Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Rustic]

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

 

[OnePercenter]

Well said. They're driving the Middle Class out. California will be left with only the very rich and the very poor. Without that massive Middle Class tax revenue, the state will collapse. The Communists are dooming California.

Another big industry in California is agriculture and the Liberals are even fucking that up. Remember last year when the environmental wackos were cutting off water supplies to the Imperial Valley to protect some stupid fish?

Liberals screw up everything they touch.

California's agriculture industry is $46B strong. How is that being "fucked-up?"

Lol
Run by conservatives..
Those rural counties in California vote conservative... dumbass

Those conservatives that hire illegal aliens.

Those conservatives that hire illegal aliens.

Build the wall, deport all the illegals and screw those conservatives.

You know you want to do it.......

Raid businesses and throw the conservatives in jail. You've saved the cost of the wall.

 

[Rustic]

You forgot to factor rate increases for power. Also, if you attach it to a home mortgage the monthly payments are much less.

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

You cut that at least by half... dumbass

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You forgot to factor rate increases for power. Also, if you attach it to a home mortgage the monthly payments are much less.

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

25 to 30 years? You have a link for that?

It's really about up front costs. Writing a check for "whatever" is money people have better uses for. Even if you could prove you'd save a few bucks, how much would you have profited if you put that money in a conservative growth account for 30 years? I guarantee that you'd find a huge loss in the comparison.

Sort of like when you said it would only cost 20 bucks a month if you included it in your mortgage. Okay, but what if you put that 20K as part of your down payment and to hell with solar? I guarantee that you'd save much more money on your home loan.

 

[Rustic]

If alternative energy was so great, everyone would be scrambling for it.
Obviously that’s not the case, it’s decades away from being affordable reliable and viable

 

[AntonToo]

Haven't you shit your pants enough in one thread?

Haven't you proven you are a stupid Moon Bat enough in this thread?

"Incentives" ,"subsidizes" etc are another form of welfare. If an idiot says that solar panels are economical because somebody else is paying for it then they are lying, aren't they?

I paid for my solar system up front and will get tax-cuts - something that you righties describe as government letting me keep more of my money, so I can spend it into economy.

So given that, can you say at which point anyone but me is paying for my solar panels?


I'll go get the popcorn, this should be good

That is a lie.

The government spend just as much money with or without filthy ass subsidies.

That means somebody else pays the money that would have been paid in tax. Either through revenue or debt.

Kind of like when that asshole Obama gave Solyndrda a half billion in subsidies he went in debt with the Federal government that year meaning our children will have to pay back the subsidy. The same damn thing with your stupid subsidy. All subsidies, either direct payment or though tax reduction, are a form of welfare.

The study of Economics is not a Moon Bat's strong suit, is it?

Your idiotic solar panels is nothing more than a tax on Moon Bat ignorance with a little welfare thrown in.

I love to see you stupid Moon Bats being taxed for being idiots.

.... when Bush or Trump pass tax-cuts, righties tell us that’s people and corporations getting to keep more of their money to better grow economy so that the revenue loss is made up.

But according to the same rightwingers when someone gets to keep more of their money because they bought a solar system....that needs to be paid for by someone else?

I don’t see you actually addressing that contradiction. Want to try again?

.... when Bush or Trump pass tax-cuts, righties tell us that’s people and corporations getting to keep more of their money

An across the board tax cut is not the same as a subsidy provided for a specific behavior.

Substantive difference being WHAT exactly?

I got to keep more of my money so I could spend it into economy - what is the tax-cut-magic killing difference?

 

[OnePercenter]

Absolutely. One of the things most buyers look for in a home is future expenses. How good are the windows? How old is the furnace or AC? How old is the roof and things like that.

So in the future, a couple looks at a house with 30 year old solar panels. The first thing that would cross my mind is how many of those I'm going to have to replace in the next ten years. Or if allowed by law, how much is it going to cost me to have those things removed and have a regular roof installed?

