Church shooter stopped by armed citizen today? Lives saved by good guy with a gun?

[2aguy]

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Better check your math.

Guns are used at in self-defense at least 80,000 times per year.
http://vpc.org/studies/justifiable19.pdf (Table 6)
Compare this to 9092 gun-related murders per year.
Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

That's about 9:1 in favor of defensive gun uses.

hold it--so you are saying it's not over a MILLION times a year??
80,000 is not even close to a million....?

No....dipshit....those are the Violence Policy Center numbers and they got that number from the National Criminal Victimization Survey.....the only survey that anti-gunners cite...because it is the only one that puts the number that low.

How do they get their number? They do not ask any questions about defensive gun use in their survey, and even then, they get 80,000 people who admit to using their legal guns for self defense....you dope.

This is the Daily Koz...remember them.....and this is what they had to say about using the National Crime Victimization Survey for gun self defense research...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

And they still got 80,000 responses for defensive gun use...........

 

[2aguy]

So......this is one outcome........the guy used a pump action shotgun, 5 shots, tube fed......apparently from the video. If this is found to be different we can discuss then....

The 5 shot, pump action shotgun is one of the type of guns anti-gunners pretend they will allow us to have if we give up all the other guns.....

Russian Polytechnic shooter....used a 5 shot, tube fed, pump action shotgun.....

20 killed, 70 injured.

The Texas Church shooter used a 5 shot, tube fed, pump action shotgun.....

2 killed.

The difference?

The people in that church had their own guns to stop him.

Kerch Polytechnic College massacre - Wikipedia

The Kerch Polytechnic College massacre was a school shooting and bomb attack that occurred in Kerch, Crimea, on 17 October 2018.[2] 18-year-old student Vladislav Roslyakov shot and killed twenty people and wounded 70 others before committing suicide.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I think that if the shooter had walked in with a semi automatic handgun or an AR-15, the death toll would have been higher.

 

[ding]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

I love math. Let’s do some.

The last time I looked at the FBI’s crime and statistics data the violent gun death rate was around 2. Lets round that up to 3 for the sake of argument, Ok.

This means that 99,997 people out of 100,000 people did not kill someone with a gun.

So you think it is reasonable to punish 99,997 people because of the bad acts of 3 people?

With logic like that I wouldn’t be surprised if you wanted to ban free speech because 3 people yelled fire in a crowded movie theater.

What is your point? I'm punishing who?

Do you believe that firearms will be used in a defensive manner 4000 times in American today?

I own firearms, by the way. You're off base.

Maybe I am. Maybe I’m not. Let’s find out.

What would you like to be done with firearms?

You've got time on your hands. Let me try to be brief.

I'd like firearms to be more difficult for whack jobs to get hold of. I believe fewer firearms means fewer firearms deaths and injuries. I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment gave individuals the absolute right to keep arms. Heller was bullshit.

We have an opportunity to improve our firearms laws. I'd like to see movement in that direction.

Now. Will there be 4000 defensive uses of firearms in America today? That's a yes or no.

Maybe. I have no idea.

What laws do you want to enact and why?

 

[2aguy]

You know, I think that if the shooter had walked in with a semi automatic handgun or an AR-15, the death toll would have been higher.

Not likely.......he was engaged 6 seconds in and dropped with that one shot......had the shotgun guy sprayed the crowd he would have killed more, but he focused on those two......so had he had a handgun or an AR-15 the outcome would have been the same.

 

[2aguy]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

I love math. Let’s do some.

The last time I looked at the FBI’s crime and statistics data the violent gun death rate was around 2. Lets round that up to 3 for the sake of argument, Ok.

This means that 99,997 people out of 100,000 people did not kill someone with a gun.

So you think it is reasonable to punish 99,997 people because of the bad acts of 3 people?

With logic like that I wouldn’t be surprised if you wanted to ban free speech because 3 people yelled fire in a crowded movie theater.

What is your point? I'm punishing who?

Do you believe that firearms will be used in a defensive manner 4000 times in American today?

I own firearms, by the way. You're off base.

Maybe I am. Maybe I’m not. Let’s find out.

What would you like to be done with firearms?

You've got time on your hands. Let me try to be brief.

I'd like firearms to be more difficult for whack jobs to get hold of. I believe fewer firearms means fewer firearms deaths and injuries. I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment gave individuals the absolute right to keep arms. Heller was bullshit.

We have an opportunity to improve our firearms laws. I'd like to see movement in that direction.

Now. Will there be 4000 defensive uses of firearms in America today? That's a yes or no.

Maybe. I have no idea.

What laws do you want to enact and why?

See...now you went and done did it........he will either say nothing or call for laws that don't do anything and expect you to just accept his word on their effectiveness.......if he does reply, call on the idiot to explain the mechanics of the laws he wants...how they will specifically keep guns out of the hands of people who ignore the law.....

 

[ding]

I love math. Let’s do some.

The last time I looked at the FBI’s crime and statistics data the violent gun death rate was around 2. Lets round that up to 3 for the sake of argument, Ok.

This means that 99,997 people out of 100,000 people did not kill someone with a gun.

So you think it is reasonable to punish 99,997 people because of the bad acts of 3 people?

With logic like that I wouldn’t be surprised if you wanted to ban free speech because 3 people yelled fire in a crowded movie theater.

