Church shooter stopped by armed citizen today? Lives saved by good guy with a gun?

[beagle9]

Who needs to carry a gun to church? People who know that evil people target good people for murder....

It is being reported that this shooter may have been stopped by armed citizens with their legal guns....saving lives, stopping the killing...

The shooter may have had a rifle, and was stopped by a good guy with a pistol...

BREAKING: Church Shooting Reported In Texas, Armed Churchgoers Appear To Have Stopped It, Reporter Suggests

“It appears that a gunman shot two church members at back of auditorium with a footlong weapon, then a member shot the gunman with a pistol,” Ross wrote. “This is just based on me watching the video again. Screaming afterward in the church. So tragic. Two quick shots at back, then another shot. Then at least three members (I believe) with pistols [walking] toward where the gunman appeared to fall.”

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------

The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.

for every SD use, there are dozens of murders

Wrong,

According to the Centers For Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop violent attacks......1.5 million if you take the number from the Department of Justice research.......

....we've been over that bullshit before AND do you know how idiotic you sound?????!!!!
'''armed person shoots gunman'' YAYYYYY YAYYAYYYYAYAY = ????!! do you know how idiotic you sound? '''there are lots of SD uses'''???!!!!!!!! WRONG = because there are mruders EVERYDAY!!!!....we see murders ALL the time in the news and NOT SD uses
..murders are reported ALL the time and NOT SD uses = SO:
1. your stats are bullshit as I have proven and linked many times on USMB
2. you sound so pathetic when someone uses a firerarm for SD use
YAYYYYY YAHAHAHHA&AYAYA an SD use!!!!!!!!!! = you go crazy because it is RARE!!

Your point is what ?? Take the rights or deminish the rights of good gun owners because we have bad people running around using guns in a bad way ?? No, you fight fire with fire is what you do, and you believe always that the good guy's will win. To believe otherwise is the wrong way to think, but so many have been brainwashed by the globalist and idiots here, that it just ain't funny anymore.

Strengthen the enforcement of laws on the books, get rid of insane activist judges that exhibit mental issues while residing upon the bench, and we're on our way again.

 

[beagle9]

Who needs to carry a gun to church? People who know that evil people target good people for murder....

It is being reported that this shooter may have been stopped by armed citizens with their legal guns....saving lives, stopping the killing...

The shooter may have had a rifle, and was stopped by a good guy with a pistol...

BREAKING: Church Shooting Reported In Texas, Armed Churchgoers Appear To Have Stopped It, Reporter Suggests

“It appears that a gunman shot two church members at back of auditorium with a footlong weapon, then a member shot the gunman with a pistol,” Ross wrote. “This is just based on me watching the video again. Screaming afterward in the church. So tragic. Two quick shots at back, then another shot. Then at least three members (I believe) with pistols [walking] toward where the gunman appeared to fall.”

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

BREAKING: Man Opens Fire At Oklahoma Walmart, Confronted By Armed Citizen, Report Says

Two people were killed at a Walmart in Oklahoma by a man who opened fire in the parking lot on Monday before turning the weapon on himself after an armed citizen confronted him.
------

The assailant, who has not yet been identified, shot and killed a man and a woman in the parking lot and when he was “confronted by an armed citizen, he then turned the gun on himself,” The Daily Mail reported.

Someone broke down the video. 7 people pulled out concealed weapons, including an old lady.

Twitter

I heard the ole woman yell "NOT IN MY CHURCH SONNY". LoL.

 

[beagle9]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

If you could tally up the many times a thief or other chooses not to attack, and this because they know the target is armed or it is a secure location, the numbers would be simply astounding, so don't try to downplay the issue in order to take away personal protections, because you will lose everytime.

 

[Pilot1]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

If you could tally up the many times a thief or other chooses not to attack, and this because they know the target is armed or it is a secure location, the numbers would be simply astounding, so don't try to downplay the issue in order to take away personal protections, because you will lose everytime.

Not only is the DETERRENT factor not counted, the times a woman stops a rape, or a person stops a carjacking, mugging and home invasion just my producing a gun with NO SHOTS FIRED are not counted either. Nothing bad happens so usually no police report, nor documentation. Of course the mentally ill Lefties can't comprehend that.

 

[Blues Man]

T's & P's

Thanks and praise for that armed citizen

 

[beagle9]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

If you could tally up the many times a thief or other chooses not to attack, and this because they know the target is armed or it is a secure location, the numbers would be simply astounding, so don't try to downplay the issue in order to take away personal protections, because you will lose everytime.

