CNN/ORC Poll: Bush surges to 2016 GOP frontrunner

[kaz]

Hillary Clinton called herself a "fiscal conservative." I reject your definition of self described. Jake says he's a Republican. Self described is meaningless.

Doesn't matter what you accept and it's not MY definition (as I think you are probably aware - not sure why you tried to attribute it to me).

The numbers don't lie. You can continue to lose where you live on fantasy island - or you can make the journey to the real world where you may be more successful.

You think that anyone who thinks government shouldn't make our choices for us lives on fantasy island? I wouldn't be lecturing anyone on the "real world." In the real world, government are power hungry and unaccountable and make crappy choices.

Why aren't you addressing the numbers?

I did, I said they are irrelevant.

Why is data irrelevant?

Strawman

 

[kaz]

There are some on the far right who can't accept it, but you and I have both provided all the data. The GOP has clearly maxed out on what they can get from the far right. Trying to appease this group further makes absolutely NO sense and if they demand it, they will cost themselves the White House. In at least 32 years, no GOP candidate has won the White House without getting at least 45% of the moderate vote.

Exactly.

Here's how many conservatives voted for the Republican candidate (in millions), and the percent of the electorate who said they were conservative.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%
1976 17.7mm, 31%

So not only did Romney win more conservative votes than any other candidate in history, conservatives made up more of the electorate in at least the last 10 elections. So the idea that Romney and McCain lost because conservatives stayed home is pure fiction.

The only election where this seems to be the case was in 1992 when Bush only won 64% of conservatives, the lowest in at least the last 10 elections.

Hillary Clinton says she is a fiscal conservative.

What says she isn't?

LOL, she's a tea partier, big guy. You people are funny.

Teabaggers aren't fiscal conservatives, they are anarchists willing to expose the nation to enormous damage based on half-baked ideas.

Anarchists? What an idiot you are. None of the tea baggers are anarchists. You're just make it up.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yep , Republicans are so stupid that they let the media select their candidate for them.

The Media is the ones who picked Obama.

No, Americans picked Obama.

No, the media picked him and then Americans went along with the hype.

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

 

[peach174]

There are some on the far right who can't accept it, but you and I have both provided all the data. The GOP has clearly maxed out on what they can get from the far right. Trying to appease this group further makes absolutely NO sense and if they demand it, they will cost themselves the White House. In at least 32 years, no GOP candidate has won the White House without getting at least 45% of the moderate vote.

Exactly.

Here's how many conservatives voted for the Republican candidate (in millions), and the percent of the electorate who said they were conservative.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%
1976 17.7mm, 31%

So not only did Romney win more conservative votes than any other candidate in history, conservatives made up more of the electorate in at least the last 10 elections. So the idea that Romney and McCain lost because conservatives stayed home is pure fiction.

The only election where this seems to be the case was in 1992 when Bush only won 64% of conservatives, the lowest in at least the last 10 elections.

Great points. But in '92 conservatives were still 30% of the electorate - just about 3 points behind normal. So I don't think they stayed home in droves or anything. But Perot siphoned off about 18% of them and Clinton got 18% of the conservative vote too.

Yup.

I do think conservatives can make a very good argument that the Bush tax increases cost Bush the election as enough of them stayed home or switched to Perot. But otherwise, the conservatives-staying-home-caused-them-to-lose-the-election is mythology.

Perot pulled conservative votes away from Bush and allowed little known Clinton to win

I know that makes sense, but I can't get over the fact that Clinton pulled as many conservatives (18%) as Perot did.

That's because 18% did not want that nut case Perot in the WH and they were pissed at Bush who said read my lips no new taxes and then raised them.

 

[kaz]

What does that even mean, cut taxes and don't care who gets hurt?

S P Official U.S. Downgrade Was Due in Part to Debt-Ceiling Brawl - WSJ

U.S. Debt Ceiling: Costs and Consequences

GOP Causes S P Downgrade but Republican Candidates Blame Obama The Nation

Ah, liberals wanting to spend other people's money get hurt. Gotcha.

