Coldest Winter in 100 Years

[CrusaderFrank]

"From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: Tom Wigley <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: FOIA
Date: Fri Jan 21 1506 2005
Cc: Ben Santer <[email protected]>

Tom,
I'll look at what you've said over the weekend re CCSP.
I don't know the other panel members. I've not heard any
more about it since agreeing a week ago.
As for FOIA Sarah isn't technically employed by UEA and she
will likely be paid by Manchester Metropolitan University.
I wouldn't worry about the code. If FOIA does ever get
used by anyone, there is also IPR to consider as well.
Data is covered by all the agreements we sign with people,
so I will be hiding behind them. I'll be passing any
requests onto the person at UEA who has been given a post to
deal with them.
Cheers
Phil"

East Anglia Confirmed Emails from the Climate Research Unit - Searchable

Why would a real scientist not comply with a FOIA request? Why?

What is he hiding?

Oh, right, he's hiding the decline in temps!

and why did he write "cheers"? is phil jones a raging alcoholic?

Are you absofuckinglutely sure you want to delve further into Phil Jones attitude to FOIA?

 

[L.K.Eder]

"From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: Tom Wigley <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: FOIA
Date: Fri Jan 21 1506 2005
Cc: Ben Santer <[email protected]>

Tom,
I'll look at what you've said over the weekend re CCSP.
I don't know the other panel members. I've not heard any
more about it since agreeing a week ago.
As for FOIA Sarah isn't technically employed by UEA and she
will likely be paid by Manchester Metropolitan University.
I wouldn't worry about the code. If FOIA does ever get
used by anyone, there is also IPR to consider as well.
Data is covered by all the agreements we sign with people,
so I will be hiding behind them. I'll be passing any
requests onto the person at UEA who has been given a post to
deal with them.
Cheers
Phil"

East Anglia Confirmed Emails from the Climate Research Unit - Searchable

Why would a real scientist not comply with a FOIA request? Why?

What is he hiding?

Oh, right, he's hiding the decline in temps!

and why did he write "cheers"? is phil jones a raging alcoholic?

Are you absofuckinglutely sure you want to delve further into Phil Jones attitude to FOIA?

it think it is outrageous that a raging alcoholic is trying to dictate how i waste my energy.

but i have to stay another 15 minutes, my SUV is not warm enough yet. and the ice is not yet gone from the windshield.

 

[Big Fitz]

Such as? If you're referring to CO2 spikes at the end of glacial periods, read back in the thread a bit. Otherwise, please educate me.

Here ya go. Not precisely a discussion of when or why CO2 increased in the atmosphere, but very close:

Climate during the Carboniferous Period

If this is accurate, and it seems to be as authoritative as most of the other stuff being posted as 'evidence', then our fearless leaders should be urging us to pump a whole bunch more CO2 into the atmosphere than we are.

There are credible scientists who believe just that - the earth would benefit from MORE CO2 in the atmosphere, not less.

Not a lot of money for the GO GREEN INDUSTRY in that though...

It means control is slipping, and science, not dogma is happening on the subject again.

4 years. That's my prediction. 2014

In 4 years "Green" will be the next "Disco".

 

[Sinatra]

Here ya go. Not precisely a discussion of when or why CO2 increased in the atmosphere, but very close:

Climate during the Carboniferous Period

If this is accurate, and it seems to be as authoritative as most of the other stuff being posted as 'evidence', then our fearless leaders should be urging us to pump a whole bunch more CO2 into the atmosphere than we are.

There are credible scientists who believe just that - the earth would benefit from MORE CO2 in the atmosphere, not less.

Not a lot of money for the GO GREEN INDUSTRY in that though...

It means control is slipping, and science, not dogma is happening on the subject again.

4 years. That's my prediction. 2014

In 4 years "Green" will be the next "Disco".

God I hope so...

 

[saveliberty]

There are credible scientists who believe just that - the earth would benefit from MORE CO2 in the atmosphere, not less.

Not a lot of money for the GO GREEN INDUSTRY in that though...

It means control is slipping, and science, not dogma is happening on the subject again.

4 years. That's my prediction. 2014

In 4 years "Green" will be the next "Disco".

God I hope so...

There's always fallout from this type of crap. Save a tree, use plastic bags. Now we are up to our eyeballs in plastic bags. How bad are they? Even China is limiting their use. Oh, but they're recycleable. Yeah? So are paper bags.

 

[Foxfyre]

It means control is slipping, and science, not dogma is happening on the subject again.

