Collective bargaining "rights"??

[Quantum Windbag]

I like the WI DEMS "unique" filibusterer. I think it's hilarious that the best the cons on here can do is call them "pussies".

I also think it's laughable that the governor sent the state police after them.

What can they legally be arrested/detained for? Walker better hope make sure that doesn't happen as it is a clear abuse of power and a violation of the law.

Actually, I think it's perfectly legal, but only within the state. What DeLay did was illegal because he got the FAA to go after the fleeing Dems when it was an internal state matter.

Exactly.

 

[Stephanie]

LOL,

The Project for Social and Economic Equality

Anyone ever heard of them.?


Lets start a group called the Project FOR THE FIRING OF THESE 14 Democrat Senators.

I hope the people of Wisconsin ask they all be RECALLED.

 

[The T]

LOL,

The Project for Social and Economic Equality

Anyone ever heard of them.?


Lets start a group called the Project FOR THE FIRING OF THESE 14 Democrat Senators.

I hope the people of Wisconsin ask they all be RECALLED.

And Jailed.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A filibuster is a proper parliamentary procedure which requires that the elected representatives actually SHOW UP FOR WORK.

This is a silly distinction. Denying a quorum (either through absence or simply refusing to answer a quorum call) has not historically been an uncommon way to delay business in a legislative body that lacks a filibuster. See the "disappearing quorums" common in the U.S. House prior to Czar Reed's tenure as Speaker.

The question is whether obstruction by the minority is acceptable in representative government. And a person's answer to that seems to vary depending on whether or not they're sympathetic to the minority's policy preferences.

How is it silly to point out that one group is following the rules, and the other is breaking them? Is it a silly distinction if you go out and earn money, and I come along and steal it? After all, either way the money gets spent. I do not care who is majority and who is minority, they get paid to be there, even if they do not like the result.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A filibuster is a proper parliamentary procedure which requires that the elected representatives actually SHOW UP FOR WORK.

Denying quorum is a legitimate parliamentary tactic. It's just one you don't like because it's the Democrats.

Again, if the GOP doesn't like it, they are free to wait or compromise.

Is it really? Or is it only legitimate because Democrats are doing it? The Wisconsin Constitution gives the state the power to force attendance, so my guess is that denying a quorum is not as legitimate as you think it is.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You should really do some digging into Walker, the governor in question here. Ask yourself why it is that the public sector unions that supported him are exempt from all of his new restrictions and limitations.

There's quite a few things criminally corrupt here.

I personally support leaving to deny quorum. If the other side refuses to respect the minority, then the minority has to do what is legally within it's power to protect its rights. In this situation, the ability to compel attendance absolutely does not mean that choosing not to attend is against the law.

For the record, if it were reversed, I'd support the GOP senators doing the same. As a moderate, I get really angry at the whole tyranny of the majority thing.

Meeting of legislature. SECTION 11. [As amended Nov.
1881 and April 1968] The legislature shall meet at the seat of
government at such time as shall be provided by law, unless convened
by the governor in special session, and when so convened
no business shall be transacted except as shall be necessary to
accomplish the special purposes for which it was convened.
[1880 J.R. 9S, 1881 J.R. 7A, 1881 c. 262, vote Nov. 1881; 1965
J.R. 57, 1967 J.R. 48, vote April 1968]

When the legislature is in session, legislators are required to be there. According to the constitution at least. But it's just their constitution, it's not like that's the law or anything.

Legislature and Legislators are two different things, much how a lot of the folks in these threads seem intent on making a difference between unions and teachers.

The legislature is required to meet, but no specific penalty or requirement is laid out there for the particular legislator.

For an similar situation, my class is required to meet at the appointed times, but for it to be against the rules for a student not to attend at that time requires additional rules to cover that. And my class meets with or without particular students.

Right now the legislature is meeting in Wisconsin. They just don't have quorum.

Interesting.

