Coldest Winter in 100 Years

[Big Fitz]

I love it. All these different MASSIVE factors all playing a part in the climate, yet mankind which cannot really even change one without a concentrated effort is thought to be able to disrupt them all.

What hubris.

So what "massive factors" are changing Earth's energy balance? Man may not be making a concentrated effort, but billions of people, heavily dependent on fossil fuels, are having a cumulative effect. What's hubris to me is the assumption that pumping out gigatons of fossil CO2 annually over decades will have little effect on a climate and biosphere that's apparently carbon-sensitive, in both positive and potentially negative ways.

Significant composition of atmosphere changes
We produce less than 0.4% of all CO2 production which composes .3% of the entire atmosphere. This is the equivalent of bonfire in a blizzard altering the temperature of the surrounding 20 miles enough to affect the storm. Don't forget, Water Vapor is a much more significant percentage of atmosphere than CO2. About 10 TIMES more and yet we can't figure out how to see it's influence because well. IT PRECIPITATES COOLING THE ATMOSPHERE! Refrigeration 101.

Sea Water Salinity changes interfering with ocean currents.
Since the polar icecaps grow and shrink at the control more of the solar output than greenhouse gases, I doubt that we can even come close to affect the 'salinity conveyor' if it even exists, which is still to be proven from what I've seen, and what I remember from my courses in Oceanography and Geology as taught pre-AGW hysteria.

Volcanic Eruptions exceed all of mankind's pollution every time.
You do realize that all it takes is 1 moderate sized volcanic eruption to equal ALL of mankind's pollution in its entire history, right? Not just one year. All years. And this is supposed to alter the weather when we can't do even a fraction of a percent of a single volcanic eruption of pollution? How many times a year does Mt. Kilhuea erupt? and yet, huh... our weather doesn't collapse every time that happens.

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

 

[mal]

Saturday, January 9, 2010 | Savannah, GA 21° Feels Like: 15° Clear

DAMN... I'm Sure that's just a Glitch...



peace...

 

[Liability]

Saturday, January 9, 2010 | Savannah, GA 21° Feels Like: 15° Clear

DAMN... I'm Sure that's just a Glitch...



peace...

It's time for another rousing chorus of the AGW Faither's Hymn! Old Susannah!

"The sun so hot I froze to death !!!!"

 

[mal]

Saturday, January 9, 2010 | Savannah, GA 21° Feels Like: 15° Clear

DAMN... I'm Sure that's just a Glitch...



peace...

It's time for another rousing chorus of the AGW Faither's Hymn! Old Susannah!

"The sun so hot I froze to death !!!!"

ON IT!... As usual... Counselor.



peace...

 

[Big Fitz]

Saturday, January 9, 2010 | Savannah, GA 21° Feels Like: 15° Clear

DAMN... I'm Sure that's just a Glitch...



peace...

It's time for another rousing chorus of the AGW Faither's Hymn! Old Susannah!

"The sun so hot I froze to death !!!!"

With a banjo on your knee? A good surgeon can remove that as an outpatient procedure.

 

[Old Rocks]

I love it. All these different MASSIVE factors all playing a part in the climate, yet mankind which cannot really even change one without a concentrated effort is thought to be able to disrupt them all.

What hubris.

So what "massive factors" are changing Earth's energy balance? Man may not be making a concentrated effort, but billions of people, heavily dependent on fossil fuels, are having a cumulative effect. What's hubris to me is the assumption that pumping out gigatons of fossil CO2 annually over decades will have little effect on a climate and biosphere that's apparently carbon-sensitive, in both positive and potentially negative ways.

Significant composition of atmosphere changes
We produce less than 0.4% of all CO2 production which composes .3% of the entire atmosphere. This is the equivalent of bonfire in a blizzard altering the temperature of the surrounding 20 miles enough to affect the storm.

Pure bullshit. We have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to 385+ ppm. That is as large of an increase as made the differance between continental glaciers and the present climate.

Don't forget, Water Vapor is a much more significant percentage of atmosphere than CO2. About 10 TIMES more and yet we can't figure out how to see it's influence because well. IT PRECIPITATES COOLING THE ATMOSPHERE! Refrigeration 101.

Yee Gods and little fishes. Meaningless talking points right out of the mouth of a wooly headed sheep. Look, dumbass, the residence time for H2O in the atmosphere is less than 10 days, that of CO2, about two centuries. Yes, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas, and it is a feedback effect of an atmosphere warmed by CO2.

Instead trying to extrapolate climatology from a repair manual on refrigerators, how about reading some basic texts on climate?

