Coldest Winter in 100 Years

[OregonStream]

Mars isn't Earth. With a thinner atmosphere and no oceans, it would probably be more sensitive to even modest solar flux. But it also has different orbital parameters, strong seasonal variation, rapid changes in polar ice, and hemispheric dust storms that make for a less stable climate. More on the "other planets warming" meme here.

 

[OregonStream]

Problem is, Fitz, you still don't seem to have explained what any of that stuff in red means (or why it's nefarious). Here are a few clues to what they were talking about.

 

[Maple]

Florida- record cold- has not gone above 50 degrees for the last 10 days, a low of 38degrees in Miami- Tallahassee 13 degree's, there goes the orange crop.

 

[Maple]

I think the whole point is that we can all agree that climate change exists, it existed back in the 20's when we thought we were going through another warming trend, then in the 40's the return of the ice age. There is no clear evidence on what causes climate changes to happen, but that does not mean that we jump to conclusions, make drastic changes in the hopes of correcting something that we could very well have NO possibility of correcting. It very well could be natural or God created climate changes.

 

[OregonStream]

I think the whole point is that we can all agree that climate change exists, it existed back in the 20's when we thought we were going through another warming trend, then in the 40's the return of the ice age. There is no clear evidence on what causes climate changes to happen, but that does not mean that we jump to conclusions, make drastic changes in the hopes of correcting something that we could very well have NO possibility of correcting. It very well could be natural or God created climate changes.

I haven't seen scientific evidence that the natural variation of the 20's through the 40's was strong on a global scale. But today we have an absence of the kind of solar flux that produced apparently modest change in the global averages back then (with stronger regional effects associated with oceanic heat distribution). These give some idea:

 

[Old Rocks]

Florida- record cold- has not gone above 50 degrees for the last 10 days, a low of 38degrees in Miami- Tallahassee 13 degree's, there goes the orange crop.

Wider and wilder swings in weather with an overall warming trend.

The danger is not a few degrees warmer, but increasingly unpredictable weather patterns that negatively impact the world's agricultureral production.

 

[saveliberty]

Notes on the charts:

1. Data on Antarctia is almost nonexistent.
2. Data for Antarctia that does exist suggests a cooling trend.
3. I question the reliability of any chart (last one lower left), that shows no data right next to a very cool spot right next to a very warm spot. Paticularly when the really hot spot is where scientist have a research center.

 

[Big Fitz]

Problem is, Fitz, you still don't seem to have explained what any of that stuff in red means (or why it's nefarious). Here are a few clues to what they were talking about.

Uhhh.... Essentially, I've shown you comments of the Warmists saying "yeah, we're committing fraud." and you say... you're not showing us anything.



So, what proof WOULD you believe, since you're being extremely stringent in what you believe as to protect your faith?

 

[Big Fitz]

Florida- record cold- has not gone above 50 degrees for the last 10 days, a low of 38degrees in Miami- Tallahassee 13 degree's, there goes the orange crop.

Wider and wilder swings in weather with an overall warming trend.

The danger is not a few degrees warmer, but increasingly unpredictable weather patterns that negatively impact the world's agricultureral production.

Ah yes. the "If there's weather, it proves Global Warming" argument.

 

[Big Fitz]

Problem is, Fitz, you still don't seem to have explained what any of that stuff in red means (or why it's nefarious). Here are a few clues to what they were talking about.

Sooooo... you send me to the Warmist coverup page.

These are not the smoking guns you are looking for....

... you will go into the bedroom and smack dad in the face....

... go get me a cookie....

Hey! Why not send me to a Boston Red Socks website to PROVE why the Yankee's suck? That'd be non biased, won't it? Better yet, I'd like to invest in the Bernie Madoff Appeal fund?

How blind do you think people are?

 

[saveliberty]

Problem is, Fitz, you still don't seem to have explained what any of that stuff in red means (or why it's nefarious). Here are a few clues to what they were talking about.

Uhhh.... Essentially, I've shown you comments of the Warmists saying "yeah, we're committing fraud." and you say... you're not showing us anything.



So, what proof WOULD you believe, since you're being extremely stringent in what you believe as to protect your faith?

His whole program is global warmist talking points Big Fitz. The lemming just goes and goes. The cliff of reality can't slow him down. Jump OregonStream jump.

 

[Big Fitz]

Sighhh... true.

 

[OregonStream]

Notes on the charts:

1. Data on Antarctia is almost nonexistent.
2. Data for Antarctia that does exist suggests a cooling trend.
3. I question the reliability of any chart (last one lower left), that shows no data right next to a very cool spot right next to a very warm spot. Paticularly when the really hot spot is where scientist have a research center.

