Clash of Civilizations

[rightwinger]

No, it wasn't. America was a country of assimilation. It is multiculturalism which is turning Western civilization into a third-world shithole.

Thats what todays popular mythology says

I reality you had ethnic groups all forming their own communities .....Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Swedesboro. All maintaining their own culture and speaking in foreign tongues

Second generations always assimilate. First generation, not always

OMG, its not mythology that immigrants assimilated as fast as possible because they needed to become americans in order to be successful.

yes, the chinese, italians, germans, etc settled together, but they all learned english and adopted american customs as well as keeping some of their own.

You never saw a Chinese flag fly over an elementary school in chinatown, but we do see Mexican flags over schools today in the southwest.

Most Mexicans do the same thing

Immigrants then did as much assimilation as they needed to. If they were isolated from people from the old country, they assimilated out of necessity. If there were small groups of Italians or Polish or Germans in your town, they still spoke the old language to themselves and carried on the old traditions

In cities, they could take over entire neighborhoods, where the native language was spoken and the old customs were maintained. Some barely learned to speak english...but their children did

 

[Redfish]

Thats what todays popular mythology says

I reality you had ethnic groups all forming their own communities .....Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Swedesboro. All maintaining their own culture and speaking in foreign tongues

Second generations always assimilate. First generation, not always

OMG, its not mythology that immigrants assimilated as fast as possible because they needed to become americans in order to be successful.

yes, the chinese, italians, germans, etc settled together, but they all learned english and adopted american customs as well as keeping some of their own.

You never saw a Chinese flag fly over an elementary school in chinatown, but we do see Mexican flags over schools today in the southwest.

Most Mexicans do the same thing

Immigrants then did as much assimilation as they needed to. If they were isolated from people from the old country, they assimilated out of necessity. If there were small groups of Italians or Polish or Germans in your town, they still spoke the old language to themselves and carried on the old traditions

In cities, they could take over entire neighborhoods, where the native language was spoken and the old customs were maintained. Some barely learned to speak english...but their children did

Yeah, so whats your point? They all became americans. First generation for some, second for others. How many generations will have to be born and die in this country before those with african heritage will no longer be african-americans?

 

[rightwinger]

OMG, its not mythology that immigrants assimilated as fast as possible because they needed to become americans in order to be successful.

yes, the chinese, italians, germans, etc settled together, but they all learned english and adopted american customs as well as keeping some of their own.

You never saw a Chinese flag fly over an elementary school in chinatown, but we do see Mexican flags over schools today in the southwest.

Most Mexicans do the same thing

Immigrants then did as much assimilation as they needed to. If they were isolated from people from the old country, they assimilated out of necessity. If there were small groups of Italians or Polish or Germans in your town, they still spoke the old language to themselves and carried on the old traditions

In cities, they could take over entire neighborhoods, where the native language was spoken and the old customs were maintained. Some barely learned to speak english...but their children did

Yeah, so whats your point? They all became americans. First generation for some, second for others. How many generations will have to be born and die in this country before those with african heritage will no longer be african-americans?

African Americans had their culture forcibly taken from them

Blacks have their own culture, so do Southerners, New Yorkers, Californians....

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Contumacious]

The Shah was bringing Iran into the modern world, freeing its people, and eliminating the radical muslim fanatics.

you may not like his methods, but he was doing what it took to modernize that country,

Now they are moving back into the 11th century---but with nukes thanks to obama.

Really? Why was he forced into exile? Why did they want to execute him?

.

Because the process of education and modernisation was incomplete and the ignorant masses supported the Islamic fanatics. Do you have any more questions with easy answers?

I see.

So the SAVAK was like our Department of Education?