Your problem is that legislators who refuse to meet can be compelled to attend. That means that the Wisconsin State Constitution actually recognizes the distinction you point out, and proscribed a remedy for it.

 

[Annie]

Bottom line is that because of the last election, the conservatives have the votes to do something the minority disagrees with. So the minority is trying to spin this as a democracy issue, with protests.

If the majority has it wrong, the minority should show up, vote against it, playing it up big. Wait for the next election cycle, they'll win in a landslide, right?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Let's hear it for big government. Government should tell us if and when workers can negotiate.

 

[jillian]

Let's hear it for big government. Government should tell us if and when workers can negotiate.

you'd prefer they tell you when you can't?

 

[Stephanie]

go Republicans..

SNIP:
Wis. GOP ups pressure on Dems to return and vote

… By RYAN J. FOLEY, Associated Press Ryan J. Foley, Associated Press – 2 hrs 30 mins ago
MADISON, Wis. – Wisconsin Republicans on Sunday upped the pressure on Democrats who fled to Illinois to return home and vote on an anti-union bill, with the governor calling them obstructionists and a GOP lawmaker threatening to convene without them.

Gov. Scott Walker said the 14 minority Democrats who left Madison on Thursday were failing to do their jobs by "hiding out" in another state. And Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said his chamber would meet Tuesday to act on non-spending bills and confirm some of the governor's appointees even if the Democrats don't show up — a scenario that should outrage their constituents.
Senate Democrats acknowledged that the 19 Republicans could pass any item that doesn't spend state money in their absence. The budget-repair bill they have been blocking requires a quorum of 20 senators to pass, while other measures require only a simple majority of the chamber's 33 members.

Nonetheless, Democrats said they were standing firm in their opposition to the budget-repair bill, which would take away the right of most public employees to collectively bargain for their benefits and working conditions. Hundreds of protesters filled the Capitol for a sixth straight day, noisily calling on Walker to drop the plan they consider an assault on workers' rights.

read it all.
Wis. GOP ups pressure on Dems to return and vote - Yahoo! News

 

[Big Fitz]

You are obviously confused. It's you and your pea-green with envy do-nothings that seem to think the purpose of government is to mug other people for your benefit.

I've paid school taxes for decades and never had a kid in school. Who's mugging who? I've paid more taxes than ANYONE in my bracket who has kids, because of the ability of the breeders to take massive tax deductions.

So fuck off.

the breeders??? oh my oh my oh my..

[whisper]psst... Carb sees straight people...[/whisper]

 

[Big Fitz]

She's babbling nonsense.

Go have another deep fried beer you fat drunk.

Quoted so the moron doesn't have a chance to edit.

At this point, NYC has made this thread into a contender for Biggest Meltdown of 2011.

Mr. T is nothing but a babbling drunk troll who has nothing to contribute. He's lucky if he's a drunk,

at least he could sober up and have a fighting chance of making some sense once in a while.

Statist! Statist! Statist! Glug Glug Statist Statist!! Statist!!!!

lol

And the tipping point.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Let's hear it for big government. Government should tell us if and when workers can negotiate.

you'd prefer they tell you when you can't?

Just trying to repeat the gist if the republicans argument. They want big government to tell them what to do.

Heres a thought, instead of saying unions get better benefits than the private sector and pretend that that is a bad thing, why mr ask the private sector to match the unions and everyone can move up the benefits ladder?

 

[EriktheRed]

In a post dated Feb. 16, Tracy Fuller writes, "I am going to make an effort to speak for myself, and every member of the Wisconsin State Patrol when I say this … I specifically regret the endorsement of the Wisconsin Trooper's Association for Gov. Scott Walker. I regret the governor's decision to 'endorse' the troopers and inspectors of the Wisconsin State Patrol. I regret being the recipient of any of the perceived benefits provided by the governor's anointing. I think everyone's job and career is just as significant as the others. Everyone's family is just as valuable as mine or any other persons, especially mine. Everyone's needs are just as valuable. We are all great people!!" The full statement can be found at Wisconsin Law Enforcement Association | State of Wisconsin.

