Citizen ID Card:

[Kooshdakhaa]

Rather than a card, wouldn't it be easier to say, carry a mark or tattoo on your hand or forehead?

Just kidding.

Against it. Too much opportunity for abuse years downstream.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

I'm against it, too. Our identification requirements are just fine the way they are. Except I'm sick and tired of being forced to use my social security number as identification for every damn thing other than social security.

 

[rightwinger]

Rather than a card, wouldn't it be easier to say, carry a mark or tattoo on your hand or forehead?

Just kidding.

Against it. Too much opportunity for abuse years downstream.

That's exactly what I was thinking!

I'm against it, too. Our identification requirements are just fine the way they are. Except I'm sick and tired of being forced to use my social security number as identification for every damn thing other than social security.

How can it be abused?

Wouldn't you rather have one card that can be used for all your needs?

 

[WorldWatcher]

For those who don't know what a biometric ID card is, briefly stated it is one which cannot be faked, mainly because the validity of the data it contains may be instantly verified by "swiping" the card in an on-line reader, just like a credit card in a retail store, thus comparing it with information on file at a central government database -- which includes a photograph, fingerprint, and physical description.

Just to be techical, the identify the card holder as the person whose information is on the card it will not just be "swipe the card" and comparing it to a database.

The holder of the card will have to private the biometric data contained in the card in a separate scan so the system has two points of comparison. Take for example the use of retinal or fingerprints. If someone just swipes the card and it is run against a database, a positive result only shows that there was a match to the card in the database. To identify the identity of the card holder, you would have to take a retinal scan or fingerprint at that time and transmit that for database comparison.



>>>>

 

[S.J.]

It won't stop illegal immigration. Just like SS numbers, drivers licenses, and now medical information under Obamacare, it will be used against U.S. citizens by the government. The difference will be that it will make it even easier and more efficient for government to track us and abuse their power.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

My support is for all immigrants to carry such a card at their own expense and, if asked, be required to produce it any time, any where - including on their death bed after sixty years of citizenship.

But for people born here?

Not now. Not ever.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

My support is for all immigrants to carry such a card at their own expense and, if asked, be required to produce it any time, any where - including on their death bed after sixty years of citizenship.

But for people born here?

Not now. Not ever.

Once an immigrant becomes a U.S. citizen, they're a U.S. citizen. Period. We should make the requirements to become a citizen tougher, if needed, but once someone satisfies those requirements and takes the oath...they should be treated just like EVERY OTHER CITIZEN.

 

[rightwinger]

It won't stop illegal immigration. Just like SS numbers, drivers licenses, and now medical information under Obamacare, it will be used against U.S. citizens by the government. The difference will be that it will make it even easier and more efficient for government to track us and abuse their power.

Why can't government track you right now? You have a cell phone? Makes you easier to track than an ID would.

What would be easier?

 

[MikeK]

It won't stop illegal immigration. Just like SS numbers, drivers licenses, and now medical information under Obamacare, it will be used against U.S. citizens by the government. The difference will be that it will make it even easier and more efficient for government to track us and abuse their power.

Why can't government track you right now? You have a cell phone? Makes you easier to track than an ID would.

What would be easier?

Beyond that, I question the very notion that an ID card can be used to "track" its holder. It's not an RFID chip. It's a card which contains only such information needed to verify one's legitimate citizenship.

A Libertarian icon like Rand Paul says "track" and the acolytes hop aboard without a thought.

 

[williepete]

Please be specific. What kind of abuse?

Hi Mike,

As Rightwinger points out, I like the idea of having a one card fits all. When this idea was first floated, I was all for it. I live in a border state where illegals are a problem of epidemic proportion. I wanted and still want the illegals to have and carry a work visa just like the one I'd have to have if I worked in another country. Our good neighbor Canada has a high functioning guest worker program. Why we haven't 'copied and pasted' it for our use is beyond me. I thought a U.S. ID would be great. If you don't have one, you can't get a job unless you had a guest worker visa.

The more I thought about it, the more I saw the opportunity for abuse out of malice or incompetence. I worked for the federal government for 15 years and they have honed incompetence to a fine art. I don't want some government flunky who has access to the 'citizenship data base' having the power to erase my God given liberties at a whim or a screw up. Trust me. Nothing is beyond or beneath a brainless federal government drone.

The recent scandals developing with the IRS, DoJ and DoS, should give us more pause for thought. I'm not a conspiracy nut. I just know these guys that work for government. They can't even deliver the mail or renew a drivers license properly. I'm sure as Hell not going to trust them with my citizenship.