Sea Water Salinity changes interfering with ocean currents.
Since the polar icecaps grow and shrink at the control more of the solar output than greenhouse gases, I doubt that we can even come close to affect the 'salinity conveyor' if it even exists, which is still to be proven from what I've seen, and what I remember from my courses in Oceanography and Geology as taught pre-AGW hysteria.

From my courses in Geology, a rapid decrease in the salinity of the arctic did shut down the thermohaline circulation during the Younger Drayas.

Will the melting of the arctic, Greenland, and the artic permafrost and yedoma, by rapid enough to affect the circulation? We do not know.

Volcanic Eruptions exceed all of mankind's pollution every time.

Did you fail your geology course? USGS figures, the anthropogenic CO2 exceeds the volcanic CO2 by a factor of 130 to 150.

You do realize that all it takes is 1 moderate sized volcanic eruption to equal ALL of mankind's pollution in its entire history, right?

That is simply not true. Not even nearly true.

Not just one year. All years. And this is supposed to alter the weather when we can't do even a fraction of a percent of a single volcanic eruption of pollution? How many times a year does Mt. Kilhuea erupt? and yet, huh... our weather doesn't collapse every time that happens.

OK, now you have made a whole series of fallicious statements.

Back them up with some science!

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

Now here is how proper posting concerning science is done.

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

Tell me again about the geology classes that you took in college? Did you sleep through them?

 

[FactFinder]

Global warming has been doing its trick here. In the last 2 hours the temp has rapidly escalated from 1 degree to 4 degrees. Noticed we got into the plural (degree..s). What a relief.

Despite have a pretty good wood stove my oil belcher was firing off. I hope my account is in good standing with Gore's carbon credit company. I surely don't need the carbon cops coming down on me. Now if I can find a large enough dog to waste I may generate enough credit to offset an SUV purchase.

 

[edthecynic]

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

I choose CHERRY-PICKING.

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that Mars is showing long term warming.

Only 6 planets or moons out of the 100+ bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling.

 

[CurveLight]

Britain facing one of the coldest winters in 100 years, experts predict

Britain is bracing itself for one of the coldest winters for a century with temperatures hitting minus 16 degrees Celsius, forecasters have warned.

They predicted no let up in the freezing snap until at least mid-January, with snow, ice and severe frosts dominating.

And the likelihood is that the second half of the month will be even colder....

____


Britain facing one of the coldest winters in 100 years, experts predict - Telegraph

Is this some way of claiming global warming isn't happening? I don't know what conclusion is best but I do know it's pretty fucking stupid to cite one small part of the earth and use that to extrapolate global theories. Stuff like this is why even if there are intelligent life forms in other galaxies that they would take one look at us and say "Wowzza! They way to fucked up to deal with!"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I love it. All these different MASSIVE factors all playing a part in the climate, yet mankind which cannot really even change one without a concentrated effort is thought to be able to disrupt them all.

What hubris.

So what "massive factors" are changing Earth's energy balance? Man may not be making a concentrated effort, but billions of people, heavily dependent on fossil fuels, are having a cumulative effect. What's hubris to me is the assumption that pumping out gigatons of fossil CO2 annually over decades will have little effect on a climate and biosphere that's apparently carbon-sensitive, in both positive and potentially negative ways.

Significant composition of atmosphere changes
We produce less than 0.4% of all CO2 production which composes .3% of the entire atmosphere. This is the equivalent of bonfire in a blizzard altering the temperature of the surrounding 20 miles enough to affect the storm. Don't forget, Water Vapor is a much more significant percentage of atmosphere than CO2. About 10 TIMES more and yet we can't figure out how to see it's influence because well. IT PRECIPITATES COOLING THE ATMOSPHERE! Refrigeration 101.

Sea Water Salinity changes interfering with ocean currents.
Since the polar icecaps grow and shrink at the control more of the solar output than greenhouse gases, I doubt that we can even come close to affect the 'salinity conveyor' if it even exists, which is still to be proven from what I've seen, and what I remember from my courses in Oceanography and Geology as taught pre-AGW hysteria.

Volcanic Eruptions exceed all of mankind's pollution every time.
You do realize that all it takes is 1 moderate sized volcanic eruption to equal ALL of mankind's pollution in its entire history, right? Not just one year. All years. And this is supposed to alter the weather when we can't do even a fraction of a percent of a single volcanic eruption of pollution? How many times a year does Mt. Kilhuea erupt? and yet, huh... our weather doesn't collapse every time that happens.

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

Warmers are religious fanatics

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

I choose CHERRY-PICKING.

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that Mars is showing long term warming.

Only 6 planets or moons out of the 100+ bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling.