Not only is the DETERRENT factor not counted, the times a woman stops a rape, or a person stops a carjacking, mugging and home invasion just my producing a gun with NO SHOTS FIRED are counted either. Nothing bad happens so usually no police report, nor documentation. Of course the mentally ill Lefties can't comprehend that.

It is a known fact that thieves, murderers, robbers, molesters etc, are always casing, scouting, profiling, and stalking their targets and/or victim's first. What they look for is ease of attack, soft targets, vulnerability etc. If they find that the target is to secure, weaponized, and protected, they usually choose another target and therefore move on from the more hardoned ones/secure ones. Living in a society that has abandoned all common sense now, has created unsafe situations where people aren't moving further towards becoming vulnerable in such a society, but they are moving in the opposite direction where security is Paramount, and protecting ones family and friends is Paramount. Until things get better, we ain't giving up anything, and for a leftist to think so is simply insanity. For the government to think so is also insanity, because as is proven they can't stop anything, therefore we are our first line of defense always.

The leftist attempting to take away self defence apparatuses, security, and weapons that serve to protect locations, and innocent people, is a huge losing strategy by the leftist.

They should feel like complete fool's for attempting to brainwash society into what they believe in, but that don't stop them. Their overall agenda is way more important than common sense these days.

 

[williepete]

Not only is the DETERRENT factor not counted

I've used a firearm twice in my life to protect myself and family. Once in a home break in where all I did was rack the slide of my pump shotgun. Again where I informed a carjacker he was going to get his head blown off with my ex's snub nose .38. No one hurt. Crime deterred.

I'm old now and arthritic. I was trained to fight as a young man and enjoyed sparring. Only had two serious fights growing up. Can't fight anymore. Nuff said.


The same weekend that Orthodox Jews in Monsey, N.Y., were fighting off another knife-wielding anti-Semite thug with chairs and coffee tables — they were fortunate that the perpetrator hadn’t brought a firearm, like the killer who targeted a yeshiva in Jersey City only a few weeks earlier — Jack Wilson, a 71-year-old congregant and security volunteer at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas, took mere seconds to stop a potential mass murderer.

Earlier in the year, to the dismay of the usual suspects, Texas governor Greg Abbott had signed a bill making it explicitly legal for Texans with concealed-carry licenses to bring their weapons into places of worship. These kinds of protections allowed Wilson to achieve something that no gun laws now being pursued nationally by Democrats has ever accomplished: He stopped a mass shooter. My guess is that Wilson, a former deputy sheriff, is the kind of guy who probably wouldn’t have broken the law and carried a firearm into church had it been illegal to do so. The killer, on the other hand, I’m wholly certain, would have been undeterred by any laws.

Democratic-party front-runner Joe Biden called the Texas law “irrational.”

Texas Church Shooting: Concealed-Carry Law Prevented Mass Murder | National Review

 

[LoneLaugher]

Not only is the DETERRENT factor not counted

I've used a firearm twice in my life to protect myself and family. Once in a home break in where all I did was rack the slide of my pump shotgun. Again where I informed a carjacker he was going to get his head blown off with my ex's snub nose .38. No one hurt. Crime deterred.

I'm old now and arthritic. I was trained to fight as a young man and enjoyed sparring. Only had two serious fights growing up. Can't fight anymore. Nuff said.


The same weekend that Orthodox Jews in Monsey, N.Y., were fighting off another knife-wielding anti-Semite thug with chairs and coffee tables — they were fortunate that the perpetrator hadn’t brought a firearm, like the killer who targeted a yeshiva in Jersey City only a few weeks earlier — Jack Wilson, a 71-year-old congregant and security volunteer at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas, took mere seconds to stop a potential mass murderer.

Earlier in the year, to the dismay of the usual suspects, Texas governor Greg Abbott had signed a bill making it explicitly legal for Texans with concealed-carry licenses to bring their weapons into places of worship. These kinds of protections allowed Wilson to achieve something that no gun laws now being pursued nationally by Democrats has ever accomplished: He stopped a mass shooter. My guess is that Wilson, a former deputy sheriff, is the kind of guy who probably wouldn’t have broken the law and carried a firearm into church had it been illegal to do so. The killer, on the other hand, I’m wholly certain, would have been undeterred by any laws.

Democratic-party front-runner Joe Biden called the Texas law “irrational.”

Texas Church Shooting: Concealed-Carry Law Prevented Mass Murder | National Review

"I've used a firearm twice in my life to protect myself and family. Once in a home break in where all I did was rack the slide of my pump shotgun. Again where I informed a carjacker he was going to get his head blown off with my ex's snub nose .38. No one hurt. Crime deterred."

Bullshit.