4 years. That's my prediction. 2014

In 4 years "Green" will be the next "Disco".

God I hope so...

There's always fallout from this type of crap. Save a tree, use plastic bags. Now we are up to our eyeballs in plastic bags. How bad are they? Even China is limiting their use. Oh, but they're recycleable. Yeah? So are paper bags.

Here my friend, while you and I are generally on the same page and mostly share a common sense ideology, I'll have to gently quarrel with you just a tad on this one.

While trees absorb tremendous amounts of CO2 and are a 100% renewable resource, using plastic instead of paper bags is a no brainer. Foregoing plastic bags is just one of those urban myths perpetuated by environmental religionists.

Using plastic bags is more economical and efficient than paper bags and we should not feel the least bit guilty when we ask for plastic. For certain we should not be trying to shut down one of the few profitable manufacturing industries we have left.

We should however be recycling when it makes sense to do so, and recycling plastic bags does make sense. We should be encouraging our local markets to use recyclable plastic.

RECYCLABLE PLASTIC BAGS

Plastic grocery bags are an extremely resource-efficient disposable bag choice.
&#8226;
Plastic grocery bags require 70 percent less energy to manufacture than paper bags.1
&#8226;
For every seven trucks needed to deliver paper bags, only one truck is needed for the same number of plastic bags, helping to save energy and reduce emissions.
&#8226;
It takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper.

Less material means less waste and fewer emissions.
&#8226;
2,000 plastic bags weigh 30 lbs; 2,000 paper bags weigh 280 lbs. Plastic bags take up a lot less space in a landfill.2
&#8226;
Plastic bags generate 80 percent less waste than paper bags.2
&#8226;
Plastic grocery and retail bags make up a tiny fraction (less than 0.5 percent) of the U.S. municipal solid waste stream.3
&#8226;
Plastic bags generate only 50% of the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of composted paper bags.1
&#8226;
The production of plastic bags consumes less than 6 percent of the water needed to make paper bags.

Plastic grocery bags are fully recyclable4 and the number of recycling programs is increasing daily.
&#8226;
Nationwide over 830 million pounds of bags and film were recycled in 2007 &#8211; up 27 percent from 2005.5
&#8226;
According to EPA&#8217;s data, about 12 percent of plastic bags and film were recycled in 2007.3
&#8226;
Plastic bags can be made into dozens of useful new products, such as building and construction products, low-maintenance fencing and decking, and of course, new bags.
&#8226;
There is high demand for this material, and in most areas, demand exceeds the available supply because many consumers are not aware that collection programs are available at local stores.
&#8226;
In recent years, many grocers and retailers have introduced plastic bag collection programs. Consumers should look for a collection bin, usually located at the front of the store. The number of municipal drop-off centers and curbside programs to recycle plastic bags is increasing also. Consumers can locate plastic bag recycling programs in their communities by visiting www.PlasticBagRecycling.org.
&#8226;
In addition to grocery bags, other plastic retail bags, dry cleaning bags, newspaper bags, plastic wrap from products like paper towels and toilet paper, and all bags labeled with recycling codes #2 (HDPE) and #4 (LLDPE) can be included wherever plastic bags are collected for recycling.
http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_plastics/sec_content.asp?CID=1102&DID=5615

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

Hardly unprecedented. -58 is the record for South Dakota. And Blue Northers are a priarie legend for both North and South Dakota.

UNITED STATES EXTREME RECORD TEMPERATURES & RANGES

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

Hardly unprecedented. -58 is the record for South Dakota. And Blue Northers are a priarie legend for both North and South Dakota.

UNITED STATES EXTREME RECORD TEMPERATURES & RANGES

Well you could be right, but she is pretty sure it is several degrees below the previous record for where she is. Your map doesn't specify where the readings were taken. We get three different weather forecasts for Albuquerque alone most days because of the sharp variance in terrain and proximity to the mountains and river basin.

At any rate, they are unable to keep water liquid in the horsetank long enough for the stock to get a drink and their pipes are frozen and they are not taking global warming real seriouslike this week.

 

[saveliberty]

God I hope so...

There's always fallout from this type of crap. Save a tree, use plastic bags. Now we are up to our eyeballs in plastic bags. How bad are they? Even China is limiting their use. Oh, but they're recycleable. Yeah? So are paper bags.

Here my friend, while you and I are generally on the same page and mostly share a common sense ideology, I'll have to gently quarrel with you just a tad on this one.