You may be right because according to East Angelia, Earth is not experiencing any warming at present.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So what "massive factors" are changing Earth's energy balance? Man may not be making a concentrated effort, but billions of people, heavily dependent on fossil fuels, are having a cumulative effect. What's hubris to me is the assumption that pumping out gigatons of fossil CO2 annually over decades will have little effect on a climate and biosphere that's apparently carbon-sensitive, in both positive and potentially negative ways.

Significant composition of atmosphere changes
We produce less than 0.4% of all CO2 production which composes .3% of the entire atmosphere. This is the equivalent of bonfire in a blizzard altering the temperature of the surrounding 20 miles enough to affect the storm.

Pure bullshit. We have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to 385+ ppm. That is as large of an increase as made the differance between continental glaciers and the present climate.

Don't forget, Water Vapor is a much more significant percentage of atmosphere than CO2. About 10 TIMES more and yet we can't figure out how to see it's influence because well. IT PRECIPITATES COOLING THE ATMOSPHERE! Refrigeration 101.

Yee Gods and little fishes. Meaningless talking points right out of the mouth of a wooly headed sheep. Look, dumbass, the residence time for H2O in the atmosphere is less than 10 days, that of CO2, about two centuries. Yes, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas, and it is a feedback effect of an atmosphere warmed by CO2.

Instead trying to extrapolate climatology from a repair manual on refrigerators, how about reading some basic texts on climate?

Sea Water Salinity changes interfering with ocean currents.
Since the polar icecaps grow and shrink at the control more of the solar output than greenhouse gases, I doubt that we can even come close to affect the 'salinity conveyor' if it even exists, which is still to be proven from what I've seen, and what I remember from my courses in Oceanography and Geology as taught pre-AGW hysteria.

From my courses in Geology, a rapid decrease in the salinity of the arctic did shut down the thermohaline circulation during the Younger Drayas.

Will the melting of the arctic, Greenland, and the artic permafrost and yedoma, by rapid enough to affect the circulation? We do not know.

Volcanic Eruptions exceed all of mankind's pollution every time.

Did you fail your geology course? USGS figures, the anthropogenic CO2 exceeds the volcanic CO2 by a factor of 130 to 150.

You do realize that all it takes is 1 moderate sized volcanic eruption to equal ALL of mankind's pollution in its entire history, right?

That is simply not true. Not even nearly true.

Not just one year. All years. And this is supposed to alter the weather when we can't do even a fraction of a percent of a single volcanic eruption of pollution? How many times a year does Mt. Kilhuea erupt? and yet, huh... our weather doesn't collapse every time that happens.

OK, now you have made a whole series of fallicious statements.

Back them up with some science!

Mars is experiencing similar climate changes as Earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the Viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

Now here is how proper posting concerning science is done.

Volcanic Gases and Their Effects

Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

Tell me again about the geology classes that you took in college? Did you sleep through them?

So, the suv must be 18,000 years old! how else could the Wisconsin glacier have receeded?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So what do the ice core samples tell us about water vapor as a component of the atmosphere has it never varied by even 1ppm in a billion years?

oh, right i see the problem

 

[CrusaderFrank]

oh another thing, real scientists don't destroy data or tell colleagues to purge email because they might have to be disclosed under a foia request, unless they have something to hide

 

[Big Fitz]

When in doubt, blame the thermometer.

Now, since you've obviously failed Posting 101, THIS is how you quote someone else, pinhead.

Pure bullshit. We have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere from 280 ppm to 385+ ppm. That is as large of an increase as made the differance between continental glaciers and the present climate.

Still can't get past the 0.3% of 0.4% of atmospheric composition means diddlyshit can you? Too many other producers of CO2 far exceed our production... like ohhh I dunno... THE OCEANS?!? Ummmmm VOLCANOES?

Also, can you explain to me why you hate plants so much? Greenhouses jack their CO2 contents up to around 1400ppm because it's good for the plants, encouraging them to grow faster.

So, why do you hate Gaia?

Yee Gods and little fishes. Meaningless talking points right out of the mouth of a wooly headed sheep. Look, dumbass, the residence time for H2O in the atmosphere is less than 10 days, that of CO2, about two centuries. Yes, water vapor is the primary greenhouse gas, and it is a feedback effect of an atmosphere warmed by CO2.

Instead trying to extrapolate climatology from a repair manual on refrigerators, how about reading some basic texts on climate?

First off, I find it funny that you worship little fishes as God. Explains a lot.

Second of all, I didn't realize that physics wasn't scalable to planetary levels. You know... compression of gas, release of pressure causing temperature change. Water vapor is more prevalent in the atmosphere by a factor of 100 and yet it's impact on the climate is largely ignored because it is too hard to predict in computer models. They just "assume" most of it's action therefore can we REALLY take the computer models seriously?