The idea has much merit and perhaps with a bit of tweaking, would be something we could use.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Montrovant]

Such a card may be an inevitability. However, I think I prefer fighting it for now.

First, I don't like the idea of a required ID. I don't want to hear excuses about how 'everyone already has this or that', right now there is no requirement for any kind of ID. It may be unusual, but some people DO live lives that do not require any ID card. I very rarely have use for mine, and would probably not be too bothered if I didn't have one at all.

I don't like the way this leads to thoughts of 'papers, please'. That may be a bit paranoid, but it doesn't change the association.

I worry about the potential dangers if there is either an unintended problem with reading the card/taking whatever sign from the person is necessary, or a malicious problem.

I worry about how safe whatever database holds this information will be. Will someone be able to hack into it and destroy people's lives?

Will the data readers be safe, or will the same dangers exist as I worry over with the database?

If I lose my ID, will I be assumed to be an illegal by the authorities? That might be easily cleared up, but it could lead to some very unfortunate situations until such clearing up occurs. Especially if the agency or agencies involved work as efficiently as certain other government organizations that come to mind.....

Again, as technology continues to improve, an ID like this may be inevitable. I don't think we're quite to the point it's a good idea yet, though.

 

[Immanuel]

I'm all for it

A single card that proves without a doubt who you are. Use it for identification, voting, a drivers license, a credit card, a health insurance card, social security, passport, on line purchases....

Stops identity theft and you only have to carry one card with you

Voting. Right there is why it will never pass. The last thing most Democrats (including Charles Schumer) want is a requirement that a voter positively identify him or her self.

This is nothing more than political posturing.

VOTER-ID HYSTERIA - NYPOST.com

Schumer's Identity Politics - - News - New York - Village Voice

"The rolls are bloated with deadwood, literally," says a Bond spokesperson. "It's a joke! That's why Kit is demanding voters show ID—to restore integrity to the system."

Schumer disagreed. A signature should be sufficient. Any more hurdles would cripple voter turnout, he reasoned, and already too many citizens were not voting. Minorities, recent immigrants, the poor, young voters, the disabled, students who move often, the lazy and forgetful—all key Democratic constituencies—would be disenfranchised. Proper identification is more readily available to a proper class, he argued on the Senate floor, especially in New York City. Fewer than half his voting-age constituents have driver's licenses, he calculated, and for those with roommates, utility and phone bills are often in others' names.

Immie

 

[rightwinger]

I'm all for it

A single card that proves without a doubt who you are. Use it for identification, voting, a drivers license, a credit card, a health insurance card, social security, passport, on line purchases....

Stops identity theft and you only have to carry one card with you

Voting. Right there is why it will never pass. The last thing most Democrats (including Charles Schumer) want is a requirement that a voter positively identify him or her self.

This is nothing more than political posturing.

VOTER-ID HYSTERIA - NYPOST.com

Schumer's Identity Politics - - News - New York - Village Voice

"The rolls are bloated with deadwood, literally," says a Bond spokesperson. "It's a joke! That's why Kit is demanding voters show ID—to restore integrity to the system."

Schumer disagreed. A signature should be sufficient. Any more hurdles would cripple voter turnout, he reasoned, and already too many citizens were not voting. Minorities, recent immigrants, the poor, young voters, the disabled, students who move often, the lazy and forgetful—all key Democratic constituencies—would be disenfranchised. Proper identification is more readily available to a proper class, he argued on the Senate floor, especially in New York City. Fewer than half his voting-age constituents have driver's licenses, he calculated, and for those with roommates, utility and phone bills are often in others' names.

Immie

There is a difference between asking people without ID to come up with one and providing everyone a unique ID. Provide everyone an ID and then require one to vote

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Liberals, consider this...a citizen I.D.'s would make it viable to dismantle the anchor baby system.

If neither mother nor father has a Citizen I.D., the child will not be a citizen, regardless of where they are born.

It would stop illegal immigration in its tracks
Go for a job, scan your ID and your citizenship status would show up

Children of illegals would still be US citizens if they are born here

Why? If there was a system in place that proved the citizenship of the parents, and all citizens were required to have one, there would be no need to continue that system. Children of citizens would become citizens, others would retain their parents citizenship.

Go to the hospital, scan your I.D., that's your child's citizenship.

Go to get a birth certificate, scan the parents I.D., that's the child's citizenship.

The law of unintended consequences.

Incorrect.

Children born in the United States are citizens of the United States, regardless their parents’ citizenship or immigration status.

Otherwise, a National ID card would pose too great a threat one’s privacy rights.

