Collective bargaining "rights"??

[BenNatuf]

Let's hear it for big government. Government should tell us if and when workers can negotiate.

When did unions get the right to compel others to negotiate with them?

oh... right. They didn't.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

When did unions get the right to compel others to negotiate with them?

oh... right. They didn't.

Which articles of or amendments to the US Constitution ban labor unions?

Go for it, brainiac.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

and why did you post the link?

 

[Provocateur]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

You're missing the simple fact America has been, up until now anyway, a free nation since the beginning of the labor movement towards the end of the 19th century.

Exactly where in the Constitution are labor unions banned?

Let's see it, slugger.

Backwards, much?

 

[BenNatuf]

When did unions get the right to compel others to negotiate with them?

oh... right. They didn't.

Which articles of or amendments to the US Constitution ban labor unions?

Go for it, brainiac.

Where did I claim any did? Maybe you should read the thread there Einstein. I've consistantly said the right to form Unions is enshrined in the first amendment, that however does not equate to anyone else having to negotiate with them, or if they do choose to negotiate with them to agree to negotiate on every point the union wants to.

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

I've consistantly said the right to form Unions is enshrined in the first amendment, that however does not equate to anyone else having to negotiate with them, or if they do choose to negotiate with them to agree to negotiate on every point the union wants to.

That's an interesting opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion.

Wassamatta?....can't find an article or amendment banning collective bargaining in the Constitution? Have you even read the doc, or just going on what Ailes or Limbaugh tolja?

If collective bargaining is such an obviously unfounded right, why has it survived since the inception of unions? Don't you get it? - collective bargaining is the main reason to organize into a union to begin with, dullard.

wow

 

[JohnnyApplesack]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

You're missing the simple fact America has been, up until now anyway, a free nation since the beginning of the labor movement towards the end of the 19th century.

Exactly where in the Constitution are labor unions banned?

Let's see it, slugger.

Backwards, much?

Head hit with hammer much? WTF?

 

[shintao]

Just about every headline I have read about the proposed budget changes in Wisconsin mentions Collective Bargaining "rights". I am NOT the sharpest tack in the box, and after extensive Google searches, can find no LAW that stipulates such rights. What am I missing?

AFT-Wisconsin is a labor organization representing 17,000 public employees in the state of Wisconsin. Formerly called the Wisconsin Federation of Teachers (WFT), AFT-Wisconsin is a Wisconsin chapter of the American Federation of Teachers. Started primarily as a teachers' union with 1,400 members in 1931, AFT-Wisconsin has grown exponentially and today represents many diverse professionals with over 500 job classifications.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


freedom of assembly


You can not tell Americans they can not get together and talk.

When they get together and talk they can deside to join forces and stick together to acheive a collective goal.


How anyone can think a group of any Americans can be told who they are allowed to group with is beyond me.

Correct. But freedom of assembly does not compel a business to enter into an agreement with any entity it chooses not to.
Therefore, employees or their agents have no right to force a business to enter into a contract with that or any organization.
Very simple example.....In my former business, the workers at a particular office of a large company decided to certify with a union. The company refused to recognize the union. The employees at that point still were not unionized because the company had no agreement with the union. The company rather than be forced to negotiate with the uninvited suitor, waited until most of the workers either left the company or committed fireable offenses. The union tried to use the media to gain sympathy to no avail. Case closed.
Also, WalMart built a distribution center in Maryland. I think it was the United Food and Commercial Workers Union which moved in and tried to certify the Center. WalMart closed the Center and built another in a nearby right to work state.
The point is unions are powerless to force a business to enter into an agreement since it is the business and not the workers that "own" the jobs.

Unions had better watch their step. With all the out of work people , unions cannot expect open positions left by union workers to remain open. And businesses know this. They will simply hire replacement workers at a much lower cost.
More logic...Many US based auto plants pay near or above union scale wages to keep unions out. benefit packages are the key. The workers share a much larger portion of the health insurance premiums and instead of defined benefit pensions which are very expensive, workers are enrolled in 401k plans with matching company contributions.In effect, the employees then have a vested interest in seeing the company succeed.

 

[BenNatuf]

I've consistantly said the right to form Unions is enshrined in the first amendment, that however does not equate to anyone else having to negotiate with them, or if they do choose to negotiate with them to agree to negotiate on every point the union wants to.

That's an interesting opinion, but that's all it is - an opinion.

LOL... no "braniac" its what is. No-one can be compelled to negotiate with anyone let a lone a labor union.

Wassamatta?....can't find an article or amendment banning collective bargaining in the Constitution? Have you even read the doc, or just going on what Ailes or Limbaugh tolja?

Once again, find anywhere where i've claimed it does... ooops, not gonna be able to.

If collective bargaining is such an obviously unfounded right, why has it survived since the inception of unions? Don't you get it? - collective bargaining is the main reason to organize into a union to begin with, dullard.

wow

dullard? Thats funny coming from someone who's so wrong. You can form any union you want, that is not at issue. You can form it for the express purpose of collective bargaining, it is you're right, also not at issue. What you can't do is compel anyione else to bargain with you. You can strike, picket, protest and do any number of things to attempt to coerce them into doing so, but the bottom line is if they don't want to negotiate with you, they don't have to. Go find anywhere in the constituion where it says anyone MUST bargain with a collective. ooops, it doesn't.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


freedom of assembly


You can not tell Americans they can not get together and talk.

