immediately Trashes First Out NBA Player: Jason Collins Is Not 'A Christian' | ThinkProgress

BROUSSARD: Personally, I don’t believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly, like premarital sex between heterosexuals. If you’re openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits. It says that, you know, that’s a sin. If you’re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, whatever it maybe, I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don’t think the bible would characterize them as a Christian.

OTOH, here's a "good christian" having his say -

Pat Robertson Praises ESPN Analyst For Attack On Jason Collins, First Openly Gay Active NBA Player | Video | Media Matters for America

I can't stay cuz I hafta go throw up.

ALL Christian's live in open rebellion because we ALL still sin. Your sin might be the same as mine, but we all do it and sin IS rebellion.

Christianity isn't about behavior; it's about trusting in Jesus Christ. If we define Christianity by behavior, there are no Christian's at all.

Very true.

I believe the concept of him "not being a Christian", is, you can't embrace a sin and be a Christian. You should always be sorry and try to do better in the future.

However, if the Christian faith started kicking out people who choose sin, there wouldn't be too many people left. Some forget that the homosexual act may be considered a sin, but premarital sex and masturbation is also considered a sin.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Christians do no condone homosexuality. Get over it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, but it does not mandate that one must be tolerant of ones sexual or personal lifestyle choices.

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

Personally, you can be as intolerant as you wish. What you cannot do is enforce that belief through government. IOW, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with what the sportscaster stated. It is simple – HE DISAGREES WITH THAT LIFESTYLE. Where is the intolerance there, btw? IT is not. It is a personal belief that he holds like the thousands of beliefs that everyone holds and the opinions in which we judge other on.

Getting upset with the sportscaster because he hold that view IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS HIS STATEMENTS. It is the same thing. You are judging an individual for the beliefs that he holds. It is rather inane.

You are mistaken about being upset. This was simply a matter of highlighting the hypocrisy of intolerant bigots complaining when normal people are exposing that bigotry for what it really is.

 

[Oldguy]

No, but it does not mandate that one must be tolerant of ones sexual or personal lifestyle choices.

No? Can one be a teller of little white lies and be a Christian? Can one be an adulterer and still be a Christian? How about a heavy drinker or a dishonest businessman? What about a braggart or a spreader of falsehoods?

Of course one can be those things and still be a Christian! They may not be a GOOD Christian, but continuing sin is a fact of every day life for any Christian. No matter what the sin is, forgiveness is still available through the shed blood of Jesus Christ EVEN IF THAT BELIEVER DOES IT AGAIN. And, again and again and again. Any sin, even homosexuality, is just another stumble off the preferred path and can be forgiven if one truly repents and asks forgiveness. There are no set number of times one can fail and then NOT get God's forgiveness. And, I would note that the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as "repent" means to change ones MIND, to be sorry. It does NOT mean a change in behavior. Such a chance should flow FROM repentance, but we all know it doesn't always, don't we? If Christ didn't die to pay for all our sins, what was He doing up there on that cross?

The critical issue isn't what someone does, but what's in his heart and nobody but Christ himself knows that. Not you, not I, not that sportscaster. That's why we are told not to judge others, not to render an opinion of the state of their relationship with God by their external actions.

There is but one sure evidence of true Salvation and that's the presence of the Holy Spirit in one's life. And, according to Paul in Galatians 5, here are the evidences of the presence of that Spirit, what he called "fruit of the Spirit:"


Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering (patience)
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

How many of those are behaviors? A person's behavior will REFLECT those values, but they are NOT behaviors themselves.

See the difference?

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, but it does not mandate that one must be tolerant of ones sexual or personal lifestyle choices.

No? Can one be a teller of little white lies and be a Christian? Can one be an adulterer and still be a Christian? How about a heavy drinker or a dishonest businessman? What about a braggart or a spreader of falsehoods?

Of course one can be those things and still be a Christian! They may not be a GOOD Christian, but continuing sin is a fact of every day life for any Christian. No matter what the sin is, forgiveness is still available through the shed blood of Jesus Christ EVEN IF THAT BELIEVER DOES IT AGAIN. And, again and again and again. Any sin, even homosexuality, is just another stumble off the preferred path and can be forgiven if one truly repents and asks forgiveness. There are no set number of times one can fail and then NOT get God's forgiveness. And, I would note that the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as "repent" means to change ones MIND, to be sorry. It does NOT mean a change in behavior. Such a chance should flow FROM repentance, but we all know it doesn't always, don't we? If Christ didn't die to pay for all our sins, what was He doing up there on that cross?

The critical issue isn't what someone does, but what's in his heart and nobody but Christ himself knows that. Not you, not I, not that sportscaster. That's why we are told not to judge others, not to render an opinion of the state of their relationship with God by their external actions.

