Church denies funeral to gay man

[Steven_R]

Reading many of these posts, I have a mental image of Jesus standing at the entrance of the temple, saying, "All are welcome at my father's house, .....except you, and you, and you, and you...."

Judge not, lest ye be judged...except that guy. He's a fag. And she's a Roman whore. And that guy over there is an insufferable ****. And Bob once ate shrimp and Jane has a poly-cotton blend sweater. They ain't getting in.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Reading many of these posts, I have a mental image of Jesus standing at the entrance of the temple, saying, "All are welcome at my father's house, .....except you, and you, and you, and you...."

Heresies like evangelicalism, fundamentalism, etc., are always idolatrous in nature.

 

[Tresha91203]

I didn't know that dead bodies could be gay, that's a new one for me.

Good point.
I've always heard that the funeral is not for the dead, it's for the living to mourn the dead.

Of course, had the deceased been a raging pedophile, there would have been no dispute over HIS funeral.

It couldn't have been the deceased's church, and the mother would surely know what is permissible in her church, especially if members of the congregation complained so much.

I don't get it.

ETA: I see now it was not their church. Knowing that many/most churches of that denomination or similar denomination would not allow that service in their church, why wouldn't the family have informed the church and asked. It is really really odd ... like some kind of ninja burial attempt.

 

[Mertex]

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

Neither God nor Jesus gives you permission to condemn others. Jesus himself, when he was brought a woman whom the Pharisees said was living in sin didn't condemn her.
You are acting like the Pharisees in that story, who wanted her to be stoned to death. Undoubtedly you are without sin.

John 8
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

See? This is one of the problems with religion. Others will just come back at you with other verses that support their views because the "books" and "scriptures" are hypocritical and sometimes go against one another. This is how you can tell that they were written by men and have absolutely nothing to do with God, just God as man would like to believe him to be.

They only seem to go against one another when they are misunderstood. The scripture he quoted was Paul talking about a brother who has been confronted with his sinful ways and still does not change. There is a method by which Christians when they know a brother/sister are sinning, are to confront them. The method is provided in the Bible and is to be followed after much prayer over the person. But, this dude, doesn't know posters personally or anything about their life, so to assume that they belong to the devil and claim that they do, is rather sanctimonious and prideful, one of the things that God cannot stand.

 

[House]

TAMPA, FL (WFLA) - Julie Atwood was standing at her son's casket when the phone rang. The church where her son's funeral was scheduled to be held the next day decided to abruptly cancel the service, after the pastor learned the deceased was gay and his obituary listed a surviving "husband."

Atwood said she was told it would be "blasphemous" to hold the services at the church because her son, Julion Evans, 42, was gay.

He says the obituary named him as "husband," and that their marriage was no secret.

But when the obituary published in the local newspaper, everything changed.

T.W. Jenkins, pastor at New Hope says was not aware of that Evans had a husband or was gay until members of his congregation saw the obit and called to complain. They did not think it was right to have the funeral at their church.

Jenkins said his church preaches against gay marriage.

"Based on our preaching of the scripture, we would have been in error to allow the service in our church," Jenkins said. "I'm not trying to condemn anyone's lifestyle, but at the same time, I am a man of God, and I have to stand up for my principles."

Church denies funeral to gay man - WRCBtv.com | Chattanooga News, Weather & Sports

This preacher should have been reminded:

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew7:9-12

That preacher should be ashamed. He bowed to the will of Satan and became a vehicle of hatred.

 

[Katzndogz]

Questioning another's faith is not very Christian. The Pharisees were very good at pointing other's sins not realizing their own sins. Accusing someone who claims to be a Christian to be a follower of Satan puts you in a very precarious position. Only Jesus knows such things and Jesus you are not.

One more thing, Jesus gives us the ability to know such things. We have the Holy Bible. If it is not of the Bible, it is not Christian, and taking a little bit of the Bible and ignoring the rest of it, is also not Christian.

Am I in a precarious position? No, because I know that I am a sinner, saved only by Grace, and the sacrifice of the Lamb.

Neither God nor Jesus gives you permission to condemn others. Jesus himself, when he was brought a woman whom the Pharisees said was living in sin didn't condemn her.
You are acting like the Pharisees in that story, who wanted her to be stoned to death. Undoubtedly you are without sin.