While trees absorb tremendous amounts of CO2 and are a 100% renewable resource, using plastic instead of paper bags is a no brainer. Foregoing plastic bags is just one of those urban myths perpetuated by environmental religionists.

Using plastic bags is more economical and efficient than paper bags and we should not feel the least bit guilty when we ask for plastic. For certain we should not be trying to shut down one of the few profitable manufacturing industries we have left.

We should however be recycling when it makes sense to do so, and recycling plastic bags does make sense. We should be encouraging our local markets to use recyclable plastic.

RECYCLABLE PLASTIC BAGS

Plastic grocery bags are an extremely resource-efficient disposable bag choice.
•
Plastic grocery bags require 70 percent less energy to manufacture than paper bags.1
•
For every seven trucks needed to deliver paper bags, only one truck is needed for the same number of plastic bags, helping to save energy and reduce emissions.
•
It takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper.

Less material means less waste and fewer emissions.
•
2,000 plastic bags weigh 30 lbs; 2,000 paper bags weigh 280 lbs. Plastic bags take up a lot less space in a landfill.2
•
Plastic bags generate 80 percent less waste than paper bags.2
•
Plastic grocery and retail bags make up a tiny fraction (less than 0.5 percent) of the U.S. municipal solid waste stream.3
•
Plastic bags generate only 50% of the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of composted paper bags.1
•
The production of plastic bags consumes less than 6 percent of the water needed to make paper bags.

Plastic grocery bags are fully recyclable4 and the number of recycling programs is increasing daily.
•
Nationwide over 830 million pounds of bags and film were recycled in 2007 – up 27 percent from 2005.5
•
According to EPA’s data, about 12 percent of plastic bags and film were recycled in 2007.3
•
Plastic bags can be made into dozens of useful new products, such as building and construction products, low-maintenance fencing and decking, and of course, new bags.
•
There is high demand for this material, and in most areas, demand exceeds the available supply because many consumers are not aware that collection programs are available at local stores.
•
In recent years, many grocers and retailers have introduced plastic bag collection programs. Consumers should look for a collection bin, usually located at the front of the store. The number of municipal drop-off centers and curbside programs to recycle plastic bags is increasing also. Consumers can locate plastic bag recycling programs in their communities by visiting www.PlasticBagRecycling.org.
•
In addition to grocery bags, other plastic retail bags, dry cleaning bags, newspaper bags, plastic wrap from products like paper towels and toilet paper, and all bags labeled with recycling codes #2 (HDPE) and #4 (LLDPE) can be included wherever plastic bags are collected for recycling.
http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_plastics/sec_content.asp?CID=1102&DID=5615

Thanks for sharing. I liked the ones in bold especially. Though making more CO2 emissions with paper is tempting.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

Hardly unprecedented. -58 is the record for South Dakota. And Blue Northers are a priarie legend for both North and South Dakota.

UNITED STATES EXTREME RECORD TEMPERATURES & RANGES

Well you could be right, but she is pretty sure it is several degrees below the previous record for where she is. Your map doesn't specify where the readings were taken. We get three different weather forecasts for Albuquerque alone most days because of the sharp variance in terrain and proximity to the mountains and river basin.

At any rate, they are unable to keep water liquid in the horsetank long enough for the stock to get a drink and their pipes are frozen and they are not taking global warming real seriouslike this week.

I grew up in mountain country in Oregon. -54 the record there. Have personally seen it freeze mercury. And worked in -30 degrees. Yes, the mountain country has very variable weather. However, only a small portion of South Dakota is Mountain country. And that is the Black Hills. The kind of cold that you are posting just was not uncommon half a century ago. And very common in the 1880s.

 

[Big Fitz]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

It's not unprecedented for January. It just sucks. Every January, as sure as shit flies out of a greenie's mouth, you get a cold snap, and some REALLY horribly cold weather. I remember the winters of 1993 through 1996. January in Wisconsin had a MINIMUM of one week where the high did not break 0 degrees. In 1996, we had a January where we spent about 20 days at -10 or colder for a high! The air felt so cold it felt like water. THAT was a crappy January.

But you know what? In spite of all this, nobody, and I mean NOBODY said it was because mankind was screwing up the climate. We blamed things like La Nina, Mount Pinatubo and just really crappy luck to draw the short straw from nature that year.

Cycles of weather happen, this we agree.

Where we sane people and Ole' Crocks part company is believing that man is powerful enough to do this... which he is patently not.

I wonder if Crocks and Co. has any solution to this 'threat' to all life that doesn't involve massive global government control? I doubt it, but it would be very interesting to hear what non-governmental, non-coersive methods he has to deal with this issue.