What is your point? I'm punishing who?

Do you believe that firearms will be used in a defensive manner 4000 times in American today?

I own firearms, by the way. You're off base.

Maybe I am. Maybe I’m not. Let’s find out.

What would you like to be done with firearms?

You've got time on your hands. Let me try to be brief.

I'd like firearms to be more difficult for whack jobs to get hold of. I believe fewer firearms means fewer firearms deaths and injuries. I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment gave individuals the absolute right to keep arms. Heller was bullshit.

We have an opportunity to improve our firearms laws. I'd like to see movement in that direction.

Now. Will there be 4000 defensive uses of firearms in America today? That's a yes or no.

Maybe. I have no idea.

What laws do you want to enact and why?

See...now you went and done did it........he will either say nothing or call for laws that don't do anything and expect you to just accept his word on their effectiveness.......if he does reply, call on the idiot to explain the mechanics of the laws he wants...how they will specifically keep guns out of the hands of people who ignore the law.....

We shall see.

I already caught him in one lie today.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

 

[Superbadbrutha]

T's & P's

The murderer had a shotgun and was taken out, that means shot and killed, by another person in the church who was armed. I'm certain the only thing you find wrong with this story is that more innocents were not gunned down. So I guess the prayers were answered, skank.

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

 

[miketx]

T's & P's

The murderer had a shotgun and was taken out, that means shot and killed, by another person in the church who was armed. I'm certain the only thing you find wrong with this story is that more innocents were not gunned down. So I guess the prayers were answered, skank.

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

He was black.

See? He's all black.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

T's & P's

The murderer had a shotgun and was taken out, that means shot and killed, by another person in the church who was armed. I'm certain the only thing you find wrong with this story is that more innocents were not gunned down. So I guess the prayers were answered, skank.

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

It wasn't a synagogue

 

[Superbadbrutha]

T's & P's

The murderer had a shotgun and was taken out, that means shot and killed, by another person in the church who was armed. I'm certain the only thing you find wrong with this story is that more innocents were not gunned down. So I guess the prayers were answered, skank.

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

It wasn't a synagogue

How many black folks have killed someone in a synagogue as compared to white folks?

 

[miketx]

T's & P's

The murderer had a shotgun and was taken out, that means shot and killed, by another person in the church who was armed. I'm certain the only thing you find wrong with this story is that more innocents were not gunned down. So I guess the prayers were answered, skank.

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

It wasn't a synagogue

How many black folks have killed someone in a synagogue as compared to white folks?

1000's.

 

[2aguy]

This makes the valid point...

This did not turn into a wild shoot out....the law abiding gun owners did not just start spraying gun fire around the church....they reacted with restraint....

WALSH: This Weekend Proved Again That Every House Of Worship And Every School Should Have Armed Security

In any case, this is a false choice. There was no gunfight, no wild west chaos, and no massacre on the level of Sutherland Springs. That’s because a good guy returned fire, killed the bad guy, and the other good guys refrained from spraying bullets all over the place just for the sake of it.

 

[Circe]

The poor guy who tried to draw and was shot dead is also a hero in a way. Even though he died in the process, he distracted the gunman long enough for the other guy to get a good bead on him. Seconds counted.

I saw the video! Wow, did that happen fast. I can hardly believe they all moved as fast as they did. The older man who shot the crazy did it immediately! He was church security (and standing with other security), the news said when I watched it. Migod, I can't imagine shooting so fast, and right in a church. I imagine they all had training. They were sure effective: don't mess with Texas.

 

[airplanemechanic]

If we would just ban all guns they'd all still be alive and singing kum-by-ya around a campfire.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

This entire heroic episode destroyed the LEFT'S Gun Free Zone Mantra and calls for more and more gun bans and confiscations and yet more gun control only for the LAW ABIDING. This is why the law abiding must be allowed to conceal carry.

California with the strictest gun laws had the most mass shooting last year. Even the AP is reporting that!

And Biden...he said it was irrational when Governor Abbot signed the law allowing carrying guns in churches this year...........

It is always sad in my opinion, when a person has to choose between having the means to defend their life versus possibly losing their freedom for activity that doesn't harm anyone, but is just a violation of one of the "shall nots" that the powers that be have designated.

 

[Flash]

You know, I think that if the shooter had walked in with a semi automatic handgun or an AR-15, the death toll would have been higher.

Well, the shooter was using Joe Biden's weapon of choice, a shotgun.

Speaking of "ifs" Jack Wilson said that if it wasn't for the fact a couple of people getting in the way he would have brought down the shooter in four seconds instead of six.

The shooter got Wilson's attention by shooting the two people that challenged him when he stood up. He was killed just as he tried to turn the weapon on the congregation so it doesn't make any difference what kind of weapon he had, he was a dead duck.

Stupid Liberals have been trying to ban pistols like Wilson used to bring down the killer all over the US. They would also ban Wilson from carrying it in public.

 

[Circe]

If we would just ban all guns they'd all still be alive and singing kum-by-ya around a campfire.

That was nice. Next, let's do "Michael, Row the Boat Ashore."

 

[Circe]

The only thing you find wrong with this story is that the shooter wasn't black.

Well, we can't have everything every time, Superbadbreath.