Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Ray From Cleveland]

For what, to make you happy? Why would I lie about something like that? My electric bill has been as low as $35.00 and as high as $70.00. In the fall and spring when I don't use my furnace or AC, it's about $40.00. When I use the furnace extensively or AC it's about $65.00. However up north, I typically use AC between June and August. I don't have central. I use a window AC in my living room and I have one in my bedroom, but the one in my bedroom I only use about three to four times a season.

Your electric usage is less than 50% of the State average. That's an amazing feat! I'd be showing everyone I could!

You don't have central air and heat? You do know it's 2018?

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

 

[OnePercenter]

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

Make an argument that saving on monthly expenditures ISN'T GOOD.

There no proof to what you say, And no one cannot take the governments word for it.

You're now asking me to debate with stupid. Sorry, I don't do that.

 

[Rustic]

You forgot to factor rate increases for power. Also, if you attach it to a home mortgage the monthly payments are much less.

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

You cut that at least by half... dumbass

You do know you are debating with a poster that owns a business that uses solar.....right? Quit making your short bus shorter.

Maybe it works for you or most likely you are telling yourself that.
What about the people that want nothing to do with it in any form? Why should they be forced into a Situation that will not benefit them in the least? The government never thinks long-term...

 

[Rustic]

If a house has a 30-year-old solar system on the roof, it is almost certain to need a new ROOF soon.

In the late 70's, my Father had solar water heating installed for the pool and the house. That part of the roof that was under the panels looked brand new. Kinda like your farmers tan.

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Because their would be no funds to pay for national defense, emergency aid for national disasters, public health, 911, veterans benefits, police and fire protection, parks and recreation, public education, and a thousands other services of local, state, and federal agencies. People only spend money on what they know will directly benefit themselves. The only thing that makes people pay taxes is the law.

Excuses, The collective only works for the collective... The individual is always left out

 

[Rustic]

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Are you that dense?
Just because progressive say it’s a good thing does not mean it is, in fact most times it’s a horrible thing,

Make an argument that saving on monthly expenditures ISN'T GOOD.

There no proof to what you say, And no one cannot take the governments word for it.

You're now asking me to debate with stupid. Sorry, I don't do that.

Says a control freak

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You forgot to factor rate increases for power. Also, if you attach it to a home mortgage the monthly payments are much less.

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

You cut that at least by half... dumbass

You do know you are debating with a poster that owns a business that uses solar.....right? Quit making your short bus shorter.

Maybe it works for you or most likely you are telling yourself that.
What about the people that want nothing to do with it in any form? Why should they be forced into a Situation that will not benefit them in the least? The government never thinks long-term...

If you have a home or a business that uses alternative fuel, good for you. But nobody is saving any money and in fact, spending much more than they otherwise would have with conventional sources. You are using alternatives because it makes you feel better about yourself and your carbon footprint.

And that's fine when it's an individual decision. But when government makes that decision for you, it's plain wrong. If your representative(s) believe in GW, then let them install panels, windmills and garage sized batteries in their homes. Just don't make others do the same thing because of your personal beliefs.

 

[Flopper]

If alternative energy was so great, everyone would be scrambling for it.
Obviously that’s not the case, it’s decades away from being affordable reliable and viable

The affordability reliability and viability depends on the volume of sales. When the demand is high enough, completion will reduce prices and improve reliability and viability.

 

[OnePercenter]

Your electric usage is less than 50% of the State average. That's an amazing feat! I'd be showing everyone I could!

You don't have central air and heat? You do know it's 2018?

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today.

"Most everybody" is woefully underpaid. (A Republican objective)

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

You're a victim of conservatism, as is most employees today.

 

[Rustic]

If alternative energy was so great, everyone would be scrambling for it.
Obviously that’s not the case, it’s decades away from being affordable reliable and viable

The affordability reliability and viability depends on the volume of sales. When the demand is high enough, completion will reduce prices and improve reliability and viability.

That is true, but it is still decades away...

 

[Flopper]

Your electric usage is less than 50% of the State average. That's an amazing feat! I'd be showing everyone I could!

You don't have central air and heat? You do know it's 2018?

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

The same is true for most democrats. The actual difference between people that vote democrat and republican is not as wide as you might think. Most of the differences is nothing but stereotyping.

 

[Rustic]

Yes, the monthly payments are much less and the total paid, with the interest, is much, much more. What is the effective life of a solar system? Thirty years as is your mortgage? NO!

Like all improvements someone can add to a house, some are cost-effective while others are for your own pleasure. A prime example, in our area (North Florida) you may spend $30,000. to install a swimming pool. When you sell, that pool will add $10,000 MAYBE $20,000 to what your house would have sold for without the pool.

It doesn't matter what effective life, the fact you are saving every month. Over the course of thirty years, even if you have to replace components you'll still be ahead. Remember, your power bill today will be 30% higher in ten years.

Most components for solar today have a 25 to 30 year manufactures warranty.