 

[Synthaholic]

Doesn't matter what you accept and it's not MY definition (as I think you are probably aware - not sure why you tried to attribute it to me).

The numbers don't lie. You can continue to lose where you live on fantasy island - or you can make the journey to the real world where you may be more successful.

You think that anyone who thinks government shouldn't make our choices for us lives on fantasy island? I wouldn't be lecturing anyone on the "real world." In the real world, government are power hungry and unaccountable and make crappy choices.

Why aren't you addressing the numbers?

I did, I said they are irrelevant.

Why is data irrelevant?

Mitt got a million more votes than McCain. Obama got about 5 million less votes in 12 than in 08. Imo, overall it's possible that a candidate who runs on cutting poverty aid while supporting Soc Sec and Medicare can improve on Mitt's showing. The question for the dems is whether Hill is healthy and whether she can sustain Obama's vote totals.

What's all this "if Hillary is healthy" nonsense?

Is this a meme that the wingnuts are trying to get to take off?

 

[Synthaholic]

Stop babbling. Your take on the history of it is perverted and senseless.

The cons won twice, because they had the right and took the center once and SCOTUS the other time.

We have no candidate other than Bush who can take the center. None.

Jeb being a Bush is as much of a weakness for getting the center as Romney's negative caricatures. If anything I'd say Romney has the edge on Bush when it comes to center appeal, it's his Mormonism that he really hurts his appeal to most (not all) Christian conservatives, which is something Jeb doesn't have to deal with when appealing to that crowd

I thought it was going to sink Mittens, since it's written into the Southern Baptist creed/bylaws that Mormonism is a cult.

But no. Apparently their Party comes before their Christianity. Southern Baptists turned out huge in 2012.

So Republicans are Christian bigots who want their God in government, but no wait, they are hypocrites because they voted for the candidate they like better. You're flip flopping more than Romney.

I didn't say "Republicans". I said Southern Baptists were hypocrites - not bigots - for voting for Romney when their covenants specifically call Mormonism a cult.

Now, if you want to argue that they are bigots for feeling that way about Mormonism, that's another topic. I think they are dead on. But I believe Southern Baptists belong to a cult, also.

When you flip flop to a single position you'll stand behind let me know.

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem.

But you can go back and point out where I am inconsistent, if you've got the stones.

 

[kaz]

"Rest assured big guy, they don't just want to cut my tax bill, they want to cut your government check as well."

Personally, I'll believe that when I see it. I have to see some evidence that something is true before I swallow it. I'm apparently kinda "different" that way.

It's what the tea party is about, lower taxes, lower spending. Think about the name, tea party...

Tea Tards are willing to destroy our credit rating, gridlock Congress, shutdown government and default on our debt.......all in their attempt to slash taxes
They will destroy any program that does not benefit them

Your predictable reaction to the idea of your dependency check being cut

 

[Synthaholic]

Viable means a chance to win

Ted Cruz, Jeff Sessions, Trey Gowdy, Mike Lee, Dr Carson, Alan West have no chance

Reagan had no chance either, remember?

Ted Kennedy had a lot to do with Reagan's win.

And?

And what? It's indisputable.

"And?" doesn't mean I disagree with it, it means there is no point to it. I mean duh.

*sigh* You stated that "Reagan had no chance, remember?" He may have indeed had no chance had Kennedy not split the Democrats in two for his own selfish political gain.

 

[Synthaholic]

Doesn't matter what you accept and it's not MY definition (as I think you are probably aware - not sure why you tried to attribute it to me).

The numbers don't lie. You can continue to lose where you live on fantasy island - or you can make the journey to the real world where you may be more successful.

You think that anyone who thinks government shouldn't make our choices for us lives on fantasy island? I wouldn't be lecturing anyone on the "real world." In the real world, government are power hungry and unaccountable and make crappy choices.

Why aren't you addressing the numbers?

I did, I said they are irrelevant.

Why is data irrelevant?