SAVAK (Persian: ساواک, short for سازمان اطلاعات و امنیت کشور Sāzemān-e Ettelā'āt va Amniyat-e Keshvar, Organization of Intelligence and National Security) was the secret police, domestic security and intelligence service established by Iran's Mohammad Reza Shah with the help of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (the CIA).. SAVAK has been described as Iran's "most hated and feared institution" prior to the revolution of 1979 because of its practice of torturing and executing opponents of the Pahlavi regime.[2][3]

Writing at the time of the Shah's overthrow, TIME magazine described SAVAK as having "long been Iran's most hated and feared institution" which had "tortured and murdered thousands of the Shah's opponents."[23] The Federation of American Scientists also found it guilty of "the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners" and symbolizing "the Shah's rule from 1963-79." The FAS list of SAVAK torture methods included "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails." [24]

.

 

[Peterf]

The Shah was bringing Iran into the modern world, freeing its people, and eliminating the radical muslim fanatics.

you may not like his methods, but he was doing what it took to modernize that country,

Now they are moving back into the 11th century---but with nukes thanks to obama.

The Shah was doing nothing of the sort.

The Shah overthrew a democratically elected Prime Minister and established a personal dictatorship. This included a secret police that terrorized dissenters.

And the fact was, the Shah didn't have the moral authority to go after the "Radical Mulsims", so they became the only viable oppossition force. All the nice, sensible Western Educated Iranians were either exiled or executed. So when the Shah fell, the Mullahs were the only ones who could maintain order.

Basically it was the Shah that caused "radical muslims".

One of the only places he wasn't chasing political opponents around in were mosques.

And that's were the "radicals" started hiding.

No. A nice theory but wrong. The Shah, like his father before him, combated the endemic radical Islam that was there long before either of them.

 

[Peterf]

Really? Why was he forced into exile? Why did they want to execute him?

.

Because the process of education and modernisation was incomplete and the ignorant masses supported the Islamic fanatics. Do you have any more questions with easy answers?

I see.

So the SAVAK was like our Department of Education?

SAVAK (Persian: ساواک, short for سازمان اطلاعات و امنیت کشور Sāzemān-e Ettelā'āt va Amniyat-e Keshvar, Organization of Intelligence and National Security) was the secret police, domestic security and intelligence service established by Iran's Mohammad Reza Shah with the help of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (the CIA).. SAVAK has been described as Iran's "most hated and feared institution" prior to the revolution of 1979 because of its practice of torturing and executing opponents of the Pahlavi regime.[2][3]

Writing at the time of the Shah's overthrow, TIME magazine described SAVAK as having "long been Iran's most hated and feared institution" which had "tortured and murdered thousands of the Shah's opponents."[23] The Federation of American Scientists also found it guilty of "the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners" and symbolizing "the Shah's rule from 1963-79." The FAS list of SAVAK torture methods included "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails." [24]

.

I just love the "has been described as" and the "is said to be". But you are right Savak was an unpleasant outfit. But were like the Salvation Army or the Boy Scouts of America compared to the terror that came after them. Under the Shah a few people were executed every year; under Khomeni a few hundred were killed in a morning.

 

[Contumacious]

Because the process of education and modernisation was incomplete and the ignorant masses supported the Islamic fanatics. Do you have any more questions with easy answers?

I see.

So the SAVAK was like our Department of Education?

SAVAK (Persian: ساواک, short for سازمان اطلاعات و امنیت کشور Sāzemān-e Ettelā'āt va Amniyat-e Keshvar, Organization of Intelligence and National Security) was the secret police, domestic security and intelligence service established by Iran's Mohammad Reza Shah with the help of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (the CIA).. SAVAK has been described as Iran's "most hated and feared institution" prior to the revolution of 1979 because of its practice of torturing and executing opponents of the Pahlavi regime.[2][3]

Writing at the time of the Shah's overthrow, TIME magazine described SAVAK as having "long been Iran's most hated and feared institution" which had "tortured and murdered thousands of the Shah's opponents."[23] The Federation of American Scientists also found it guilty of "the torture and execution of thousands of political prisoners" and symbolizing "the Shah's rule from 1963-79." The FAS list of SAVAK torture methods included "electric shock, whipping, beating, inserting broken glass and pouring boiling water into the rectum, tying weights to the testicles, and the extraction of teeth and nails." [24]

.