You cut that at least by half... dumbass

You do know you are debating with a poster that owns a business that uses solar.....right? Quit making your short bus shorter.

Maybe it works for you or most likely you are telling yourself that.
What about the people that want nothing to do with it in any form? Why should they be forced into a Situation that will not benefit them in the least? The government never thinks long-term...

If you have a home or a business that uses alternative fuel, good for you. But nobody is saving any money and in fact, spending much more than they otherwise would have with conventional sources. You are using alternatives because it makes you feel better about yourself and your carbon footprint.

And that's fine when it's an individual decision. But when government makes that decision for you, it's plain wrong. If your representative(s) believe in GW, then let them install panels, windmills and garage sized batteries in their homes. Just don't make others do the same thing because of your personal beliefs.

True, the Collective has no good intentions

 

[Rustic]

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today.

"Most everybody" is woefully underpaid. (A Republican objective)

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

You're a victim of conservatism, as is most employees today.

Most people are paid what they are worth... fact

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

The same is true for most democrats. The actually difference between people that vote democrat and republican is not as wide as you might think. Most of the differences is nothing but stereotyping.

Stereotyping is true only to a certain degree. But to say all Republicans are rich white people is ridiculous. Hillary outspent Trump almost three to one last election. She collected record amounts of contributions, and I seriously doubt she broke contribution records because of the homeless.

There are plenty of rich white Democrats as well. Most of Hollywood for one. Then there are individuals like Soros, the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and many others who have supported the Democrat party for decades.

The left is constantly telling us that Republicans live in the sticks riding around in pickup trucks with a gun rack in the back. They cling to that and their Bible.

 

[my2¢]

Communist California? Perhaps, but I also wouldn't put this past being a capitalistic plot by SolarCity and Elon Musk.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I never said I didn't have heat. I said I don't have central air. Speaking of which, my budget for natural gas is about the same--$50.00 a month or less.

I don't think it's all that amazing. What I am told (and I never did the research) is our electric costs are higher than most of the nation. Although I live upstairs in a two family home, the main draws of electricity which is anything with a motor is about the same as any whole house. Lights are almost pennies. So that leaves me with my fridge, AC, furnace, washer and dryer, and oh yes, my 80" television which I don't know the electricity costs of.

The only advantage I do have with living upstairs of a double is natural gas. The downstairs apartment usually keeps my apartment pretty warm, so when I go to work, I just shut the furnace off until I get home, and even in the coldest weather, it never goes below 53 degrees.

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today.

"Most everybody" is woefully underpaid. (A Republican objective)

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

You're a victim of conservatism, as is most employees today.

On one hand you claim to be this rich guy, but on the other, you demonstrate you have no clue about real business.

You can't pay workers to produce products or services customers can get cheaper somewhere else. If you have a floor sweeper and pay him or her 25 bucks an hour, your competition that pays their floor sweepers 10 bucks an hour is going to bury you in competition.

The fact of the matter is it's the consumer that sets the pay scale for American workers, and in the past several decades, the consumer demands cheap priced products regardless of the quality or origin.

You people are always barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Flopper]

Fifty-three degrees? Are you kidding? Now I can believe you electric bill is more than 50% of the Ohio State average. You are now the official poster child for CHEAP!

OBTW; Your 80" TV had a label which you removed that documented energy usage.

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

The same is true for most democrats. The actually difference between people that vote democrat and republican is not as wide as you might think. Most of the differences is nothing but stereotyping.

Stereotyping is true only to a certain degree. But to say all Republicans are rich white people is ridiculous. Hillary outspent Trump almost three to one last election. She collected record amounts of contributions, and I seriously doubt she broke contribution records because of the homeless.

There are plenty of rich white Democrats as well. Most of Hollywood for one. Then there are individuals like Soros, the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and many others who have supported the Democrat party for decades.

The left is constantly telling us that Republicans live in the sticks riding around in pickup trucks with a gun rack in the back. They cling to that and their Bible.

What your saying is stereotypes are not representative of either party. If that's the case then why can't we find common ground? IMHO, this is the key to bringing America together and actually creating the kind of environment that we all really want.

I have many friends and acquaintances on both sides of the fence. Even when we discuss very decisive issues such as immigration, most democrats don't want open boards and most republicans don't want mass deportations.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, actually I didn't care very much and still don't. I'll pay "whatever" for the things I really like.

So what's wrong with not using heat while you're away from home? Everybody up north does it. Once I turn the furnace back on, it only takes about 15 minutes for it to get comfortable again and about a half-hour to reach the temperature I set it to which is usually 68 degree; 71 when it's extremely cold such as single digits or low teens.

You see, we conservatives are conservative with everything.

You don't care which is VERY telling.

A true conservative is a rich old usually white guy that would fuck-over anyone to make more money. Middle-class conservatives are just cheap.

Most everybody in the US is cheap today. Why do you think we don't buy our own products here?