 

[beagle9]

Not only is the DETERRENT factor not counted

I've used a firearm twice in my life to protect myself and family. Once in a home break in where all I did was rack the slide of my pump shotgun. Again where I informed a carjacker he was going to get his head blown off with my ex's snub nose .38. No one hurt. Crime deterred.

I'm old now and arthritic. I was trained to fight as a young man and enjoyed sparring. Only had two serious fights growing up. Can't fight anymore. Nuff said.


The same weekend that Orthodox Jews in Monsey, N.Y., were fighting off another knife-wielding anti-Semite thug with chairs and coffee tables — they were fortunate that the perpetrator hadn’t brought a firearm, like the killer who targeted a yeshiva in Jersey City only a few weeks earlier — Jack Wilson, a 71-year-old congregant and security volunteer at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas, took mere seconds to stop a potential mass murderer.

Earlier in the year, to the dismay of the usual suspects, Texas governor Greg Abbott had signed a bill making it explicitly legal for Texans with concealed-carry licenses to bring their weapons into places of worship. These kinds of protections allowed Wilson to achieve something that no gun laws now being pursued nationally by Democrats has ever accomplished: He stopped a mass shooter. My guess is that Wilson, a former deputy sheriff, is the kind of guy who probably wouldn’t have broken the law and carried a firearm into church had it been illegal to do so. The killer, on the other hand, I’m wholly certain, would have been undeterred by any laws.

Democratic-party front-runner Joe Biden called the Texas law “irrational.”

Texas Church Shooting: Concealed-Carry Law Prevented Mass Murder | National Review

"I've used a firearm twice in my life to protect myself and family. Once in a home break in where all I did was rack the slide of my pump shotgun. Again where I informed a carjacker he was going to get his head blown off with my ex's snub nose .38. No one hurt. Crime deterred."

Bullshit.

You hate it when you can't refute the argument presented, so all you can yell is bullcrap to the poster, when in fact it is insane that you hollar bullcrap not knowing if the poster was sincere or not. LOL.

 

[beagle9]

There needs to be a nation wide accounting and poll taken on thwarted attacks due to the target being armed, and the criminal detered in the situation because the target was armed or the location was secured.

Nevermind, the numbers would be challenged in the most ridiculous ways imaginable.

We know the truth of the matter, and the truth is that burying ones head in the sand, and listening to demoncrat politicians is a failed way of learning the truth. Anyone voting Democrat today has mental problems, and that is the truth.

 

[2aguy]

There needs to be a nation wide accounting and poll taken on thwarted attacks due to the target being armed, and the criminal detered in the situation because the target was armed or the location was secured.

Nevermind, the numbers would be challenged in the most ridiculous ways imaginable.

We know the truth of the matter, and the truth is that burying ones head in the sand, and listening to demoncrat politicians is a failed way of learning the truth. Anyone voting Democrat today has mental problems, and that is the truth.

There have been 17 studies on this in the past....and they still deny them......even studies done by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, and in 2013 obama ordered the CDC to look at all the research dealing with defensive gun use....gave them 10 million dollars to do it....and they found between 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses a year..........

That was obama trying to kick start the anti-gun movement when his idea to give guns to drug cartels failed....

 

[williepete]

You hate it when you can't refute the argument presented, so all you can yell is bullcrap to the poster, when in fact it is insane that you hollar bullcrap not knowing if the poster was sincere or not. LOL.

That's why he resides on Ignore Island. Nothing to offer.

 

[Pilot1]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

If you could tally up the many times a thief or other chooses not to attack, and this because they know the target is armed or it is a secure location, the numbers would be simply astounding, so don't try to downplay the issue in order to take away personal protections, because you will lose everytime.

There needs to be a nation wide accounting and poll taken on thwarted attacks due to the target being armed, and the criminal detered in the situation because the target was armed or the location was secured.

Nevermind, the numbers would be challenged in the most ridiculous ways imaginable.

We know the truth of the matter, and the truth is that burying ones head in the sand, and listening to demoncrat politicians is a failed way of learning the truth. Anyone voting Democrat today has mental problems, and that is the truth.

There have been 17 studies on this in the past....and they still deny them......even studies done by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, and in 2013 obama ordered the CDC to look at all the research dealing with defensive gun use....gave them 10 million dollars to do it....and they found between 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses a year..........

That was obama trying to kick start the anti-gun movement when his idea to give guns to drug cartels failed....

And because the MEDIA and the Obama Admin didn't like the results of the CDC and DOJ studies, they BURIED them, or at least tried to. It is clear that when people legally use guns to defend themselves, the outcomes are much better for the good guys.

