Coal country begs Obama for mercy as hundreds of coal plants ready for closing

[bripat9643]

I do feel sorry for people living in the coal and steel-producing areas.

It must be devastating to grow up in a region with so many jobs and much promise, and see those mills and mines close a generation later.

But does anyone remember the Miner's Strike in England under Thatcher?

She saw the writing on the wall for coal more than 30 years ago - and she was the High Priestess of Conservatism.

The real sadness here is that jobs that should have gone to Americans developing new technologies are instead going to Germany, Korea and the UK, because those countries are more innovative and more future oriented. If anyone is to blame for this, it is the Luddites who still think coal is the best way to produce elecricity.

ROFL! Green Energy is bankrupting Germany and every other country that spent heavily on it. Many Germans can't pay their power bills because subsidies to wind and solar have doubled the price of electricity. Over 800,000 have had their power shut off.

Yeah, that sure seems like a smart policy for the economy.

Saigon doesn't think about that, he relies on their Government not their economy...also how big is his country compared to ours?
but he knows what's best for us

Finland has abundant hydro-power. Those who are the most fanatical about "green energy" don't have to suffer under it.

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

Did you know Germany has a CONSERVATIVE government?

No, of course you didn't.

So how does this fit in with your paranoid fantasies of global socialist domination?

btw. Finland has very, very little hydro energy - it's just too flat here.

 

[Saigon]

Saigon doesn't think about that, he relies on their Government not their economy...also how big is his country compared to ours?
but he knows what's best for us

No, I'm talking about private companies creating jobs and exports.

I can list a dozen very successful private energy companies here that aren't reliant on the subsidies coal has always relied on.

The kind of thing the US used to do before Luddites told you to stop competing.

 

[Stephanie]

Saigon doesn't think about that, he relies on their Government not their economy...also how big is his country compared to ours?
but he knows what's best for us

No, I'm talking about private companies creating jobs and exports.

I can list a dozen very successful private energy companies here that aren't reliant on the subsidies coal has always relied on.

The kind of thing the US used to do before Luddites told you to stop competing.

yeah well, we have a interfering government here that is starting to hurt us in my opinion..

Obama took billions of our money and gave it to his friends in private green energy and most of them went bankrupt..why do you suppose that is?
and until we have these companies we can rely on COAL is still the cheapest

 

[bripat9643]

Saigon doesn't think about that, he relies on their Government not their economy...also how big is his country compared to ours?
but he knows what's best for us

No, I'm talking about private companies creating jobs and exports.

I can list a dozen very successful private energy companies here that aren't reliant on the subsidies coal has always relied on.

The kind of thing the US used to do before Luddites told you to stop competing.

Thousands of "green energy" companies in Germany are going bankrupt. You see, none of that green energy horse manure is feasible for people to buy without government subsidies. The minute the subsidies stop, the market for green energy evaporates. Germany has reached the point where it can no longer afford this boondoggle.

And you think the USA should follow Germany down this rat hole?

 

[Saigon]

Obama took billions of our money and gave it to his friends in private green energy and most of them went bankrupt..why do you suppose that is?

Because the US hit the market 5 - 10 years too late.

By 2010 you were years behind countries like Germany, Korea, Japan and China that saw the potential of solar coming years ago. They now have those jobs.

This was Luddites cost the US.

And it is about to happen again and again and again - the US is again a decade behind in Tidal, in Solar Thermal and Breeder Reactors. What is a pipe dream in the US is a daily reality in countries that really think about where the market is going.

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

You will have to follow Germany sooner or later, because they know what they are doing. I'll remind you again - they have a CONSERVATIVE government, and they are world leaders in this.

Yes, the transition to renewables has been expensive, but they have almost finished the transition process, and the US hasn't even started.

It's only a question of how far behind you will be when you realise that.

Although BriPat is right that a couple of solar panelmanufcaturers have gone under recently because of China dumping panels on the EU market, the overall picture is amazingly positive -

- The share of electricity produced from renewable energy in Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to about 25 percent in the first half of 2012. In 2011 20.5% (123.5 TWh) of Germany's electricity supply (603 TWH) was produced from renewable energy sources, more than the 2010 contribution of gas-fired power plants.