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat. The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television. Those items sold themselves because everybody wanted them and were willing to pay for it.

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat.

You get to take advantage of volume discounts and save a ton of cash!

The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television.

The government DID subsidize what makes them work. The marketing companies forced you to buy them.

 

[Rustic]

Crazy Cali can do what they want, I don’t give two shits.
They are ones slitting their own throats, the collective has zero regard for the individual...
Anyway, nothing good can come from forced soo called betterment...

 

[OnePercenter]

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

If they want to save money, and think solar panels are the way to do that, then they will.
No government mandate needed.

But you can't get the volume discount.

 

[Rustic]

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat. The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television. Those items sold themselves because everybody wanted them and were willing to pay for it.

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat.

You get to take advantage of volume discounts and save a ton of cash!

The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television.

The government DID subsidize what makes them work. The marketing companies forced you to buy them.

Not really, the free market is much better at determining than the federal government what is best for the individual...
In fact the federal government hates the individual...

 

[OnePercenter]

Well said. They're driving the Middle Class out. California will be left with only the very rich and the very poor. Without that massive Middle Class tax revenue, the state will collapse. The Communists are dooming California.

As you know, and know well, the rich are leaving in droves. They are sick of paying for the homeless who are invited to their state by their local governments for their votes.

The great state of California has massive problems and seem to be doing everything possible to exacerbate the problem rather than even attempt solutions.

The rich aren't leaving California in droves, they're establishing tax shelters. Chumps tax.

Yeah, right!

Packing up and moving out: People are leaving California in droves, including some High Desert residents
By Rene Ray De La Cruz
Staff Writer
Posted Feb 3, 2018 at 7:00 AMUpdated Feb 5, 2018 at 2:40 PM

[...]

The Golden State continues to rank No. 1 as the state that has waved goodbye to more residents, about 143,000 last year, than welcomed those who have moved here, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report.

[...]

“California is just getting too expensive and the crime in the High Desert is getting worse by the day,” He said. “I think the last straw for us is when (Gov.) Jerry Brown came out with his new fuel taxes and car registration fees.”

[...]

“Prop. 47 made a huge impact in our area and people are feeling uncomfortable and unsafe because crime is going up,” Sanchez said. “It’s unsettling to hear that someone was murdered last night, but in reality, this is still a very safe area compared to many places in California.”

Passed by California voters in Nov 2014, Prop.47 reduces certain drug possession felonies to misdemeanors. It also requires misdemeanor sentencing for petty theft, receiving stolen property and forging/writing bad checks when the amount involved is $950 or less.

San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said in 2017 that violent crime had risen over 20 percent in the High Desert since just a year earlier, the Daily Press reported.

[...]

Packing up and moving out: People are leaving California in droves, including some High Desert residents

California lost 0.004% in population? WOW!!!!

If you want less crime, provide more and better paying jobs.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

 

[Rustic]

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

If they want to save money, and think solar panels are the way to do that, then they will.
No government mandate needed.

But you can't get the volume discount.

It has to be a quality product for it to of any value, volume discount or not.
Is it the government that selects the product? If so... fuck that.
There many, many reason why someone building a new house would not want solar panels on it. Who is the government to what is best for anyone or anything?

 

[Rustic]

Well said. They're driving the Middle Class out. California will be left with only the very rich and the very poor. Without that massive Middle Class tax revenue, the state will collapse. The Communists are dooming California.

As you know, and know well, the rich are leaving in droves. They are sick of paying for the homeless who are invited to their state by their local governments for their votes.

The great state of California has massive problems and seem to be doing everything possible to exacerbate the problem rather than even attempt solutions.

The rich aren't leaving California in droves, they're establishing tax shelters. Chumps tax.

Yeah, right!

Packing up and moving out: People are leaving California in droves, including some High Desert residents
By Rene Ray De La Cruz
Staff Writer
Posted Feb 3, 2018 at 7:00 AMUpdated Feb 5, 2018 at 2:40 PM

[...]