I just love the "has been described as" and the "is said to be". But you are right Savak was an unpleasant outfit. But were like the Salvation Army or the Boy Scouts of America compared to the terror that came after them. Under the Shah a few people were executed every year; under Khomeni a few hundred were killed in a morning.

Really? Was he forced into exile?

Do they want to execute him?

.

 

[JQPublic1]

Typical narrow mindedness! Judge an entire nation by actions of a few criminals? Are you forgetting the heydays of the KKK where lynching Blacks almost became a national past time? Some of the bodies were still clad in the uniforms of American soldiers.

A far more current and poignant example would be judging all of America by black crime rates. But I understand you couldn't bring yourself to do it.

As long as those crime rates are generated and compiled by people like you a question of credibility materializes.

 

[Vox]

There may actually be a French culture but over here we do not have anything similar. What is American culture? White bread and mayo? No. it's a melange made up of the best the world has to offer. France will survive as a nation but ask yourself what nationalism is good for? Internal division and useless war is two things that come to mind.

Our immigration policy reflects racial quotas. It is not based on merit.

Look at the world and you will find that it is 90% non-white. So a fair immigration system is going to be mostly non-white.

who said it should it be FAIR?

it should be BENEFICIAL, not fair

It has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity per se - but everything with educational level and work ethic.

Look at Indian immigrants. Extremely beneficial to this country.So far, becasue the types as that skunk of a maid which blackmailed her employer is the exactly the opposite example.

 

[Vox]

Thats what todays popular mythology says

I reality you had ethnic groups all forming their own communities .....Little Italy, Chinatown, Germantown, Swedesboro. All maintaining their own culture and speaking in foreign tongues

Second generations always assimilate. First generation, not always

OMG, its not mythology that immigrants assimilated as fast as possible because they needed to become americans in order to be successful.

yes, the chinese, italians, germans, etc settled together, but they all learned english and adopted american customs as well as keeping some of their own.

You never saw a Chinese flag fly over an elementary school in chinatown, but we do see Mexican flags over schools today in the southwest.

Most Mexicans do the same thing

Immigrants then did as much assimilation as they needed to. If they were isolated from people from the old country, they assimilated out of necessity. If there were small groups of Italians or Polish or Germans in your town, they still spoke the old language to themselves and carried on the old traditions

In cities, they could take over entire neighborhoods, where the native language was spoken and the old customs were maintained. Some barely learned to speak english...but their children did

^^^this.

Italians, Germans, Irish, Chinese were assimilating because the climate in the country was different - there were no "for Italian press 2", forms in their languages and all other accommodation as we now see with Spanish speaking accommodation.

This PC bullshit is actually an extreme disservice to those Spanish speaking immigrants - as it keeps them down there -at the bottom.
Knowing the hideous nature of the left and knowing that all this BS of "not hurting or offending their feewings by requiring them to learn proper English and assimilate" is propelled by dimocraps, the conclusion is obvious - the dumbing down of the whole class of potentially successful people to keep them on the dimocrap plantation is carefully planned.

 

[Mac1958]

This PC bullshit is actually an extreme disservice to those Spanish speaking immigrants - as it keeps them down there -at the bottom.

That's exactly right.

So either the PC Police don't understand this or they don't care.

Take your pick.

.

 

[rightwinger]

OMG, its not mythology that immigrants assimilated as fast as possible because they needed to become americans in order to be successful.

yes, the chinese, italians, germans, etc settled together, but they all learned english and adopted american customs as well as keeping some of their own.

You never saw a Chinese flag fly over an elementary school in chinatown, but we do see Mexican flags over schools today in the southwest.

Most Mexicans do the same thing

Immigrants then did as much assimilation as they needed to. If they were isolated from people from the old country, they assimilated out of necessity. If there were small groups of Italians or Polish or Germans in your town, they still spoke the old language to themselves and carried on the old traditions

In cities, they could take over entire neighborhoods, where the native language was spoken and the old customs were maintained. Some barely learned to speak english...but their children did

^^^this.

Italians, Germans, Irish, Chinese were assimilating because the climate in the country was different - there were no "for Italian press 2", forms in their languages and all other accommodation as we now see with Spanish speaking accommodation.