If you think that all Republicans are rich old white dudes, that tells me your extremely limited knowledge of politics. It wouldn't even be a viable party today if that were the case. Republicans come from all walks of life including many in the middle-class who happened to vote for Trump. I'm very conservative, but I'm your average middle-class citizen.

The same is true for most democrats. The actually difference between people that vote democrat and republican is not as wide as you might think. Most of the differences is nothing but stereotyping.

Stereotyping is true only to a certain degree. But to say all Republicans are rich white people is ridiculous. Hillary outspent Trump almost three to one last election. She collected record amounts of contributions, and I seriously doubt she broke contribution records because of the homeless.

There are plenty of rich white Democrats as well. Most of Hollywood for one. Then there are individuals like Soros, the late Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and many others who have supported the Democrat party for decades.

The left is constantly telling us that Republicans live in the sticks riding around in pickup trucks with a gun rack in the back. They cling to that and their Bible.

What your saying is stereotypes are not representative of either party. If that's the case then why can't we find common ground? IMHO, this is the key to bringing America together and actually creating the kind of environment that we all really want.

I have many friends and acquaintances on both sides of the fence. Even when we discuss very decisive issues such as immigration, most democrats don't want open boards and most republicans don't want mass deportations.

Okay, but isn't it true they support a party that does want open borders and such strict gun control that just about nobody would be able to own one?

The left keeps going further left every election. For crying out loud, an admitted Socialist almost won the presidential nomination, and many believe he would have if not for rigging of the election.

The right is trying to move towards constitutionalism while the the lefts last three presidential nominees (and Sanders) had the full support of the US Communist Party.

So where is the middle ground between constitutionalism and communism? There isn't any.

On the right, we told the RNC we've had it with their bullshit. We elected an outsider like Trump. It's about time the left does the same instead of marching in lockstep. Only then will we ever see the slightest hint at middle ground. It's time we elect people that are going to do what's best for the country instead of what's best for the party. Please read my sig.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Another big industry in California is agriculture and the Liberals are even fucking that up. Remember last year when the environmental wackos were cutting off water supplies to the Imperial Valley to protect some stupid fish?

Liberals screw up everything they touch.

California's agriculture industry is $46B strong. How is that being "fucked-up?"

Lol
Run by conservatives..
Those rural counties in California vote conservative... dumbass

Those conservatives that hire illegal aliens.

Those conservatives that hire illegal aliens.

Build the wall, deport all the illegals and screw those conservatives.

You know you want to do it.......

Raid businesses and throw the conservatives in jail. You've saved the cost of the wall.

You'd still have to deport the illegals.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Haven't you proven you are a stupid Moon Bat enough in this thread?

"Incentives" ,"subsidizes" etc are another form of welfare. If an idiot says that solar panels are economical because somebody else is paying for it then they are lying, aren't they?

I paid for my solar system up front and will get tax-cuts - something that you righties describe as government letting me keep more of my money, so I can spend it into economy.

So given that, can you say at which point anyone but me is paying for my solar panels?


I'll go get the popcorn, this should be good

That is a lie.

The government spend just as much money with or without filthy ass subsidies.

That means somebody else pays the money that would have been paid in tax. Either through revenue or debt.

Kind of like when that asshole Obama gave Solyndrda a half billion in subsidies he went in debt with the Federal government that year meaning our children will have to pay back the subsidy. The same damn thing with your stupid subsidy. All subsidies, either direct payment or though tax reduction, are a form of welfare.

The study of Economics is not a Moon Bat's strong suit, is it?

Your idiotic solar panels is nothing more than a tax on Moon Bat ignorance with a little welfare thrown in.

I love to see you stupid Moon Bats being taxed for being idiots.

.... when Bush or Trump pass tax-cuts, righties tell us that’s people and corporations getting to keep more of their money to better grow economy so that the revenue loss is made up.

But according to the same rightwingers when someone gets to keep more of their money because they bought a solar system....that needs to be paid for by someone else?

I don’t see you actually addressing that contradiction. Want to try again?

.... when Bush or Trump pass tax-cuts, righties tell us that’s people and corporations getting to keep more of their money

An across the board tax cut is not the same as a subsidy provided for a specific behavior.

Substantive difference being WHAT exactly?

I got to keep more of my money so I could spend it into economy - what is the tax-cut-magic killing difference?

Substantive difference being WHAT exactly?

I don't have to buy a stupid solar installation, I can buy useful things instead.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You’re missing the point, No one’s against alternative energy. But everyone’s against being forced into alternative energy. People that want to force people into alternative energy are fucking cowards and should be treated as such...

Yah that's right, California is forcing new home buyers to pay $80.00 - $200.00mo. less in electric utility costs. Those "fucking cowards."

Why force people into something they want nothing to do with?

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

Make the argument that consumers don't want to save money.

If they want to save money, and think solar panels are the way to do that, then they will.
No government mandate needed.

But you can't get the volume discount.

Link?