 

[whitehall]

The Obama administration is in trouble because the IRS has been proven to be a corrupt political tool. Who do we trust with the rest of our personal file information? Eric Holder's "justice dept"?

 

[rightwinger]

It would stop illegal immigration in its tracks
Go for a job, scan your ID and your citizenship status would show up

Children of illegals would still be US citizens if they are born here

Why? If there was a system in place that proved the citizenship of the parents, and all citizens were required to have one, there would be no need to continue that system. Children of citizens would become citizens, others would retain their parents citizenship.

Go to the hospital, scan your I.D., that's your child's citizenship.

Go to get a birth certificate, scan the parents I.D., that's the child's citizenship.

The law of unintended consequences.

Incorrect.

Children born in the United States are citizens of the United States, regardless their parents’ citizenship or immigration status.

Otherwise, a National ID card would pose too great a threat one’s privacy rights.

A national ID proves without doubt who you are. It would provide secure access to data bases that already exist including driving, social security, medical , banking and credit

It would secure you against identity theft. The evil government can already access these data bases if they choose

 

[S.J.]

It won't stop illegal immigration. Just like SS numbers, drivers licenses, and now medical information under Obamacare, it will be used against U.S. citizens by the government. The difference will be that it will make it even easier and more efficient for government to track us and abuse their power.

Why can't government track you right now? You have a cell phone? Makes you easier to track than an ID would.

What would be easier?

I want the government to have LESS access to my personal information, now more.

 

[Immanuel]

I'm all for it

A single card that proves without a doubt who you are. Use it for identification, voting, a drivers license, a credit card, a health insurance card, social security, passport, on line purchases....

Stops identity theft and you only have to carry one card with you

Voting. Right there is why it will never pass. The last thing most Democrats (including Charles Schumer) want is a requirement that a voter positively identify him or her self.

This is nothing more than political posturing.

VOTER-ID HYSTERIA - NYPOST.com

Schumer's Identity Politics - - News - New York - Village Voice

"The rolls are bloated with deadwood, literally," says a Bond spokesperson. "It's a joke! That's why Kit is demanding voters show ID—to restore integrity to the system."

Schumer disagreed. A signature should be sufficient. Any more hurdles would cripple voter turnout, he reasoned, and already too many citizens were not voting. Minorities, recent immigrants, the poor, young voters, the disabled, students who move often, the lazy and forgetful—all key Democratic constituencies—would be disenfranchised. Proper identification is more readily available to a proper class, he argued on the Senate floor, especially in New York City. Fewer than half his voting-age constituents have driver's licenses, he calculated, and for those with roommates, utility and phone bills are often in others' names.

Immie

There is a difference between asking people without ID to come up with one and providing everyone a unique ID. Provide everyone an ID and then require one to vote

So, then, I take it he intends to give these ID cards to illegal aliens as they cross the border? WTF?

How does he expect to get the dead to provide their IDs?

Immie

 

[longknife]

I think it's a good idea.

I don't see how it's "intrusive" and know that many, many other countries have them with no excessive costs, most countries making them free to citizens.

Recently went through it with my wife in Mexico.

She had a valid passport but Mexico requires a valid ID card used to verify their voting eligibility. Had to provide a birth certificate with photos - all free - and going to the local voting office. Card came and is used for all sorts of things.

Not one bit intrusive. Minimal cost.

I, for one, would gladly accept it.

 

[rightwinger]

Voting. Right there is why it will never pass. The last thing most Democrats (including Charles Schumer) want is a requirement that a voter positively identify him or her self.

This is nothing more than political posturing.

VOTER-ID HYSTERIA - NYPOST.com

Schumer's Identity Politics - - News - New York - Village Voice



Immie

There is a difference between asking people without ID to come up with one and providing everyone a unique ID. Provide everyone an ID and then require one to vote

So, then, I take it he intends to give these ID cards to illegal aliens as they cross the border? WTF?

How does he expect to get the dead to provide their IDs?

Immie

Illegals would not have acces to national ID cards. In fact, it would keep them from finding jobs

That is why conservatives hate it

 

[rightwinger]

It won't stop illegal immigration. Just like SS numbers, drivers licenses, and now medical information under Obamacare, it will be used against U.S. citizens by the government. The difference will be that it will make it even easier and more efficient for government to track us and abuse their power.

Why can't government track you right now? You have a cell phone? Makes you easier to track than an ID would.

What would be easier?

I want the government to have LESS access to my personal information, now more.

How does a national ID provid more access by the government?

Nobody in this thread has been able to prove it

Can you?