There is but one sure evidence of true Salvation and that's the presence of the Holy Spirit in one's life. And, according to Paul in Galatians 5, here are the evidences of the presence of that Spirit, what he called "fruit of the Spirit:"


Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering (patience)
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

How many of those are behaviors? A person's behavior will REFLECT those values, but they are NOT behaviors themselves.

See the difference?

Self-control, kindness,faithfulness, gentleness and patience are all behaviors. So are lying, stealing, intolerance, meanness, impatience, infidelity and cruelty. And yes, behavior does reflect the person inside. Not every Christian is good and not every Muslim is bad. In every group there will be same who reflect all of these behaviors to a greater or lesser extent. Generalizing based upon the misbehavior of a few is wrong.

 

[Oldguy]

No, but it does not mandate that one must be tolerant of ones sexual or personal lifestyle choices.

No? Can one be a teller of little white lies and be a Christian? Can one be an adulterer and still be a Christian? How about a heavy drinker or a dishonest businessman? What about a braggart or a spreader of falsehoods?

Of course one can be those things and still be a Christian! They may not be a GOOD Christian, but continuing sin is a fact of every day life for any Christian. No matter what the sin is, forgiveness is still available through the shed blood of Jesus Christ EVEN IF THAT BELIEVER DOES IT AGAIN. And, again and again and again. Any sin, even homosexuality, is just another stumble off the preferred path and can be forgiven if one truly repents and asks forgiveness. There are no set number of times one can fail and then NOT get God's forgiveness. And, I would note that the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as "repent" means to change ones MIND, to be sorry. It does NOT mean a change in behavior. Such a chance should flow FROM repentance, but we all know it doesn't always, don't we? If Christ didn't die to pay for all our sins, what was He doing up there on that cross?

The critical issue isn't what someone does, but what's in his heart and nobody but Christ himself knows that. Not you, not I, not that sportscaster. That's why we are told not to judge others, not to render an opinion of the state of their relationship with God by their external actions.

There is but one sure evidence of true Salvation and that's the presence of the Holy Spirit in one's life. And, according to Paul in Galatians 5, here are the evidences of the presence of that Spirit, what he called "fruit of the Spirit:"


Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering (patience)
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

How many of those are behaviors? A person's behavior will REFLECT those values, but they are NOT behaviors themselves.

See the difference?

Self-control, kindness,faithfulness, gentleness and patience are all behaviors. So are lying, stealing, intolerance, meanness, impatience, infidelity and cruelty. And yes, behavior does reflect the person inside. Not every Christian is good and not every Muslim is bad. In every group there will be same who reflect all of these behaviors to a greater or lesser extent. Generalizing based upon the misbehavior of a few is wrong.

Does that mean generalizing on the misbehavior of an individual is right?

 

[FA_Q2]

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

Personally, you can be as intolerant as you wish. What you cannot do is enforce that belief through government. IOW, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with what the sportscaster stated. It is simple – HE DISAGREES WITH THAT LIFESTYLE. Where is the intolerance there, btw? IT is not. It is a personal belief that he holds like the thousands of beliefs that everyone holds and the opinions in which we judge other on.

Getting upset with the sportscaster because he hold that view IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS HIS STATEMENTS. It is the same thing. You are judging an individual for the beliefs that he holds. It is rather inane.

You are mistaken about being upset. This was simply a matter of highlighting the hypocrisy of intolerant bigots complaining when normal people are exposing that bigotry for what it really is.

But there is nothing bigoted in what he stated. Again, his PERSONAL belief is that homosexuality is a sin. Is that bigoted? It is a personal belief and until he tries to translate that to the manner in which he treats that individual, I don’t care.

 

[turzovka]

ESPN Sportscaster Immediately Trashes First Out NBA Player: Jason Collins Is Not 'A Christian' | ThinkProgress

BROUSSARD: Personally, I don&#8217;t believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly, like premarital sex between heterosexuals. If you&#8217;re openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits. It says that, you know, that&#8217;s a sin. If you&#8217;re openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, whatever it maybe, I believe that&#8217;s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don&#8217;t think the bible would characterize them as a Christian.

OTOH, here's a "good christian" having his say -

Pat Robertson Praises ESPN Analyst For Attack On Jason Collins, First Openly Gay Active NBA Player | Video | Media Matters for America

I can't stay cuz I hafta go throw up.

If Jason Collins is a true Christian, then the public accusations will not bother him in the least. He will rejoice. See the Sermon on the Mount. (paraphrase) "Rejoice when they persecute you because of my name."