Strawman

 

[Synthaholic]

Exactly.

Here's how many conservatives voted for the Republican candidate (in millions), and the percent of the electorate who said they were conservative.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%
1976 17.7mm, 31%

So not only did Romney win more conservative votes than any other candidate in history, conservatives made up more of the electorate in at least the last 10 elections. So the idea that Romney and McCain lost because conservatives stayed home is pure fiction.

The only election where this seems to be the case was in 1992 when Bush only won 64% of conservatives, the lowest in at least the last 10 elections.

Hillary Clinton says she is a fiscal conservative.

What says she isn't?

LOL, she's a tea partier, big guy. You people are funny.

Teabaggers aren't fiscal conservatives, they are anarchists willing to expose the nation to enormous damage based on half-baked ideas.

Anarchists? What an idiot you are. None of the tea baggers are anarchists. You're just make it up.

People who want to default on America's debts are anarchists.

Sorry to break it to you.

 

[Synthaholic]

Exactly.

Here's how many conservatives voted for the Republican candidate (in millions), and the percent of the electorate who said they were conservative.

2012 37mm, 35%
2008 34.8mm, 34%
2004 34.9mm, 34%
2000 24.8mm, 29%
1996 23.6mm, 34%
1992 20mm, 30%
1988 24.5mm, 33%
1984 25.1mm, 33%
1980 17.7mm, 28%
1976 17.7mm, 31%

So not only did Romney win more conservative votes than any other candidate in history, conservatives made up more of the electorate in at least the last 10 elections. So the idea that Romney and McCain lost because conservatives stayed home is pure fiction.

The only election where this seems to be the case was in 1992 when Bush only won 64% of conservatives, the lowest in at least the last 10 elections.

Great points. But in '92 conservatives were still 30% of the electorate - just about 3 points behind normal. So I don't think they stayed home in droves or anything. But Perot siphoned off about 18% of them and Clinton got 18% of the conservative vote too.

Yup.

I do think conservatives can make a very good argument that the Bush tax increases cost Bush the election as enough of them stayed home or switched to Perot. But otherwise, the conservatives-staying-home-caused-them-to-lose-the-election is mythology.

Perot pulled conservative votes away from Bush and allowed little known Clinton to win

I know that makes sense, but I can't get over the fact that Clinton pulled as many conservatives (18%) as Perot did.

That's because 18% did not want that nut case Perot in the WH and they were pissed at Bush who said read my lips no new taxes and then raised them.

I did!

I distinctly remember telling people that I believed that America was strong enough to survive 4 years of Perot, and that his election could really shake things up in Washington.

 

[Synthaholic]

What does that even mean, cut taxes and don't care who gets hurt?

S P Official U.S. Downgrade Was Due in Part to Debt-Ceiling Brawl - WSJ

U.S. Debt Ceiling: Costs and Consequences

GOP Causes S P Downgrade but Republican Candidates Blame Obama The Nation

Ah, liberals wanting to spend other people's money get hurt. Gotcha.

You are even more uninformed than I thought. The debt ceiling included defense spending and the border control, and the veterans services, and everything else that government spends taxpayer money on.

 

[peach174]

The Media is the ones who picked Obama.

No, Americans picked Obama.

No, the media picked him and then Americans went along with the hype.

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

How quickly they forget.
I guess you did not see all of the videos and that the numbers just did not add up.
Hillary Clinton Says Barack Obama Perpetrated 8220 Systematic Voter Suppression Intimidation and Harassment 8221 The Husaria

There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters.Sincerely, Lyn Utrecht
Counsel Hillary Clinton for President

 

[Synthaholic]

No, Americans picked Obama.

No, the media picked him and then Americans went along with the hype.

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

How quickly they forget.
I guess you did not see all of the videos and that the numbers just did not add up.
Hillary Clinton Says Barack Obama Perpetrated 8220 Systematic Voter Suppression Intimidation and Harassment 8221 The Husaria

There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters.Sincerely, Lyn Utrecht
Counsel Hillary Clinton for President

A lawyer wrote a letter making accusations without evidence?

