Clinton unveils plan for tighter gun control including executive action, expanded background checks

[RDD_1210]

We are suffering under a mass Appeal to Emotion Fallacy. We see dead kids in Sandy Hook and we can't think straight.

We have tunnel vision.

The problem is not guns. The problem is with us.

You can take away all the guns and we are still going to be attending mass funerals.


Black on black crime in Chicago doesn't happen because of the availability of guns. It happens because of endemic and multi-generational poverty.

Address the problem, not the goddam symptom.

You're ignoring the fact that guns ARE a problem. It's a tool that is very efficient at killing someone. You can kill someone with a knife or a variety of objects but nothing is as efficient as readily accessible as firearms. While guns don't kill people, they do make it much easier. Combine that with a violent society and you have a problem. The solution needs to come from both the access to guns angle as well as the people angle.

Answer the question.

Which of these "solutions" would have stopped the Oregon shooter?

You have been asked SEVERAL times now.

So what are your solutions? I've asked several times now.

 

[RDD_1210]

[crickets]

I answered a few posts up. So whats your solution?

Let me guess, you're another do-nothing "don't take my toys" patriotic American. Good for you.

 

[RDD_1210]

Cue tumbleweeds waiting for G5000 and his insightful ideas.

 

[Obiwan]

People who rely too heavily on the government to solve every problem think like this:

1. We must do something.

2. This (fill in the blank) is something.

3. We must do this.


And yet NOTHING suggested in this topic would have stopped the Oregon shooting. Or the shooting in South Carolina. Or Sandy Hook.

Doesn't mean there aren't solutions to cut down on overall gun violence.

But none of those solutions will cut down on overall violence.

Stop obsessing over guns.

None of those might, but every other first world country has figured out the issue better than we have. Why is that? Because we don't have enough guns?

So what's your solution?

The solution is to run background checks (already available) to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, druggies, and people with serious mental health issues. Also, enforcement of the existing laws against straw purchasers
..
I'm also for more "stop and frisk" to help get guns out of the hands of criminals...

And by all means, increase penalties for gun crime (including the illegal possession of a firearm) with no chance of probation or a reduced sentence...

On the other hand, the Second Amendment needs to be protected, so concealed-carry and open-carry permits should be made easily available to any citizens that legally qualify to own a firearm (which could help stop the mass shootings before they progress too far)...

Again, it's not a matter of "gun control"... It's a matter of "criminal control "...

 

[Auld Phart]

We are suffering under a mass Appeal to Emotion Fallacy. We see dead kids in Sandy Hook and we can't think straight.

We have tunnel vision.

The problem is not guns. The problem is with us.

You can take away all the guns and we are still going to be attending mass funerals.


Black on black crime in Chicago doesn't happen because of the availability of guns. It happens because of endemic and multi-generational poverty.

Address the problem, not the goddam symptom.

You're ignoring the fact that guns ARE a problem. It's a tool that is very efficient at killing someone. You can kill someone with a knife or a variety of objects but nothing is as efficient as readily accessible as firearms. While guns don't kill people, they do make it much easier. Combine that with a violent society and you have a problem. The solution needs to come from both the access to guns angle as well as the people angle.

You're ignoring the fact that guns ARE a problem.

300,000,000+ firearms in private hands in the US.

Approximately 30,000 death a year, (murder, suicide, accidents)

If GUNS were the problem, there would be far more deaths.

GUNS are NOT the problem

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Here they go again. calling MILLIONS of you citizens who is a member of the NRA, terrorist. this is what we have to put UP WITH from these bed wetter's. but no mention of PP being one, how weird eh?
this is how we LOSE our rights.

snip:
NY Daily News to State Dept: Designate the NRA a 'Terrorist Group'
"Its influence is more of an immediate threat to the lives of our citizens than foreign terrorists."
10.5.2015


Just two days after the horrific mass-shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon, the New York Daily News ran acolumn urging the U.S. State Department to officially characterize the National Rifle Association as a “nearly-state sponsored terrorist group” and arguing that "its influence is more of an immediate threat to the lives of our citizens than foreign terrorists."

Columnist Linda Stasi writes:

One terrorist group is responsible for more civilian deaths since December 2012 (the Sandy Hook massacre) than Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas and the Taliban. Yet it is the only nearly-state sponsored terrorist group that is not listed by the U.S. State Department as such.

It is the National Rifle Association and for their unending lobbying that’s kept a lid on gun control we now have 428 times more American deaths by gun than deaths by foreign terrorists.