- Every third solar panel and every second wind rotor is made in Germany, and German turbines and generators used in hydro energy generation are among the most popular worldwide. In 2010, investments totaling 26 billion euros were made in Germany’s renewable energies sector.

- According to official figures, some 370,000 people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector in 2010, especially in small and medium sized companies. This is an increase of around 8 percent compared to 2009 (around 339,500 jobs), and well over twice the number of jobs in 2004 (160,500). About two-thirds of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act[6][7] Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany

 

[Stephanie]

BriPat -

You will have to follow Germany sooner or later, because they know what they are doing. I'll remind you again - they have a CONSERVATIVE government, and they are world leaders in this.

Yes, the transition to renewables has been expensive, but they have almost finished the transition process, and the US hasn't even started.

It's only a question of how far behind you will be when you realise that.

why do we when we have abundance of own natural resources?

and you people pay how much in TAXES to your government for all these renewables?

and the thing about this government under Obama doing all this NOW, is our economy is down in the dumps and we can't AFFORD it...But he DOESN'T CARE

 

[Saigon]

Stepanie -

The taxes and subsidies countries like Germany are using are to pay for the transition from coal and nuclear to wind, solar etc. I don't agree with their decision to quit nuclear, but that's what they are doing. Everyone knew that transition would be expensive, but they are now most of the way through it, and the stats above tell the story. Think of those 370,000 jobs, and massive exports - that's the key to it.

The wholesale price of wind energy in Germany has dropped by 30% in the past decade. That tells you that the subsidies have worked.

why do we when we have abundance of own natural resources?

The gas the US has maybe best used for transport. That means less imports from Saudi Arabia; it means cleaner cars and less costs for consumers at the pump.

As for coal...I'd leave it in the ground for now. It might become a more viable fuel 20 years from now.

 

[Stephanie]

Stepanie -

The taxes and subsidies countries like Germany are using are to pay for the transition from coal and nuclear to wind, solar etc. I don't agree with their decision to quit nuclear, but that's what they are doing. Everyone knew that transition would be expensive, but they are now most of the way through it, and the stats above tell the story. Think of those 370,000 jobs, and massive exports - that's the key to it.

The wholesale price of wind energy in Germany has dropped by 30% in the past decade. That tells you that the subsidies have worked.

why do we when we have abundance of own natural resources?

The gas the US has maybe best used for transport. That means less imports from Saudi Arabia; it means cleaner cars and less costs for consumers at the pump.

nice chat and informative...don't know if I agree this is what we need at this time, but the future when we can afford it of course...we are all interested in cleaner energy but not like this what is happening with these coal companies today

 

[bripat9643]

Obama took billions of our money and gave it to his friends in private green energy and most of them went bankrupt..why do you suppose that is?

Because the US hit the market 5 - 10 years too late.

By 2010 you were years behind countries like Germany, Korea, Japan and China that saw the potential of solar coming years ago. They now have those jobs.

This was Luddites cost the US.

What Germany has is 5000 bankrupt green energy firms and electricity that costs twice as much as it does here. 800,000 German families had their power turned off because they couldn't pay their utility bills.

Yeah, I'm and so disappointed to learn we missed out on that.

And it is about to happen again and again and again - the US is again a decade behind in Tidal, in Solar Thermal and Breeder Reactors. What is a pipe dream in the US is a daily reality in countries that really think about where the market is going.

America is behind in nuclear technology precisely because of eco-numskulls like you who have used the courts to put the kibosh on any attempt to build a nuclear power plant in this country. Germany and the other numskull countries can have Tidal and Solar Thermal. I'll take cheap electric power over eco-boondoggles any day of the week.

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

If you understood it, then yes - you would be disappointed.

You might start by asking yourself what it costs the US to have people unemployed for a start. While Germany has created 370,000 jobs.

I wont bother correcting the numerous errors of facts in your comments - I'm sure you know they're wrong. (Electricity is expensive in Germany right now - but then they don't have the oil or gas reserves that the US has, and will soon be nuclear-free of their own will.)