This PC bullshit is actually an extreme disservice to those Spanish speaking immigrants - as it keeps them down there -at the bottom.
Knowing the hideous nature of the left and knowing that all this BS of "not hurting or offending their feewings by requiring them to learn proper English and assimilate" is propelled by dimocraps, the conclusion is obvious - the dumbing down of the whole class of potentially successful people to keep them on the dimocrap plantation is carefully planned.

There were no computers and no telephone answering machines, so there was no "press 1 for Spanish"

There were newspapers printed entirely in Italian or Chinese. If you were running for election in those areas, you had flyers printed in Italian or Chinese. If you were selling something in those areas, you printed flyers in the language of your potential customers....just like today

 

[Sawbriars]

European immigrants made up the great and overwhelming majoirty of our immigrants up to 1965 when LBJ rammed through a radical change in our immigration policy that for the first time allowed third world immigrants to come here in huge numbers...not even to mention all the illegal immigrants from 3rd world nations that were allowed to slip in.........European immigrants brought with them a similr religious belief, were well educated and had job skills.... they did implement bits and pieces of their cultures into the whole of America rather than clinging to their former homes singular culture. They were proud to become Americans, they did not want to "go home" because America was their home. They taught their children to speak only English and learn American ways rather than their former ways. They dressed as Americans, ate American food, bought American products, learned and celebrated American holidays. And yes, they fought for their freedom that they found in America. Because American culture's foundation is freedom

Contrast the above scenario with the sort of immigrants this nation is now overwhelmed with.

This is not rocket science folks..............the problem being the White Working Class is not politially astute....they are watching sports as their class is being preyed on and systmatically destroyed.

Uh, guy, you really don't know what you are talking about.

Most of these immigrants you are crapping your pants over assimiliate better and faster than our ancestors did.

For instance, when I was growing up in Chicago in the 1960's, you still had your Polish neighborhoods, your Irish neighborhoods, your Italian Neighborhoods.... even though you had your second or third generation. It really wasn't until they all started moving out to the Suburbs they lost their "ethnic" identies.

But frankly, the Hispanic and Asian immigrants are speaking letter perfect English by the second generation taht they are here.

The real divide isn't between race, it's by class.

The wealthy white guys who are telling you that minority wants half your cookie when he's just wolfed down the other 10 is not your friend.

Bullshite.......Look here homeboy.....you need to take a walk in the real world.

Report: America's fault immigrants are not assimilating | The Daily Caller

 

[Sawbriars]

America's Racia and Ethnic Divide


washingtonpost.com: Myth of the Melting Pot: America's Racial and Ethnic Divides

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

European immigrants made up the great and overwhelming majoirty of our immigrants up to 1965 when LBJ rammed through a radical change in our immigration policy that for the first time allowed third world immigrants to come here in huge numbers...not even to mention all the illegal immigrants from 3rd world nations that were allowed to slip in.........European immigrants brought with them a similr religious belief, were well educated and had job skills.... they did implement bits and pieces of their cultures into the whole of America rather than clinging to their former homes singular culture. They were proud to become Americans, they did not want to "go home" because America was their home. They taught their children to speak only English and learn American ways rather than their former ways. They dressed as Americans, ate American food, bought American products, learned and celebrated American holidays. And yes, they fought for their freedom that they found in America. Because American culture's foundation is freedom

Contrast the above scenario with the sort of immigrants this nation is now overwhelmed with.

This is not rocket science folks..............the problem being the White Working Class is not politially astute....they are watching sports as their class is being preyed on and systmatically destroyed.

Ignorant, unsubstantiated nonsense.

The country is not ‘overwhelmed’ by anyone, that’s merely your hateful perception.