As justification for this claim, Stasi explains:

Between 2012 and 2015, according to University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database, ISIS has murdered approximately 12,138 civilians, Boko Haram,10,092, the Taliban 9,427 and Hamas, 85.

In that time, Americans have murdered or spree killed via gun and assault rifle, 87,423 people in the United States.

In contrast, terrorism killed 28 Americans per year on both U.S. soil and abroad according to the Global Terrorism Database.

In conflating these figures, Stasi neglects the question of motive. ISIS was founded on the slaughter of infidels, whereas the NRA has supported laws regulating gun ownership and fights for the right of American citizens to arm themselves for their own protection. None of this matters a whit to Stasi who concludes:

all of it here:
NY Daily News to State Dept: Designate the NRA a 'Terrorist Group'

American citizens are dying needlessly and you refuse to discuss solutions. What would you call that type of behavior?

What's the Progressive Final Solution to American Gun Control?

 

[g5000]

[crickets]

I answered a few posts up.

No, you haven't.

Which of these "solutions" would have stopped the Oregon shooter?

You can't find the guts to give the unequivocal truth: NONE OF THE ABOVE.

So whats your solution?

Unlike you, I actually did answer this question several posts up.

ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, NOT THE GODDAM SYMPTOM.

 

[g5000]

Address endemic and multi-generational poverty and you will address not only gun homicides, but a great deal of all other homicides and violent crimes, plus property crimes.

Gun violence is a symptom, not the disease.

 

[RDD_1210]

Here they go again. calling MILLIONS of you citizens who is a member of the NRA, terrorist. this is what we have to put UP WITH from these bed wetter's. but no mention of PP being one, how weird eh?
this is how we LOSE our rights.

snip:
NY Daily News to State Dept: Designate the NRA a 'Terrorist Group'
"Its influence is more of an immediate threat to the lives of our citizens than foreign terrorists."
10.5.2015


Just two days after the horrific mass-shooting at Umpqua Community College in Oregon, the New York Daily News ran acolumn urging the U.S. State Department to officially characterize the National Rifle Association as a “nearly-state sponsored terrorist group” and arguing that "its influence is more of an immediate threat to the lives of our citizens than foreign terrorists."

Columnist Linda Stasi writes:

One terrorist group is responsible for more civilian deaths since December 2012 (the Sandy Hook massacre) than Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Hamas and the Taliban. Yet it is the only nearly-state sponsored terrorist group that is not listed by the U.S. State Department as such.

It is the National Rifle Association and for their unending lobbying that’s kept a lid on gun control we now have 428 times more American deaths by gun than deaths by foreign terrorists.

As justification for this claim, Stasi explains:

Between 2012 and 2015, according to University of Maryland’s Global Terrorism Database, ISIS has murdered approximately 12,138 civilians, Boko Haram,10,092, the Taliban 9,427 and Hamas, 85.

In that time, Americans have murdered or spree killed via gun and assault rifle, 87,423 people in the United States.

In contrast, terrorism killed 28 Americans per year on both U.S. soil and abroad according to the Global Terrorism Database.

In conflating these figures, Stasi neglects the question of motive. ISIS was founded on the slaughter of infidels, whereas the NRA has supported laws regulating gun ownership and fights for the right of American citizens to arm themselves for their own protection. None of this matters a whit to Stasi who concludes:

all of it here:
NY Daily News to State Dept: Designate the NRA a 'Terrorist Group'

American citizens are dying needlessly and you refuse to discuss solutions. What would you call that type of behavior?

What's the Progressive Final Solution to American Gun Control?

I give up. Tell me.

 

[RDD_1210]

[crickets]

I answered a few posts up.

No, you haven't.

Which of these "solutions" would have stopped the Oregon shooter?

You can't find the guts to give the unequivocal truth: NONE OF THE ABOVE.

So whats your solution?

Unlike you, I actually did answer this question several posts up.

ADDRESS THE PROBLEM, NOT THE GODDAM SYMPTOM.

I sure did answer. Maybe you should calm down a little bit and actually read what I wrote. Novel concept.

 

[RDD_1210]

Address endemic and multi-generational poverty and you will address not only gun homicides, but a great deal of all other homicides and violent crimes, plus property crimes.

Gun violence is a symptom, not the disease.

Ok, how do we address this poverty?

 

[BluesLegend]

The highest murder rates are in Democrat-controlled cities...