When they get together and talk they can deside to join forces and stick together to acheive a collective goal.


How anyone can think a group of any Americans can be told who they are allowed to group with is beyond me.

Agreed. Americans have the right to protest, and protest as a collective group if they wish.

But their employers also have a right to fire them for insubordination and replace them with employees (not "workers") who will do the job for what is being offered as compensation.

I have a feeling a lot of WI teachers are gonna be fired because the union will get it's way. The collective greed sacrificing the entire career of a few to prevent them from having to give up just a little bit more each as a group. Liberalism at it's best.

And under the constitution the people have the right to ban together and talk about how they will collectively bargan with their employer.

If the employer finds it better to fire them all and lose their expertice at the job and face losing money because they can not hire, train and get back to past production levels in a short enough period of time to save their company than fine.

They may also face the fact that no employee is going to want to work for a company who will fire everyone for wanting a raise.

That may have been conventional wisdom a few decades ago. However this logic no longer applies. Especially in light of the general dislike of unions by the majority and of course in our weak economy with many good people out of work, unions should take care in presenting their public image.
To that end, union people would easily be replaced with people who are eager and ready to fill these jobs you believe are irreplaceable.
At this juncture no one is irreplaceable. Unions should be mindful of this.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The people have the right to meet together and act in unison.

You can NEVER take that away without trashing the first amendment

hardly the point....In fact, this is off topic...
The issue here is the fact that a business cannot be compelled to enter into nor negotiate any agreement or contract.
Therefore there is no right to collective bargaining.
Example...
The XYZ company has 100 employees..... The employees seek the assistance of a labor union to represent them. The union agrees. The union management seeing an opportunity to increase it's revenue by acquiring new members must now go to the XYZ owners to seek a contract to represent the employees. The union names it's terms. Uninterested in having an intermediary between the management and it's employees, the company declines to speak with the union, essentially saying "thanks, but no thanks. We wish you well in all your future endeavors".
Case closed. Life goes on......

 

[thereisnospoon]

And then they will have to replace them.

Who will they hire and who will want to work for an employer who will fire them for being Americnas

They weren't fired for "being Americans"...The government did not act capriciously.
The students were simply transferred to other nearby schools.
A plan was in place before the staff was terminated.
Done.

 

[geauxtohell]

I like the WI DEMS "unique" filibusterer. I think it's hilarious that the best the cons on here can do is call them "pussies".

I also think it's laughable that the governor sent the state police after them.

What can they legally be arrested/detained for? Walker better hope make sure that doesn't happen as it is a clear abuse of power and a violation of the law.

How about not showing up for work when they are being paid by the taxpayer. You know that money that all liberals voluntarily gives every year because they feel government knows how to spend money better than them. Oh wait thats not what tax dollars are.

Is that an illegal activity?

 

[geauxtohell]

I like the WI DEMS "unique" filibusterer. I think it's hilarious that the best the cons on here can do is call them "pussies".

I also think it's laughable that the governor sent the state police after them.

What can they legally be arrested/detained for? Walker better hope make sure that doesn't happen as it is a clear abuse of power and a violation of the law.

They ARE pussies. Run away, brave Sir Robin. Bravely run away!

You only "like" this so-called variant on a "filibuster" because it's a bunch of pussy libbies doing the running. If the roles were reversed, and a bunch of GOP stalwarts were running away from the legislature to prevent the hypothetical liberal Democrat majority from cramming some other fucking mess down the throats of the people, you'd be expressing outwage! So would all the libbies.

So.

Was it legal for the governor to send the state troopers after them? I thought a person had to break the law in order to be detained.

 

[geauxtohell]

Democracy is only supported by deomcrats if it results in what democrats want I guess. Why did they even bother having elections in Wisconsin is my question?

The Govenor should fire these senators for not doing their job and send these LOSERS on the protest line with the teachers.

The Governor has the latitude to fire Senators?

No wonder you guys are confused.

 

[geauxtohell]

Hey. Does anyone remember when the Republican revolution shut down the government to get it's way?

Fun times.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And then they will have to replace them.

Who will they hire and who will want to work for an employer who will fire them for being Americnas

Well, with unemployment still at around 9%, and NY getting ready to layoff about 6,000 teachers, I have to believe there will be plenty of resumes submitted. Not to mention, WI won't have to spend $90K annually on the new breed.

They dont pay them that now.

Thats a right wing lie.

BTW do you think people with bachlors degress and teaching cridentials grow on trees?

Here's a searchable database ....DataMine: Search Wisconsin state employee salaries | postcrescent.com | Appleton Post Crescent.

You'll find that most veteran FULL TIME teachers make in excess of $70,000 not including benefits.
No educated people do not grown on trees.
However given the current employment numbers combined with the number of college students earning degrees each year who flood the job marketplace the chances of many many people currently looking for teaching jobs is immense.
Do not ever try to convince yourself of any worker's irreplaceability. Because that concept is no based in reality.

 

[Stephanie]

Hey. Does anyone remember when the Republican revolution shut down the government to get it's way?

Fun times.

How fun was it?

 

[bucs90]

But Republicans are right, libs are wrong. So screw it. I'm not trying to be fair, I'm trying to be right.