 

[Iceman]

European immigrants made up the great and overwhelming majoirty of our immigrants up to 1965 when LBJ rammed through a radical change in our immigration policy that for the first time allowed third world immigrants to come here in huge numbers...not even to mention all the illegal immigrants from 3rd world nations that were allowed to slip in.........European immigrants brought with them a similr religious belief, were well educated and had job skills.... they did implement bits and pieces of their cultures into the whole of America rather than clinging to their former homes singular culture. They were proud to become Americans, they did not want to "go home" because America was their home. They taught their children to speak only English and learn American ways rather than their former ways. They dressed as Americans, ate American food, bought American products, learned and celebrated American holidays. And yes, they fought for their freedom that they found in America. Because American culture's foundation is freedom

Contrast the above scenario with the sort of immigrants this nation is now overwhelmed with.

This is not rocket science folks..............the problem being the White Working Class is not politially astute....they are watching sports as their class is being preyed on and systmatically destroyed.

Uh, guy, you really don't know what you are talking about.

Most of these immigrants you are crapping your pants over assimiliate better and faster than our ancestors did.

For instance, when I was growing up in Chicago in the 1960's, you still had your Polish neighborhoods, your Irish neighborhoods, your Italian Neighborhoods.... even though you had your second or third generation. It really wasn't until they all started moving out to the Suburbs they lost their "ethnic" identies.

But frankly, the Hispanic and Asian immigrants are speaking letter perfect English by the second generation taht they are here.

The real divide isn't between race, it's by class.

The wealthy white guys who are telling you that minority wants half your cookie when he's just wolfed down the other 10 is not your friend.

yep. If there are ten cookies, the status quo white rich guy will take 9 and tell you the immigrant is trying to take the other one.

The rich whites and rich jews want the immigrants for cheap labor. The working white man has no representation, and if he speaks out against mass immigration, rich whites and rich jews use their media and political organs to demonize him as "racist".

 

[Sawbriars]

Study: Number Of Illegal Immigrants Living In US Rises To 11.7 Million « CBS DCStudy: Number Of Illegal Immigrants Living In US Rises To 11.7 Million « CBS DC

European immigrants made up the great and overwhelming majoirty of our immigrants up to 1965 when LBJ rammed through a radical change in our immigration policy that for the first time allowed third world immigrants to come here in huge numbers...not even to mention all the illegal immigrants from 3rd world nations that were allowed to slip in.........European immigrants brought with them a similr religious belief, were well educated and had job skills.... they did implement bits and pieces of their cultures into the whole of America rather than clinging to their former homes singular culture. They were proud to become Americans, they did not want to "go home" because America was their home. They taught their children to speak only English and learn American ways rather than their former ways. They dressed as Americans, ate American food, bought American products, learned and celebrated American holidays. And yes, they fought for their freedom that they found in America. Because American culture's foundation is freedom

Contrast the above scenario with the sort of immigrants this nation is now overwhelmed with.

This is not rocket science folks..............the problem being the White Working Class is not politially astute....they are watching sports as their class is being preyed on and systmatically destroyed.

Ignorant, unsubstantiated nonsense.

The country is not ‘overwhelmed’ by anyone, that’s merely your hateful perception.

It really is pitiful that all some on here can do is regurgitate the politically correct bullshite they have been indoctrinated with.

Now for some truth...............11.7 million illegal immigrants were residing in the United States as of March 2012, a figure that indicates an increase from the 11.5 million that lived in America in 2011.

Los Angeles once a Gleaming City in the Golden State is now one huge Barrio for the most part...........75 per cent mexican.


Nearly 20 million illegal immigrants in U.S., former Border Patrol agents say - Washington Times

We were gradually led down this path of see no evil in illegal immigration..................hear no evil about illegal immigration because there were not all that many and they were very useful working in the felds in California ....doing the work no Americans wanted to do...not even our traditional servant class...who found they could get by living on the dole...so many government programs designed for them by LBJ and his cronies made them lose their work ethic of they ever had one.

Unfortunately..........the few illegal immigrants turned into a avalanche of illegals and they have branched out and spread out all over the country....now doing all kinds of work...not just agricultural work anymore....they have taken jobs that once paid good...that the traditional white middle class performed....because employers naturally had rather pay someone minimum wage if that much than to pay good wages plus overtime and benefits.

I have noticed here where I live that although there is not that much construction work going on now that Obama is president...........that every single construction site I have noticed is using illegal mexican workers. At one time construction workers could make a very good living....but the mexicans have invaded other areas that were traditionally middle class jobs.