John 8
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

Did Jesus say "Go now and leave your life of sin."? Then the appropriate message to the gay husband and gay attendees is to tell them to leave their lives of sin too. A person does not become less sinful by being more sinful. Evil does not become less evil if you become evil yourself.

 

[House]

Christ dined with whores & tax collectors.

The preacher could have spared a little time in honor of Christ's fellowship with "the wicked".

What could possibly be more Christlike than to treat sinners with respect and acceptance?

Catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and all that.

 

[ninja007]

ONE sin, any sin keeps you from Heaven. That is why Jesus came. You could never save yourself. God needed a perfect sacrifice and He got it.

 

[Andylusion]

"I still have no problem calling you a false prophet," Androw, for you mistake your relationship to scripture as if you had one with Jesus.

I now have you and the others by name above in our prayer circle, asking for the Lord's love and witness in your live.

That's fine. You can call me anything you want. Still don't care.

I know you don't now, for that is the heretic's path, but you will. Have a great day.

Still don't care. You can keep going all you want, I'll just keep telling you your opinion doesn't matter to me all I want. Continue.

 

[Andylusion]

Well, in reality, I'm not the one saying anyone is doing wrong. You and your church are the ones doing that.

So you are not saying that me and my church are not wrong. Not sure what the point of all those posts were then, but ok. I take you at your word.

I don't think you and your church are following what God or Jesus would really want. I think a lot of you have been brainwashed by your respective religions to look down upon certain segments of the population and to think you are better than they are, which of course is NOT the case.

Darling, you are confusing me to no end. You are either saying we are wrong, or you are not.

You can't say, that you are not telling us we're wrong, and then say I don't think you are right.

I don't 'look down' on anyone. I know people who were gay, and I've had gay friends before. But none of them pretended, or proclaimed to be 'christian' while being gay.

If you are gay, and admit you don't believe in Christ, don't believe in the Bible, that works just fine for me. I don't expect non-believers to follow G-d's word to believers.

But that doesn't mean I'm looking down on anyone. I get that's your opinion of me, and that's fine. I don't care. But if you want to know the truth, the truth is, I don't.

In fact, my closest friend for years, was a Muslim from Somalia.

I didn't look down on her because she was a different faith at all. She was doing all these strange Muslim things, didn't bother me. I even brought her food for Ramadan, because she wasn't allowed to eat until sun down. Didn't bother me one bit. When her car broke down, I drove her to work, and I hate wait outside her apartment for her to finish her prayers. No problem.

Now if my sister, who professes faith as a Chirstian, were to start living as a Muslim, I would have to disassociate myself from her.

I don't expect people who are not Christians, and make no claims to be Christian, to live like Christians. But those who do.... there is a different standard.

Again, if I came over to your home, and just started violating the rules of your household... you would like kick me out. You wouldn't be looking down on me. You just have rules for people in your home, and if I violate those rules, I can't be there.

The women's shelter wasn't looking down on me. They had rules that I couldn't follow. Thus I could not be there.

If you are really honest, you know that you have rules in your life, and if people violate those rules, you have consequences that you impose. You are not looking down on them, you simply have standards of conduct for those around you, and if people violate those standards, you don't let them be around you anymore.

Doesn't mean you are being a jerk to them. It's just the standards we all have.

The church has standards to for conduct in the church. If someone comes in, who is gay, who doesn't believe in Christ, doesn't believe in Jesus, and doesn't pretend to be Christian, they are as welcome in our church as anyone.

But... if you claim to be Christian, and you read your Bible which says Homosexuality is wrong, and you refuse to repent.... that's different story. We can't allow someone to run around smearing the name of Jesus, by claiming they can sin their brains out, and yet be a Christian.

It's funny, because if you were to swap out any other thing, you would be horrified by this.

Well I just murder people... only bad people though... and I'm a Christian, and G-d forgives me, so I have no problem continuing to do it.

Well I steal stuff... not much stuff... not enough that anyone would care, but you know, just little things, and only from terrible people, and G-d forgives me, so I'll keep on doing it. I don't have to change, he loves all of us unconditionally.

Well I play jokes on old people. I call them up and convince them they won the lottery, and send them fake checks in the mail, and we have a good laugh while they start buying stuff with their Social Security checks that they can't afford. It's hilarious. But I'm a Christian, and G-d forgives sin, so I'm good.