Wis. Law Enforcement Association 'Regrets' Endorsing Walker - Politics News Story - WISC Madison

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I liked it when the Tea Party showed up with signs that said "We were at work yesterday, where the hell were you." Go Tea Party..

At least they got the spelling right......


They can thank those teachers

It's more like they were home schooled than they went to public school

 

[Stanley Pickle]

These clowns need to get their arses back to Wisconsin and debate democratically

 

[Provocateur]

go Republicans..

SNIP:
Wis. GOP ups pressure on Dems to return and vote

… By RYAN J. FOLEY, Associated Press Ryan J. Foley, Associated Press – 2 hrs 30 mins ago
MADISON, Wis. – Wisconsin Republicans on Sunday upped the pressure on Democrats who fled to Illinois to return home and vote on an anti-union bill, with the governor calling them obstructionists and a GOP lawmaker threatening to convene without them.

Gov. Scott Walker said the 14 minority Democrats who left Madison on Thursday were failing to do their jobs by "hiding out" in another state. And Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said his chamber would meet Tuesday to act on non-spending bills and confirm some of the governor's appointees even if the Democrats don't show up — a scenario that should outrage their constituents.
Senate Democrats acknowledged that the 19 Republicans could pass any item that doesn't spend state money in their absence. The budget-repair bill they have been blocking requires a quorum of 20 senators to pass, while other measures require only a simple majority of the chamber's 33 members.

Nonetheless, Democrats said they were standing firm in their opposition to the budget-repair bill, which would take away the right of most public employees to collectively bargain for their benefits and working conditions. Hundreds of protesters filled the Capitol for a sixth straight day, noisily calling on Walker to drop the plan they consider an assault on workers' rights.

read it all.
Wis. GOP ups pressure on Dems to return and vote - Yahoo! News

Hysterical.

They should just line up a whole bunch of bills that they don't want to hear from Dems on.

They should start with Obamacare, and really tweak some liberal minds.

 

[Provocateur]

Is it me, or did the title of this thread change?

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

You're missing the simple fact America has been, up until now anyway, a free nation since the beginning of the labor movement towards the end of the 19th century.

Exactly where in the Constitution are labor unions banned?

Let's see it, slugger.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

There is no "right" to bargain collectively.
The term came from the fact that back in the day, unions could shut down companies by ordering their workers to stay out of work or "strike".
Companies were more or less forced to negotiate with the union that represented the employees.
In a real sense, the relationship between union and company is a business relationship and as such can be terminated upon conclusion of a contract term.
Unfortunately, the relationship between taxpayer and union is administered by the third party, government. The taxpayer has no seat at the bargaining table nor is the taxpayer permitted to simply terminate the relationship. Politicians, make that decision and often that decision is made in the self interest of the politicians. Hence the reason why taxes in civil service collective bargaining states have skyrocketed right along with mounting government debt.

Contrary to popular belief and most certainly in counter to union propaganda, a business is free to tell a union that it no longer wishes to do business with the union.
Union people like to call this" not bargaining good faith"....The bottom line is ,no business owes anything to a union especially it's good faith.

Here's an example.....Continental/General tire plant has very high labor costs. At the end of the union deal management determines the labor costs are non-competitive
and in fact are so high that it may result in the plant being shuttered.
Before negotiations begin, management informs the union brass of the impending closure of the plant if the union does not agree to wage and benefit reductions. The union refuses and in fact demands a wage increase and status quo on benefits. The union told the workers the company was bluffing and to walk off the job. Management in a last ditch effort made it public that unless the concessions were made, the plant was to be closed.
Instead of a pay cut, the workers ended up with no jobs. Brilliant. Of course the union went to the media and screamed about C/G Tire "refusing to bargain in good faith"...
Poppycock.