Maybe if we outlawed Democrats...

At least you have some sort of plan. Probably as feasible as "banning guns". Got anything more realistic?

Then try this...

Possess an illegal gun...10 years (automatic)
Use a gun in a crime... 20 years
Shoot someone during the commission of a crime... Life
Kill them...Death

And don't let them keep voting Democrat....

Now we're getting somewhere. Probably need something around stricter laws on those who sell the guns and penalties for selling guns illegally. Dry up the illegal supply would go a long way to cleaning up the wrong people having guns.

Here we go again some people thinking criminals and insane people will obey the law.

Are there no criminals or insane people in all the other 1st world countries? Because they seemed to have been able to figure out how to keep gun violence at lower levels. Unless that's what you're saying, there are no criminals or mentally unstable people in Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.., etc...etc...

^^^ deflection. Stop deflecting with lies and explain why we need more gun control laws when criminals and crazy people already don't obey existing laws. I say you can't.

Optionally you can admit that the true goal of gun control assholes is to strip law abiding citizens of their right to keep and bare arms. Its quite disgusting how they keep exploiting school shootings to further this agenda. The number of shootings in liberal inner cities each week dwarfs the number of school shootings in the last few years, naturally libs don't want to discuss that.

 

[Alystyr]

Address endemic and multi-generational poverty and you will address not only gun homicides, but a great deal of all other homicides and violent crimes, plus property crimes.

That definitely would cover a fair part of the problem.
Another problem that seriously needs to be addressed is impulse control. A lack of this important ability is, in my opinion, what forms the basis of most criminal acts. Impulse control is what prevents a rational person from stealing something just because they want it, raping someone that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or blowing away a theater full of innocents. I would say that nearly everyone has had the occasional thought about doing something that could be considered as criminal, but the big difference between criminals and everyone else is that normal people can push those thoughts aside and continue to live a socially acceptable lifestyle while criminals act on their urges regardless of what laws are in place.

 

[Kosh]

The only people that the far left wants to have the guns is the criminals..

No amount of gun control or laws will stop one who wants to kill with guns..

 

[RDD_1210]

At least you have some sort of plan. Probably as feasible as "banning guns". Got anything more realistic?

Then try this...

Possess an illegal gun...10 years (automatic)
Use a gun in a crime... 20 years
Shoot someone during the commission of a crime... Life
Kill them...Death

And don't let them keep voting Democrat....

Now we're getting somewhere. Probably need something around stricter laws on those who sell the guns and penalties for selling guns illegally. Dry up the illegal supply would go a long way to cleaning up the wrong people having guns.

Here we go again some people thinking criminals and insane people will obey the law.

Are there no criminals or insane people in all the other 1st world countries? Because they seemed to have been able to figure out how to keep gun violence at lower levels. Unless that's what you're saying, there are no criminals or mentally unstable people in Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.., etc...etc...

^^^ deflection. Stop deflecting with lies and explain why we need more gun control laws when criminals and crazy people already don't obey existing laws. I say you can't.

Optionally you can admit that the true goal of gun control assholes is to strip law abiding citizens of their right to keep and bare arms. Its quite disgusting how they keep exploiting school shootings to further this agenda. The number of shootings in liberal inner cities each week dwarfs the number of school shootings in the last few years, naturally libs don't want to discuss that.

Zzzzzzzzzz, I could have typed literally anything and you would have made the same response. Did you even read what I wrote? I know it doesn't matter because you have to say what you have to say, regardless if it makes sense.

Good sheep.

 

[RDD_1210]

The only people that the far left wants to have the guns is the criminals..

No amount of gun control or laws will stop one who wants to kill with guns..

Well that is true. Solid detective work.

 

[BluesLegend]

Then try this...

Possess an illegal gun...10 years (automatic)
Use a gun in a crime... 20 years
Shoot someone during the commission of a crime... Life
Kill them...Death

And don't let them keep voting Democrat....

Now we're getting somewhere. Probably need something around stricter laws on those who sell the guns and penalties for selling guns illegally. Dry up the illegal supply would go a long way to cleaning up the wrong people having guns.

Here we go again some people thinking criminals and insane people will obey the law.

Are there no criminals or insane people in all the other 1st world countries? Because they seemed to have been able to figure out how to keep gun violence at lower levels. Unless that's what you're saying, there are no criminals or mentally unstable people in Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.., etc...etc...

^^^ deflection. Stop deflecting with lies and explain why we need more gun control laws when criminals and crazy people already don't obey existing laws. I say you can't.