Seriously? That's terrible. But because this specific sin in question, you don't think is wrong, then we shouldn't treat it like the other sins.

But that's not how G-d works. G-d determine what is, and what is not wrong. Not us humans. A Christian, is a person who submits himself to G-d's authority, not human authority. So I don't really have a choice in what I'm saying, or how I act, on this matter. I didn't write the book. G-d did.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Personally, I find a great deal of amusement visualizing all the Christians in heaven, suddenly forced to get along with each other for eternity, regardless of whether they are Catholic, Pentacostal, Westbro Baptist, or Episcopalian with gay ministers. I can't imagine a more unhappy group of people having to share their afterlives.

 

[ChrisL]

Personally, I find a great deal of amusement visualizing all the Christians in heaven, suddenly forced to get along with each other for eternity, regardless of whether they are Catholic, Pentacostal, Westbro Baptist, or Episcopalian with gay ministers. I can't imagine a more unhappy group of people having to share their afterlives.

Sounds like hell to me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The truth that you don't preach and teach the real Jesus, Androw, is your issue not mine as you will inevitably find out. Biblical literalism is false belief. That you believe differently doesn't change that.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The truth that you don't preach and teach the real Jesus, Androw, is your issue not mine as you will inevitably find out. Biblical literalism is false belief. That you believe differently doesn't change that.

Jake, have you ever even opened a Bible? I mean, I would love to hear what you think the real Jesus taught, and preached. Please let us know, since he only spoke to you, how are the rest of us supposed to know if you don't tell us.

 

[BillyP]

ONE sin, any sin keeps you from Heaven. That is why Jesus came. You could never save yourself. God needed a perfect sacrifice and He got it.

So in other words heaven is pretty well empty and hell is overflowing with peeps.

God needed a perfect sacrifice so he created himself one?

Man, you biblers sure are whacky.

 

[BillyP]

The truth that you don't preach and teach the real Jesus, Androw, is your issue not mine as you will inevitably find out. Biblical literalism is false belief. That you believe differently doesn't change that.

Jake, have you ever even opened a Bible? I mean, I would love to hear what you think the real Jesus taught, and preached. Please let us know, since he only spoke to you, how are the rest of us supposed to know if you don't tell us.

6 days means 6 days. pretty simple concept really. And god was tired so he took the seventh day off.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

The truth that you don't preach and teach the real Jesus, Androw, is your issue not mine as you will inevitably find out. Biblical literalism is false belief. That you believe differently doesn't change that.

Jake, have you ever even opened a Bible? I mean, I would love to hear what you think the real Jesus taught, and preached. Please let us know, since he only spoke to you, how are the rest of us supposed to know if you don't tell us.

6 days means 6 days. pretty simple concept really. And god was tired so he took the seventh day off.

Sorry Billy, I didn't know you and Jake shared a brain. but now I do.

However if Jesus preached that, then Jake is really in the wrong isn't he? Thanks Billy.

 

[BillyP]

Jake, have you ever even opened a Bible? I mean, I would love to hear what you think the real Jesus taught, and preached. Please let us know, since he only spoke to you, how are the rest of us supposed to know if you don't tell us.

6 days means 6 days. pretty simple concept really. And god was tired so he took the seventh day off.

Sorry Billy, I didn't know you and Jake shared a brain. but now I do.

However if Jesus preached that, then Jake is really in the wrong isn't he? Thanks Billy.

Nobody knows what jesus preached because nothing was written down in his lifetime.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ulysses, you can't put Jesus behind a fence. Biblical literalism is idolatry, much as the Koran is the symbol of such for Islam.

Anyone who has opened the Bible and studied, read, and prayed about it realizes that to allow others to define what it all means is to allow others, not God, to rule one's life.

 

[OZman]

6 days means 6 days. pretty simple concept really. And god was tired so he took the seventh day off.

Sorry Billy, I didn't know you and Jake shared a brain. but now I do.

However if Jesus preached that, then Jake is really in the wrong isn't he? Thanks Billy.

Nobody knows what jesus preached because nothing was written down in his lifetime.

The gnosis did not need to be written down, it was put into practise by disciples and handed down as a way of life.