Somehow it's not surprising that you have unsubstantiated suspicions, but I doubt a scientific encampment can correlate with the patterns of anomaly, including off the coast. The surface data for Antarctica is limited, yes, but the more the situation there is researched, the less of an icon it becomes for the cooling gang. And climate models have long projected relative stability in Antarctica as a whole for this century (here). It has some unique regional traits, including the high heat uptake of the Southern ocean.

 

[OregonStream]

Fitz, even if you aren't willing to consider inconvenient details from those involved in the research, you still haven't answered my question. All you guys can do is stays stuck in repeat about vague conspiracies and "warmists" following a religion (speaking of talking points), but you've presented nothing of substance. What do the parts in red refer to, Fitz?

 

[saveliberty]

Notes on the charts:

1. Data on Antarctia is almost nonexistent.
2. Data for Antarctia that does exist suggests a cooling trend.
3. I question the reliability of any chart (last one lower left), that shows no data right next to a very cool spot right next to a very warm spot. Paticularly when the really hot spot is where scientist have a research center.

Somehow it's not surprising that you have unsubstantiated suspicions, but I doubt a scientific encampment can correlate with the patterns of anomaly, including off the coast. The surface data for Antarctica is limited, yes, but the more the situation there is researched, the less of an icon it becomes for the cooling gang. And climate models have long projected relative stability in Antarctica as a whole for this century (here). It has some unique regional traits, including the high heat uptake of the Southern ocean.

So we take hard verifiable data and are unscientific. You use manipulated data and deception and it is science. Okay.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Florida- record cold- has not gone above 50 degrees for the last 10 days, a low of 38degrees in Miami- Tallahassee 13 degree's, there goes the orange crop.

Wider and wilder swings in weather with an overall warming trend.

The danger is not a few degrees warmer, but increasingly unpredictable weather patterns that negatively impact the world's agricultureral production.

So sometimes it get cooler when its warmer?

Is this like all those Cat 5 hurricanes that haven't appeared in 5 years?

The Great Climatic Googly Moogly is indeed a puzzlement

 

[OregonStream]

Still waiting for that proof of deception/manipulated data. Frank, I don't know why fluctuation within a trend is so hard to grasp. It's not perfect, but I used a stock market analogy in another post. Over time, the trend has been up, despite shorter-term ups and downs. And sometimes it does get regionally much cooler when heat distribution changes (as happened recently with an Arctic air incursion). If you heat up a room in your house and then open the door into a cooler hallway, does the average temperature of your house fall?

The hurricane argument is also about longer-term trends, mixed with the usual variability. No scientist I'm aware of has ever said the only influence on tropical storms is sea surface temperature. Other conditions need to be favorable too (like low wind shear). But of the storms that do occur, ocean heat content is expected to at least affect average strength.

 

[Big Fitz]

Fitz, even if you aren't willing to consider inconvenient details from those involved in the research, you still haven't answered my question. All you guys can do is stays stuck in repeat about vague conspiracies and "warmists" following a religion (speaking of talking points), but you've presented nothing of substance. What do the parts in red refer to, Fitz?

They are notes by the programmers showing that the program has been deliberately designed to provide a false warming after 1960. Personally, that was clear as day to me. I provided also the data set that they added INTO the model to keep the warming on their theorized basis rather than reflect the REAL results.

I dunno. Call me old fashioned, but that just seemed dishonest.

 

[Sinatra]

Miami's First Cold Weather Death Confirmed
Cold temps and no heat led to hypothermia for an elderly man

Miami's First Cold Weather Death Confirmed | NBC Miami


"algore and his scientist pals tell us global temperature increases track/follow CO2 increases - CO2 Causes Global Warming. I assume, since we're still running our SUV's CO2 has not diminished and is in fact increasing every moment.
Now we've got algore and his scientist pals telling us we're experiencing the "Global cooling effect of Global warming".

Wasn't there a line in some movie where the guy says "Don't p1ss on my head and tell me it's raining" ?"

 

[Foxfyre]

Fitz, even if you aren't willing to consider inconvenient details from those involved in the research, you still haven't answered my question. All you guys can do is stays stuck in repeat about vague conspiracies and "warmists" following a religion (speaking of talking points), but you've presented nothing of substance. What do the parts in red refer to, Fitz?

They are notes by the programmers showing that the program has been deliberately designed to provide a false warming after 1960. Personally, that was clear as day to me. I provided also the data set that they added INTO the model to keep the warming on their theorized basis rather than reflect the REAL results.

I dunno. Call me old fashioned, but that just seemed dishonest.

Not only that but they are also dishonest in that their models cannot take the verifiable data that we have, feed it into their equations, and arrive at the climate we have NOW. Yet they continue to insist that their models are reliable to forecast the climate that will exist if we do not employ draconian measures now to curb anthropogenic generated greenhouse emissions.

This is just nuts.