Optionally you can admit that the true goal of gun control assholes is to strip law abiding citizens of their right to keep and bare arms. Its quite disgusting how they keep exploiting school shootings to further this agenda. The number of shootings in liberal inner cities each week dwarfs the number of school shootings in the last few years, naturally libs don't want to discuss that.

Zzzzzzzzzz, I could have typed literally anything and you would have made the same response. Did you even read what I wrote? I know it doesn't matter because you have to say what you have to say, regardless if it makes sense.

Good sheep.

You have nothing to back up your stupid claims which is likely why you posted them. But since you insist on being bitch slapped go check into Canada's problem with violent crime numskull because its worse than in the US especially rape.

 

[RDD_1210]

Now we're getting somewhere. Probably need something around stricter laws on those who sell the guns and penalties for selling guns illegally. Dry up the illegal supply would go a long way to cleaning up the wrong people having guns.

Here we go again some people thinking criminals and insane people will obey the law.

Are there no criminals or insane people in all the other 1st world countries? Because they seemed to have been able to figure out how to keep gun violence at lower levels. Unless that's what you're saying, there are no criminals or mentally unstable people in Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.., etc...etc...

^^^ deflection. Stop deflecting with lies and explain why we need more gun control laws when criminals and crazy people already don't obey existing laws. I say you can't.

Optionally you can admit that the true goal of gun control assholes is to strip law abiding citizens of their right to keep and bare arms. Its quite disgusting how they keep exploiting school shootings to further this agenda. The number of shootings in liberal inner cities each week dwarfs the number of school shootings in the last few years, naturally libs don't want to discuss that.

Zzzzzzzzzz, I could have typed literally anything and you would have made the same response. Did you even read what I wrote? I know it doesn't matter because you have to say what you have to say, regardless if it makes sense.

Good sheep.

You have nothing to back up your stupid claims which is likely why you posted them. But since you insist on being bitch slapped go check into Canada's problem with violent crime numskull because its worse than in the US especially rape.

Google anything about worldwide guns statistics and there is plenty to back up my claims. There are literally countless sites that you could read that support what I said. You'd have to intentionally ignore the data to be able to say I am making this up.

 

[BluesLegend]

Here we go again some people thinking criminals and insane people will obey the law.

Are there no criminals or insane people in all the other 1st world countries? Because they seemed to have been able to figure out how to keep gun violence at lower levels. Unless that's what you're saying, there are no criminals or mentally unstable people in Australia, Canada, UK, Germany, etc.., etc...etc...

^^^ deflection. Stop deflecting with lies and explain why we need more gun control laws when criminals and crazy people already don't obey existing laws. I say you can't.

Optionally you can admit that the true goal of gun control assholes is to strip law abiding citizens of their right to keep and bare arms. Its quite disgusting how they keep exploiting school shootings to further this agenda. The number of shootings in liberal inner cities each week dwarfs the number of school shootings in the last few years, naturally libs don't want to discuss that.

Zzzzzzzzzz, I could have typed literally anything and you would have made the same response. Did you even read what I wrote? I know it doesn't matter because you have to say what you have to say, regardless if it makes sense.

Good sheep.

You have nothing to back up your stupid claims which is likely why you posted them. But since you insist on being bitch slapped go check into Canada's problem with violent crime numskull because its worse than in the US especially rape.

Google anything about worldwide guns statistics and there is plenty to back up my claims. There are literally countless sites that you could read that support what I said. You'd have to intentionally ignore the data to be able to say I am making this up.

I just gave you a statistic, Canada more rape more murders per 100,000 people than the USA eat it!

 

[deltex1]

Looks the gun-grabbers are revving up...
Clinton unveils plan for tighter gun control including executive action, expanded background checks
Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton on Monday proposed tighter gun-control measures, including expanded background checks, and suggested that if elected she would use executive powers to achieve her goals.


She called for expanded background checks for firearms sales online and at gun shows. Clinton also called for closing loopholes in federal laws that allow for gun-sale transactions to be completed if the buyer’s background check is not finished within three days.

Clinton will unveil more details about her plans Monday during a campaign swing through New Hampshire.

Her campaign says her proposals also include a repeal of legislation shielding gun manufacturers, distributors and dealers from most liability suits, even in the case of mass shootings like the one that killed nine students and teachers at an Oregon community college on Thursday.

Better she had tightened up control of Bubba's dick.