If Jason is not a true Christian, then the admonishment may do him far more eternal good then all the praises he will no likely receive. IMO. Granted, the espn announcer may have gone too far in a public excoriation of an individual, but God can take bad and bring a greater good out of it --- for all parties involved.

So, if I were you, I would not get too bold and indicate to us what is throw-up worthy, or in other words, what is the most egregious troubles with our world. However, if you are a strong believer in Jesus, maybe you have a different perspective on this?

 

[turzovka]

So you believe in hate? That's a "good thing"? See what I mean about a "new" religion.

Calling a spade a spade isn't hating anyone. It is calling a spade a spade.
Ball player comes out.
Newscaster holds to a different doctrine.
It wasn't the ball player or the newscaster that I object to.
I object to the demonizing of one of them, for not falling all over the other.
No hate, no "new" corporate religion and:

So if fundamentalist Christians are allowed to be intolerant of other people's "personal lifestyle choices" why do they whine so much when normal people are intolerant of fundamentalist Christian's bigotry?

We don't. We just continue loving Jesus and setting up crisis centers, food banks, clothes closets, rehab centers, soup kitchens, boys towns, and you know, St. Jude, Christian Children's Funds, and the like.........

With how much of that "Christian Charity" money actually coming from the Government?

None?

10%?

50%?

75%?

I already know the answer. I posted it before with links from such places as the Catholic Charities. Perhaps you might do a little investigation? Or not. I suspect not. Right wingers don't like having their world rocked, not even a little.

Given your delusional ideas about democrat altruism and republican demonism, it doesn&#8217;t surprise me you only concern yourself with whatever negative you can find about Christianity in order to try to convince the jury how bad it is for society. (Honesty does not come into play here, making your quest so much easier.)

I see you also "mourn the death of common sense" you say? I would too, if I were a victim like you.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No? Can one be a teller of little white lies and be a Christian? Can one be an adulterer and still be a Christian? How about a heavy drinker or a dishonest businessman? What about a braggart or a spreader of falsehoods?

Of course one can be those things and still be a Christian! They may not be a GOOD Christian, but continuing sin is a fact of every day life for any Christian. No matter what the sin is, forgiveness is still available through the shed blood of Jesus Christ EVEN IF THAT BELIEVER DOES IT AGAIN. And, again and again and again. Any sin, even homosexuality, is just another stumble off the preferred path and can be forgiven if one truly repents and asks forgiveness. There are no set number of times one can fail and then NOT get God's forgiveness. And, I would note that the Greek and Hebrew words translated into English as "repent" means to change ones MIND, to be sorry. It does NOT mean a change in behavior. Such a chance should flow FROM repentance, but we all know it doesn't always, don't we? If Christ didn't die to pay for all our sins, what was He doing up there on that cross?

The critical issue isn't what someone does, but what's in his heart and nobody but Christ himself knows that. Not you, not I, not that sportscaster. That's why we are told not to judge others, not to render an opinion of the state of their relationship with God by their external actions.

There is but one sure evidence of true Salvation and that's the presence of the Holy Spirit in one's life. And, according to Paul in Galatians 5, here are the evidences of the presence of that Spirit, what he called "fruit of the Spirit:"


Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering (patience)
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Self-control

How many of those are behaviors? A person's behavior will REFLECT those values, but they are NOT behaviors themselves.

See the difference?

Self-control, kindness,faithfulness, gentleness and patience are all behaviors. So are lying, stealing, intolerance, meanness, impatience, infidelity and cruelty. And yes, behavior does reflect the person inside. Not every Christian is good and not every Muslim is bad. In every group there will be same who reflect all of these behaviors to a greater or lesser extent. Generalizing based upon the misbehavior of a few is wrong.

Does that mean generalizing on the misbehavior of an individual is right?

Unsure of which definition of generalizing you are using in this instance. Could you please be a little more specific as to what you mean? That would be greatly appreciated and help to keep this discussion from going off track. Thank you.

 

[Sunshine]

Collins,Tebow And The Media - Taking a Stantis

 

[Avatar4321]

If I claim to be a muslim and preach faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through His death and resurrection and someone says im not Muslim, is that an attack? Or just a fact.

Words have meaning. If I say Obama isn't Asian, is it an attack or just a fact?

Why exactly do you feel insecure when Christians have the audacity to suggest that Christians should live their faith? How is anyone attacked by pointing out that this man's lifestyle is incompatible with the Christian faith?

Was there something false about what was said? if so what? Did he accuse him of something?

Im against premarital sex. Am I attacking someone when I say that people who engage in premarital sex are living contrary to Christian teachings? Do I suddenly hate everyone who engages in premarital sex?

The irony of all this is you're using it to attack Christians. You don't have a problem with being intolerant or attacking people. If you did, you never would have started this thread.