I'll take cheap electric power over eco-boondoggles any day of the week.

Then I suggest you move to Germany to get it. Because your electricity prices are set to rise and rise again - while theirs are set to fall and fall again as they leave the transition period and you go into it.


btw. I'm pro-Nuclear, genius.

 

[Stephanie]

CALL your Representatives people....tell them ENOUGH...Lets start standing up for the people in this country

[ame=http://youtu.be/A80rwNkLXFM]Obama says he will bankrupt the Coal Industry - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bripat9643]

BriPat -

You will have to follow Germany sooner or later, because they know what they are doing. I'll remind you again - they have a CONSERVATIVE government, and they are world leaders in this.

Horse manure. We can continue using fossil fuels for another 100 years, minimum. Nuclear is the best alternative to fossil fuels for producing electricity, but eco-numskulls - -precisely the ones who complain about fossil fuels - in this country have stymied all efforts in that direction.

Yes, the transition to renewables has been expensive, but they have almost finished the transition process, and the US hasn't even started.

It's only a question of how far behind you will be when you realise that.

That's like saying the "the transition process" to having no legs or arms is painful, but you'll feel better after they have been amputated. Then end state of your "transition process" isn't a desirable place to be.

Although BriPat is right that a couple of solar panelmanufcaturers have gone under recently because of China dumping panels on the EU market, the overall picture is amazingly positive -

- The share of electricity produced from renewable energy in Germany has increased from 6.3 percent of the national total in 2000 to about 25 percent in the first half of -2012. In 2011 20.5% (123.5 TWh) of Germany's electricity supply (603 TWH) was produced from renewable energy sources, more than the 2010 contribution of gas-fired power plants.

- Every third solar panel and every second wind rotor is made in Germany, and German turbines and generators used in hydro energy generation are among the most popular worldwide. In 2010, investments totaling 26 billion euros were made in Germany’s renewable energies sector.

- According to official figures, some 370,000 people in Germany were employed in the renewable energy sector in 2010, especially in small and medium sized companies. This is an increase of around 8 percent compared to 2009 (around 339,500 jobs), and well over twice the number of jobs in 2004 (160,500). About two-thirds of these jobs are attributed to the Renewable Energy Sources Act[6][7] Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy.

Renewable energy in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The price of moral-vanity: A catalogue of Green economic disaster unfolds across Europe « JoNova

• German’s electricity bills have doubled since 2000. (Germans pay about 40c a KWH.)
• Up to 800,000 Germans have had their power cut off because they couldn’t pay their bills.
• Germany’s renewable energy levy rose from €14bn to €20bn in one year as wind and solar expanded. German households will pay a renewables surcharge of €7.2bn this year alone.
• Germany has more than half the worlds solar panels. They generated 40% of Germany’s peak electricity demand on June 6, but practically 0% during the darkest weeks of winter.
• Seimens closed it’s entire solar division, losing about €1bn. Bosch is getting out too, it has lost about €2.4bn.
• Solar investors have lost almost about €25bn in the past year. More than 5,000 companies associated with solar have closed since 2010.
• Germany has phased out nuclear, but is adding 20 coal fired stations. Gas power can’t compete with cheap coal or subsidized renewables and 20% of gas power plants are facing shutdown.
• Despite the river of money paid to renewables, emissions have risen in Germany for the last two years.

Note that for several weeks in the winter all the solar panels in German contributed 0% of its electric power generation. That means every solar panel in Germany requires 100% backup from a coal fired power plant. The idea that solar can ever be as cheap as coal is ludicrous when you consider the fact that every solar panel has to include the cost of a coal fired power plant.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Enviros are agents of the oil companies. Coal competes with oil. Follow the money, which will also make you realize that treehuggers are primarily the children of the rich, all of whom make money off oil price-gouging.

 

[RoadVirus]

Coal country begs Obama for mercy as hundreds of coal plants ready for closing

Coal industry lobbyists and politicians have been urging the Obama administration to ease up on its regulatory agenda and craft carbon dioxide emission rules that would allow the coal industry to survive.