 

[Foxfyre]

Headed for my warm bed as the temperature drops like a stone here tonight. But I wanted to leave you guys with a beautiful poem received in my email to day.

THOUGHTS ON A WINTER DAY

by Evelyn Anderson Gunthorpe

Shit it's cold!

The end.

 

[Sinatra]

Headed for my warm bed as the temperature drops like a stone here tonight. But I wanted to leave you guys with a beautiful poem received in my email to day.

THOUGHTS ON A WINTER DAY

by Evelyn Anderson Gunthorpe

Shit it's cold!

The end.

 

[sboyle24]

It's not even cold on the west coast right now. In fact, this would be a relatively warm winter.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm...... Let's see. Winter officially began on December 21, 2009. It is not yet January 21, 2010. With only about a sixth of the winter gone, you are declaring it the coldest in 100 years?

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

It's not unprecedented for January. It just sucks. Every January, as sure as shit flies out of a greenie's mouth, you get a cold snap, and some REALLY horribly cold weather. I remember the winters of 1993 through 1996. January in Wisconsin had a MINIMUM of one week where the high did not break 0 degrees. In 1996, we had a January where we spent about 20 days at -10 or colder for a high! The air felt so cold it felt like water. THAT was a crappy January.

But you know what? In spite of all this, nobody, and I mean NOBODY said it was because mankind was screwing up the climate. We blamed things like La Nina, Mount Pinatubo and just really crappy luck to draw the short straw from nature that year.

Cycles of weather happen, this we agree.

Where we sane people and Ole' Crocks part company is believing that man is powerful enough to do this... which he is patently not.

Blue green algea, far smaller than we completely changed the composition of the atmosphere of the Earth. All man has done is to change the per centage of GHGs so far. And, yes, that does change the climate.

I wonder if Crocks and Co. has any solution to this 'threat' to all life that doesn't involve massive global government control? I doubt it, but it would be very interesting to hear what non-governmental, non-coersive methods he has to deal with this issue.

At this point, I doubt that anything we do will change what is down the road. And, since most governments, ours included, is far more at the beck and call of the oligarchs, don't worry about it. Nothing is going to be done that will alleviate the amount of GHGs in the atmosphere until there are major amounts of people dying in the wealthy nations.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Headed for my warm bed as the temperature drops like a stone here tonight. But I wanted to leave you guys with a beautiful poem received in my email to day.

THOUGHTS ON A WINTER DAY

by Evelyn Anderson Gunthorpe

Shit it's cold!

The end.

brought a tear to my eye

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes, a major heat wave could strike next week and moderate all those record cold temperatures. But I just had a conversation with a friend in South Dakota where it was minus 20 something degrees when they got up this morning with blizzard conditions and something like minus 50 windchill. Even for up there, I believe that is unprecedented, and forecasters are seeing no immediate serious relief in sight.

It's not unprecedented for January. It just sucks. Every January, as sure as shit flies out of a greenie's mouth, you get a cold snap, and some REALLY horribly cold weather. I remember the winters of 1993 through 1996. January in Wisconsin had a MINIMUM of one week where the high did not break 0 degrees. In 1996, we had a January where we spent about 20 days at -10 or colder for a high! The air felt so cold it felt like water. THAT was a crappy January.

But you know what? In spite of all this, nobody, and I mean NOBODY said it was because mankind was screwing up the climate. We blamed things like La Nina, Mount Pinatubo and just really crappy luck to draw the short straw from nature that year.

Cycles of weather happen, this we agree.

Where we sane people and Ole' Crocks part company is believing that man is powerful enough to do this... which he is patently not.

Blue green algea, far smaller than we completely changed the composition of the atmosphere of the Earth. All man has done is to change the per centage of GHGs so far. And, yes, that does change the climate.

I wonder if Crocks and Co. has any solution to this 'threat' to all life that doesn't involve massive global government control? I doubt it, but it would be very interesting to hear what non-governmental, non-coersive methods he has to deal with this issue.

At this point, I doubt that anything we do will change what is down the road. And, since most governments, ours included, is far more at the beck and call of the oligarchs, don't worry about it. Nothing is going to be done that will alleviate the amount of GHGs in the atmosphere until there are major amounts of people dying in the wealthy nations.

Maybe the Big Yellow Thing in the Sky can counter the current cooling trend?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

From Phil Jones. To: Michael Mann. Date: May 29, 2008
"Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise."

Don't all real scientists delete emails and destroy data?