 

[2aguy]

The OP has had a wonderful time imagining that someone MAY HAVE used their firearm in a defensive manner at this mass shooting.

If the MAY HAVE turns out to be true, then that is ONE case on that day.

Where are the other 4000 cases from the same day? The day before? The day before that?

The OP believes that we have about 4000 defensive uses of firearms in this nation EVERY DAY.

What do his fellow nutbags feel about that math?

If you could tally up the many times a thief or other chooses not to attack, and this because they know the target is armed or it is a secure location, the numbers would be simply astounding, so don't try to downplay the issue in order to take away personal protections, because you will lose everytime.

There needs to be a nation wide accounting and poll taken on thwarted attacks due to the target being armed, and the criminal detered in the situation because the target was armed or the location was secured.

Nevermind, the numbers would be challenged in the most ridiculous ways imaginable.

We know the truth of the matter, and the truth is that burying ones head in the sand, and listening to demoncrat politicians is a failed way of learning the truth. Anyone voting Democrat today has mental problems, and that is the truth.

There have been 17 studies on this in the past....and they still deny them......even studies done by the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice, and in 2013 obama ordered the CDC to look at all the research dealing with defensive gun use....gave them 10 million dollars to do it....and they found between 500,000-3 million defensive gun uses a year..........

That was obama trying to kick start the anti-gun movement when his idea to give guns to drug cartels failed....

And because the MEDIA and the Obama Admin didn't like the results of the CDC and DOJ studies, they BURIED them, or at least tried to. It is clear that when people legally use guns to defend themselves, the outcomes are much better for the good guys.

If you read the Department of Justice research done during the clinton administration...when they were pushing their gun control agenda...it is really pretty funny. They hired anti-gun researchers who created their very own study, using their own research methods, all with the goal of showing that Dr. Gary Kleck was wrong.

Then, they did the research, using their methods and techniques.......and found the same results....1.5 million times a year people use guns for self defense....then, they spend the rest of their paper stating how they are wrong....that their methods, that they used are wrong.....and that we need more gun control....

It is really funny reading....

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well...it appears that the dude who stopped the nutbag with a gun here was a trained firearms
expert with a gun. he did a fine job and is to be applauded.

America! The land where a church service wherein 2 people are shot to death is
a big win for freedom.

Congrats, boys!

 

[2aguy]

Well...it appears that the dude who stopped the nutbag with a gun here was a trained firearms
expert with a gun. he did a fine job and is to be applauded.

America! The land where a church service wherein 2 people are shot to death is
a big win for freedom.

Congrats, boys!

Russia....Polytechnic shooting.....5 shot, tube fed, pump action shotgun........

20 killed 70 injured.

Texas church shooter....5 shot, tube fed, pump action shotgun.....

2 killed before he was stopped in 6 seconds by privately armed Americans.

America....armed citizen...a former reserve sherrif ( Which means he worked less than part time as an officer) and about 5 other people with legal guns stop the attacker....in 6 seconds

2 dead

Yes.....armed Americans are a good thing....

 

[2aguy]

A quick look at a random "Reserve Police Officer" hourly requirement......just as a sample....

16 hours a month............ so the anti-gunner argument he was a trained law enforcement officer is a joke......

That he owned a gun store and likely trained with his weapon is not a joke and the more training you can get the better off we are....so more Americans should buy, own and carry guns, and we should make it as easy as possible for them to train with those guns.......

 

[beagle9]

A quick look at a random "Reserve Police Officer" hourly requirement......just as a sample....

16 hours a month............ so the anti-gunner argument he was a trained law enforcement officer is a joke......

That he owned a gun store and likely trained with his weapon is not a joke and the more training you can get the better off we are....so more Americans should buy, own and carry guns, and we should make it as easy as possible for them to train with those guns.......

The leftist worry is this I think... They've seen politicians create so many crazies out there in society now, that they figure that the crazies out number the good guy's ten to one these days. So the concern is that there will be more crazies out there with guns than there is of the one good guy who is out there to stop the crazies with a gun. Well this is the reason we should arm ourselves in far greater numbers than in the past, because yes we have a huge amount of crazies willing to do harm to others than ever before in America, and the police just can't be everywhere all the time. FACT !

Politicians, dependency and lies creates crazies, because dependency comes with the lies of blaming those who are not dependent for the problems of the dependent, and then we have these lying scumbag pandering politicians fueling the flames of divide for their lust for power and personal gains in life. Anyone that can't see this is blind these days.

 

[WEATHER53]

Good people with guns stop bad people with guns

 

[LoneLaugher]

Bad people without guns don't shoot good people.