All the while, reports indicate that hundreds of coal plants are slated to be shut down in the coming years.

The unveiling of President Obama’s plan to cut carbon dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants earlier this summer stoked the fears of coal supporters who have already been hit hard by stricter environmental regulations.

However, the industry is not going down without a fight.

Read more: Coal country begs Obama for mercy | The Daily Caller

They voted the shitstain back in, so they should take the consequences.

 

[PrometheusBound]

I do feel sorry for people living in the coal and steel-producing areas.

It must be devastating to grow up in a region with so many jobs and much promise, and see those mills and mines close a generation later.

But does anyone remember the Miner's Strike in England under Thatcher?

She saw the writing on the wall for coal more than 30 years ago - and she was the High Priestess of Conservatism.

The real sadness here is that jobs that should have gone to Americans developing new technologies are instead going to Germany, Korea and the UK, because those countries are more innovative and more future oriented. If anyone is to blame for this, it is the Luddites who still think coal is the best way to produce elecricity.

British Petroleum shut down England's coal mines. Competition, you know.

 

[Grandma]

Matt, I grew up in coal country, in a house that had a coal furnace, as did my first school.

Coal is the old black. There are no two ways about it, coal is on the way out. There's nothing that can be done to change that.

I feel bad, really bad, fucking awful for those that will be out of work. They'll be just like I was during the Rust Belt years. I know exactly how much life will suck for them.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Instead of begging Obama and Congress to continue with an obsolete industry, they can insist that their displaced workforce be included in rebuilding the country's energy grid. They can demand that solar panel factories be funded in their districts, and that wind farms be built on the old mine sites - and that they be trained and hired to maintain those windmills.

It's not just energy, it's energy efficiency - they can ask for window glass factories, or fiberglass insulation factories.

Ever been to Mammoth Cave? There's a lot of hillside in Appalachia, building homes into the hills instead of perching houses on a ridge could start a whole new geothermal-based housing boom, you never know.

Granny should go without heat in the winter, we'd feel bad for her, but that's the sacrifice one must make to save the planet

I don't use coal. Haven't lived in a coal-heated house or apartment since 1968.

 

[bripat9643]

Matt, I grew up in coal country, in a house that had a coal furnace, as did my first school.

Coal is the old black. There are no two ways about it, coal is on the way out. There's nothing that can be done to change that.

I feel bad, really bad, fucking awful for those that will be out of work. They'll be just like I was during the Rust Belt years. I know exactly how much life will suck for them.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Instead of begging Obama and Congress to continue with an obsolete industry, they can insist that their displaced workforce be included in rebuilding the country's energy grid. They can demand that solar panel factories be funded in their districts, and that wind farms be built on the old mine sites - and that they be trained and hired to maintain those windmills.

It's not just energy, it's energy efficiency - they can ask for window glass factories, or fiberglass insulation factories.

Ever been to Mammoth Cave? There's a lot of hillside in Appalachia, building homes into the hills instead of perching houses on a ridge could start a whole new geothermal-based housing boom, you never know.

Granny should go without heat in the winter, we'd feel bad for her, but that's the sacrifice one must make to save the planet

I don't use coal. Haven't lived in a coal-heated house or apartment since 1968.

Do you use electricity? If so, then you are using coal.

 

[Grandma]

Saigon doesn't think about that, he relies on their Government not their economy...also how big is his country compared to ours?
but he knows what's best for us

No, I'm talking about private companies creating jobs and exports.

I can list a dozen very successful private energy companies here that aren't reliant on the subsidies coal has always relied on.

The kind of thing the US used to do before Luddites told you to stop competing.

yeah well, we have a interfering government here that is starting to hurt us in my opinion..

Obama took billions of our money and gave it to his friends in private green energy and most of them went bankrupt..why do you suppose that is?
and until we have these companies we can rely on COAL is still the cheapest

Actually the Solyndra program was started by Bush, and he and Obama gave them millions, not billions.

The reason they went bankrupt is because a new, thinner, more efficient solar cell was invented, making Solyndra's obsolete.