The Golden State continues to rank No. 1 as the state that has waved goodbye to more residents, about 143,000 last year, than welcomed those who have moved here, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report.

[...]

“California is just getting too expensive and the crime in the High Desert is getting worse by the day,” He said. “I think the last straw for us is when (Gov.) Jerry Brown came out with his new fuel taxes and car registration fees.”

[...]

“Prop. 47 made a huge impact in our area and people are feeling uncomfortable and unsafe because crime is going up,” Sanchez said. “It’s unsettling to hear that someone was murdered last night, but in reality, this is still a very safe area compared to many places in California.”

Passed by California voters in Nov 2014, Prop.47 reduces certain drug possession felonies to misdemeanors. It also requires misdemeanor sentencing for petty theft, receiving stolen property and forging/writing bad checks when the amount involved is $950 or less.

San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said in 2017 that violent crime had risen over 20 percent in the High Desert since just a year earlier, the Daily Press reported.

[...]

Packing up and moving out: People are leaving California in droves, including some High Desert residents

California lost 0.004% in population? WOW!!!!

If you want less crime, provide more and better paying jobs.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 10 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

...and under your plan small business would fold overnight

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat. The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television. Those items sold themselves because everybody wanted them and were willing to pay for it.

If there were any truth to that, you wouldn't need government shoving it down your throat.

You get to take advantage of volume discounts and save a ton of cash!

The government never forced us or subsidized us to use cell phones, video game systems, cable or satellite television.

The government DID subsidize what makes them work. The marketing companies forced you to buy them.

How could marketing companies force you to buy anything? People wanted these items because they were an advantage to them unlike forcing people to buy solar panels. When cell phones first started to become popular, they were heavy, bulky, and didn't have many places you could use them. They were also very expensive to use. However because of their popularity, that's where the advances came to play. More and more people willingly singed on to these services and technology took over from there. Today, just about nobody can do without a cell phone. Hell, we even give them free to our lowlifes with no job.

 

[OnePercenter]

Why don't you remove the personal information and post your bill INCLUDING your yearly energy usage.

For what, to make you happy? Why would I lie about something like that? My electric bill has been as low as $35.00 and as high as $70.00. In the fall and spring when I don't use my furnace or AC, it's about $40.00. When I use the furnace extensively or AC it's about $65.00. However up north, I typically use AC between June and August. I don't have central. I use a window AC in my living room and I have one in my bedroom, but the one in my bedroom I only use about three to four times a season.

Your electric usage is less than 50% of the State average. That's an amazing feat! I'd be showing everyone I could!

You don't have central air and heat? You do know it's 2018?

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

 

[OnePercenter]

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

Make an argument that saving on monthly expenditures ISN'T GOOD.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

Make an argument that saving on monthly expenditures ISN'T GOOD.

It isn't good when it actually costs you more in the long run.

 

[Rustic]

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

Make an argument that saving on monthly expenditures ISN'T GOOD.

There no proof to what you say, And no one cannot take the governments word for it.

 

[OnePercenter]

You forgot to factor rate increases for power. Also, if you attach it to a home mortgage the monthly payments are much less.

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

You cut that at least by half... dumbass

You do know you are debating with a poster that owns a business that uses solar.....right? Quit making your short bus shorter.

 

[Flopper]

Absolutely. One of the things most buyers look for in a home is future expenses. How good are the windows? How old is the furnace or AC? How old is the roof and things like that.

So in the future, a couple looks at a house with 30 year old solar panels. The first thing that would cross my mind is how many of those I'm going to have to replace in the next ten years. Or if allowed by law, how much is it going to cost me to have those things removed and have a regular roof installed?

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Because their would be no funds to pay for national defense, emergency aid for national disasters, public health, 911, veterans benefits, police and fire protection, parks and recreation, public education, and a thousands other services of local, state, and federal agencies. People only spend money on what they know will directly benefit themselves. The only thing that makes people pay taxes is the law.