Not to mention that CO2 is being shown by non-manipulated evidence to be the trailing indicator, not the causational of a warming climate.

From my courses in Geology, a rapid decrease in the salinity of the arctic did shut down the thermohaline circulation during the Younger Drayas.

Will the melting of the arctic, Greenland, and the artic permafrost and yedoma, by rapid enough to affect the circulation? We do not know.

Except 15 years ago, it wasn't being taught because it was not even close to accepted science. It wasn't till after it was popularized by causeheads in Hollywood looking for a disaster movie hook to push the bullshit in "The Day After Tomorrow". They latched on to this spurious theory and pushed it as fact. And one thing I have noticed about lots of environwhackos, they believe fiction quite well. Defining characteristic it seems.

Unlike you though, I didn't attend the Algore Online Community College. My former university didn't offer courses in Politi-Geology, and Socialist Oceanography.

Did you fail your geology course? USGS figures, the anthropogenic CO2 exceeds the volcanic CO2 by a factor of 130 to 150.

...

That is simply not true. Not even nearly true.

Well, according to a Dr. of Vulcanology that is a family friend, it is quite true. We discussed this years ago about mankind's pollution versus volcanic production. So, no. You're out of touch. We still don't equal one volcanic eruption from all our history.

OK, now you have made a whole series of fallicious statements.

Back them up with some science!

Be your own research monkey, bitch. I've better things to do than look shit up for you that you won't believe anyway. You've sold your soul to the greens and for what? Thinking they'll make you someone significant when the fascists control the world?

Although I will say that calling bullshit on your crazy theories is entertaining enough to keep me coming back for now.

 

[edthecynic]

mars is experiencing similar climate changes as earth and at the same rates.
Wow, our rovers and the viking probe are sure polluting a lot.

Hubris. Egotism. Megalomania. Delusional.

Take your pick, they're all apropos.

i choose cherry-picking.

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that mars is showing long term warming.

Only 6 planets or moons out of the 100+ bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, uranus is cooling.

you may be right because according to east angelia, earth is not experiencing any warming at present.

baloney!

 

[Big Fitz]

i choose cherry-picking.

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that mars is showing long term warming.

Only 6 planets or moons out of the 100+ bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, uranus is cooling.

you may be right because according to east angelia, earth is not experiencing any warming at present.

baloney!

You complain of cherry picking yet Mann, Jones and Hansen based their research off of 3 cherry picked trees in Siberia.

I refer you to the case of Pot v. Kettle

 

[Big Fitz]

i choose cherry-picking.

Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo and there is little empirical evidence that mars is showing long term warming.

Only 6 planets or moons out of the 100+ bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, uranus is cooling.

you may be right because according to east angelia, earth is not experiencing any warming at present.

baloney!

You complain of cherry picking yet Mann, Jones and Hansen based their research off of 3 cherry picked trees in Siberia.

I refer you to the case of Pot v. Kettle

 

[Sinatra]

+

All of which points to the fallacy of the man-made global warming mantra.

"We" simply do not know what earth's "optimal" temperature is, nor what its optimal CO2 level is, nor to what extent CO2 actually plays in the overall climate.

The entire premise for CO2 controlls is based upon greed, ignorance, and arrogance -- not a healthy combination in any sense...

Personally, I think that applies more to the misleading arguments against any CO2 control, bankrolled by fossil fuel interests. There's plenty of reviewed and assessed research on climate sensitivity to CO2. Nobody claims uncertainty doesn't remain (uncertainty that can cut both ways) - that's why it's often expressed as a range, but one that's been narrowed down over the decades. And we've already been over the "optimal" temperature straw man.

Yes - you pointed out a time period as "optimal" that was considerably warmer than it is today.

So, not only would you like to see it warmer, but you also gave an example of how the earth's temps have cycled from warmer to colder long before man-made CO2 was an issue.

Once again, your own arguement shows the fallacy of widespread CO2 "CAPS".

We should be utilizing our own nation's resources far more fully. Increase domestic drilling, increase cleaner coal production, increase natural gas production and expanding its use in vehicles, increase nuclear production - all of which is technology that works NOW, and can provide many many high paying and longer-term jobs.

Continue to look into alternative energy as well, but don't cap the nation's economic capability for a theory that you yourself has proven as highly speculative and utterly bereft of historical certainty.

Well done![/QUOTE]

 

[edthecynic]

you may be right because according to east angelia, earth is not experiencing any warming at present.

baloney!

You complain of cherry picking yet Mann, Jones and Hansen based their research off of 3 cherry picked trees in Siberia.

I refer you to the case of Pot v. Kettle

More BALONEY!