What is really outrageous is that labor unions support the illegals.

 

[Londoner]

Hitler claimed that the Tolerance & Multiculturalism of the Liberal Weimar Period had deeply compromised the Traditional German Identity, its borders, language, religion, and culture. He made the case that Jews (and other undesirables) had been over assimilated, and that they were slowly destroying traditional Germany, its founding principals and vital national spirit.

While I doubt this analogy applies to the OP's strategically manipulated nativism, I always wonder if people like him see the logical conclusion embedded in talk of Real Americans versus Anti-Americans. For instance, the OP might love this country for its Free Markets, the Vietnam War or the Jim Crow South whereas another person might value it for the New Deal or Jazz. In a free society each person should have a right to choose why they love their nation. But the OP's America mimics a kind of quasi-Fascism in that he seems to see only One America and One set of Real Americans, governed by One set of Christian values and populated by One skin color. There's a point at which a healthy concern for Borders, Language and Culture crosses a line and heads down the slope to The Final Solution.

(And the fact that Reagan passed the nation's largest Amnesty Bill is just kind of funny.)

(Should we talk to him about how Global Capitalism - which our private sector thrives on - prefers open borders so Capital has more efficient access to all the world's labor and resources? It's Win Win because business/investors get cheap labor and easier access to all the world's markets while talk radio gets a ready-made demon with which to agitate the easily fooled)

 

[Iceman]

Typical narrow mindedness! Judge an entire nation by actions of a few criminals? Are you forgetting the heydays of the KKK where lynching Blacks almost became a national past time? Some of the bodies were still clad in the uniforms of American soldiers.

A far more current and poignant example would be judging all of America by black crime rates. But I understand you couldn't bring yourself to do it.

As long as those crime rates are generated and compiled by people like you a question of credibility materializes.

So the FBI is in a racist conspiracy?

 

[Sawbriars]

Hitler claimed that the Tolerance & Multiculturalism of the Liberal Weimar Period had deeply compromised the Traditional German Identity, its borders, language, religion, and culture. He made the case that Jews (and other undesirables) had been over assimilated, and that they were slowly destroying traditional Germany, its founding principals and vital national spirit.

While I doubt this analogy applies to the OP's strategically manipulated nativism, I always wonder if people like him see the logical conclusion embedded in talk of Real Americans versus Anti-Americans. For instance, the OP might love this country for its Free Markets, the Vietnam War or the Jim Crow South whereas another person might value it for the New Deal or Jazz. In a free society each person should have a right to choose why they love their nation. But the OP's America mimics a kind of quasi-Fascism in that he seems to see only One America and One set of Real Americans, governed by One set of Christian values and populated by One skin color. There's a point at which a healthy concern for Borders, Language and Culture crosses a line and heads down the slope to The Final Solution.

(And the fact that Reagan passed the nation's largest Amnesty Bill is just kind of funny.)

(Should we talk to him about how Global Capitalism - which our private sector thrives on - prefers open borders so Capital has more efficient access to all the world's labor and resources? It's Win Win because business/investors get cheap labor and easier access to all the world's markets while talk radio gets a ready-made demon with which to agitate the easily fooled)

First of all I do not love America.....how naive of you to think so. Loving a country or anything or anybody is not dependent on being 'free' ---a slave can love as well as anyone.

Perhaps you would be on sounder ground if you talk about the vision I have of what America should be or could have been.

Incidentally...a good friend of mine...an Israeli thinks Hitler was correct in wanting to expunge the Jews. The problem was not Hitler's desire to purify Germany it was the way he chose to do it.

Multiculturalism never works...never has and never will. Look at how integration has failed in America.

Let me cut to the chase and thereby eliminate all speculation...........America was founded of by and for White People with a manifest destiny to conquer and possess this land from the East Coast to the West Coast.

The fact is that America lost sight of it's grand vision and thus forfeited the glorious destiny that could have been.

I really see no hope for America now....it has embarked on a greadual decline that will accelerate and much faster than most realize.