Where is the follow-up? Seems strange that this only appears on an obscure blog.

 

[peach174]

No, the media picked him and then Americans went along with the hype.

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

How quickly they forget.
I guess you did not see all of the videos and that the numbers just did not add up.
Hillary Clinton Says Barack Obama Perpetrated 8220 Systematic Voter Suppression Intimidation and Harassment 8221 The Husaria

There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters.Sincerely, Lyn Utrecht
Counsel Hillary Clinton for President

A lawyer wrote a letter making accusations without evidence?

Where is the follow-up? Seems strange that this only appears on an obscure blog.

Oh brother
It was all over the news and web in Nov. and Dec, of 2008.

 

[Synthaholic]

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

How quickly they forget.
I guess you did not see all of the videos and that the numbers just did not add up.
Hillary Clinton Says Barack Obama Perpetrated 8220 Systematic Voter Suppression Intimidation and Harassment 8221 The Husaria

There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters.Sincerely, Lyn Utrecht
Counsel Hillary Clinton for President

A lawyer wrote a letter making accusations without evidence?

Where is the follow-up? Seems strange that this only appears on an obscure blog.

Oh brother
It was all over the news and web in Nov. and Dec, of 2008.

Yet you picked an obscure blog instead of a major newspaper?

 

[S.J.]

Obviously, they are the ones you fear the most. If they weren't, you would be urging us to vote for them instead of dismiss them.

Vote for them! I'm urging! Get Poor Sarah in there, too! And Bachmann! Maybe you can bring back Pat Robertson, Gary Bauer, Pat Buchanan, and David Duke, too!

No, I think you're afraid of Cruz, Sessions, Gowdy, Lee, Carson, and West. Your mention of Palin and the others is your attempt at distraction. You fear the ones you mentioned first, especially Cruz.

curz has dual citizenship with Canada.

I don't know about you but most Americans want a president who has citizenship to one nation. America.

Speaking for myself, cruz isn't even an American. I don't consider a man who was born in Canada and has citizenship to Canada an American citizen with the ability to be our president.

On top of that he's stupid and has a god complex. If you think that anyone is afraid of cruz being president I've got a wonderful bridge to sell you right in the middle of the Mojave Desert.

But you consider a communist, born in Kenya, an American citizen with the ability to be our president. There goes your credibility.

You actually believe that?

Wow you birthers are a special kind of stupid.

 

[bendog]

Tell that to all those who voted for Hillary. I myself voted for Biden.

Yeah and there was a whole bunch of evidence of voter suppression for Hillary but that was ignored.

Stop making shit up.

How quickly they forget.
I guess you did not see all of the videos and that the numbers just did not add up.
Hillary Clinton Says Barack Obama Perpetrated 8220 Systematic Voter Suppression Intimidation and Harassment 8221 The Husaria

There is no place in the American electoral process for the types of voter suppression, intimidation and harassment systematically engaged in by the Obama campaign, its allies and supporters.Sincerely, Lyn Utrecht
Counsel Hillary Clinton for President

A lawyer wrote a letter making accusations without evidence?

Where is the follow-up? Seems strange that this only appears on an obscure blog.

Oh brother
It was all over the news and web in Nov. 2008.

The TP is against spending, but its only against spending on programs that benefit others. That said, I have some common ground with them on welfare that is not conditioned on getting a job and getting off welfare. And, I'm no fan of Obamacare, but basically because I believe it should have been more progressively funded, and aimed at subsidies to buy private insurance voluntarily.

 

[kaz]

Reagan had no chance either, remember?

Ted Kennedy had a lot to do with Reagan's win.

And?

And what? It's indisputable.

"And?" doesn't mean I disagree with it, it means there is no point to it. I mean duh.

*sigh* You stated that "Reagan had no chance, remember?" He may have indeed had no chance had Kennedy not split the Democrats in two for his own selfish political gain.

So you're arguing that Reagan, who won, did actually have no chance. Gotcha