Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

Well we haven't been at full employment the last 30 years or so.

So you're saying there's a labor shortage then?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

 

[Redfish]

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

high school kids needing part time jobs, able bodied people on welfare, ghetto kids who have dropped out of school. AND legal foreign workers here on LEGAL green cards.

So you're forcing them to work then? You'd force them to relocate to fill these jobs?
More small govt solutions.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

Post your proof or go away.

Do Solar Panels Use More Energy Than They Generate? - Networx

"They specifically delved into what's known as "payback": how many years of operation does it take for a solar panel to generate as much energy as was used in its manufacture? They found that depending on the technology used, it takes between one and four years for solar panels to earn out on their energy debt. Consider that most panels are projected to last between 20 and 25 years with proper maintenance and normal use, and you can see that there's a net energy gain here that's rather significant."

 

[HappyJoy]

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

I will have broken even on my system in about 4-6 years. Without the tax rebate I'd be looking at 7-8 years. I have also increased the value of my home.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

Well we haven't been at full employment the last 30 years or so.

So you're saying there's a labor shortage then?

Where did you get that from? I said we haven't been at full employment since the illegals have been here. They've been here when jobs were scarce taking our work.

 

[Redfish]

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

wrong that 5% statistic means that 95% of the people who want to work have a job. note "who want to work". The actual unemployment rate is more like 20% when you consider retired people, students, people with physical and mental handicaps, high school drop outs hanging out on the street corners, and those who are just plain too lazy to work.

 

[Redfish]

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

I will have broken even on my system in about 4-6 years. Without the tax rebate I'd be looking at 7-8 years. I have also increased the value of my home.

I'm happy that you believe that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

Well we haven't been at full employment the last 30 years or so.

So you're saying there's a labor shortage then?

Where did you get that from? I said we haven't been at full employment since the illegals have been here. They've been here when jobs were scarce taking our work.

Full employment has never meant 0%.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

wrong that 5% statistic means that 95% of the people who want to work have a job. note "who want to work". The actual unemployment rate is more like 20% when you consider retired people, students, people with physical and mental handicaps, high school drop outs hanging out on the street corners, and those who are just plain too lazy to work.

The employment rate is a measure of those in or who wish to be in the labor market.
It's not and has never been a measure of all able bodied Americans who could work.

5% is considered full as there is always a percentage between jobs for one reason or another at any given time.

 

[HappyJoy]

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

I will have broken even on my system in about 4-6 years. Without the tax rebate I'd be looking at 7-8 years. I have also increased the value of my home.

I'm happy that you believe that.

It's not a belief, it's reality. I've compared my utility bills before my system was set up and I've seen my monthly savings and done the math. You're kind of the one coming from a place of ignorance, not me.

 

[Redfish]

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.

you are a victim of left wing propaganda, if that is true, why does the government have to subsidize the solar industry at every step of the process and then subsidize the homeowner to get him to buy them?

I will have broken even on my system in about 4-6 years. Without the tax rebate I'd be looking at 7-8 years. I have also increased the value of my home.

I'm happy that you believe that.

It's not a belief, it's reality. I've compared my utility bills before my system was set up and I've seen my monthly savings and done the math. You're kind of the one coming from a place of ignorance, not me.

OK, great. I live in south Louisiana where we have lots of sunshine most of the year. Several of my neighbors have solar systems and not one of them has had that kind of result. Now, to be fair, with the federal and state subsidies they were almost free, but someone paid the entire bill ------------------guess who? you and me, and every other American taxpayer.

If solar was financially viable, there would be no need for subsidies, because the profit motive would put them on the market at competitive prices. That's my only point here

 

[Redfish]

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

wrong that 5% statistic means that 95% of the people who want to work have a job. note "who want to work". The actual unemployment rate is more like 20% when you consider retired people, students, people with physical and mental handicaps, high school drop outs hanging out on the street corners, and those who are just plain too lazy to work.

The employment rate is a measure of those in or who wish to be in the labor market.
It's not and has never been a measure of all able bodied Americans who could work.

5% is considered full as there is always a percentage between jobs for one reason or another at any given time.

once again, you are buying into the propaganda. your choice.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

wrong that 5% statistic means that 95% of the people who want to work have a job. note "who want to work". The actual unemployment rate is more like 20% when you consider retired people, students, people with physical and mental handicaps, high school drop outs hanging out on the street corners, and those who are just plain too lazy to work.

The employment rate is a measure of those in or who wish to be in the labor market.
It's not and has never been a measure of all able bodied Americans who could work.

5% is considered full as there is always a percentage between jobs for one reason or another at any given time.

once again, you are buying into the propaganda. your choice.

Once again, I say, post your proof or fuck off.
I gave you a link. You've given nothing.

It's known what the output of a panel is over it's lifetime. You need to find the power cost of production for that panel and compare.

 

[danielpalos]

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

Well we haven't been at full employment the last 30 years or so.

So you're saying there's a labor shortage then?

Where did you get that from? I said we haven't been at full employment since the illegals have been here. They've been here when jobs were scarce taking our work.

Full employment has never meant 0%.

it should; full employment of resources should be market recognizable; not just, capital friendly.

 

[Redfish]

Full employment is just a term that we use when we cross a certain point of employment. If every single person capable of working had a job, our unemployment rate would be 0%

We consider full employment at around 5% because that is the number of people in flux within the market at any given time.

wrong that 5% statistic means that 95% of the people who want to work have a job. note "who want to work". The actual unemployment rate is more like 20% when you consider retired people, students, people with physical and mental handicaps, high school drop outs hanging out on the street corners, and those who are just plain too lazy to work.

The employment rate is a measure of those in or who wish to be in the labor market.
It's not and has never been a measure of all able bodied Americans who could work.

5% is considered full as there is always a percentage between jobs for one reason or another at any given time.

once again, you are buying into the propaganda. your choice.

Once again, I say, post your proof or fuck off.
I gave you a link. You've given nothing.

It's known what the output of a panel is over it's lifetime. You need to find the power cost of production for that panel and compare.

I don't need to prove anything, I am merely questioning the "solar is wonderful" rhetoric, you are the one making the claims, the burden of proof is on you.

tell me why subsidies are necessary to get anyone to buy solar. If the payback is as you say, but its not. and you know it.

 

[bripat9643]

U.S. treasuries are an obligation to the taxpayer, and so are the I.O.U.s in the socalled SS trust fund.

Agreed, but like other US treasuries they are far from being worthless.

Wrong. All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers. They are debts, not assets.

To be worthless means the treasury bills have no value. They certainly have value to the trust and thus value to all beneficiaries and are considered assets of trust. These treasury bills are federal debt and that does mean they are a taxpayer debt if that debt were ever actually transferred to them. However, my main point is beneficiaries of the trust fund are not synonymous with taxpayers. Some taxpayers are never beneficiaries and some beneficiaries are never burdened with taxes. They are two separate entities. The treasury bills are assets of the beneficiaries and a taxpayer liability.

All you're saying is that some people never collect Social Security. The bottom line is that the securities in the soc-alled Trust Fund can only be paid off by extracting the money from taxpayers. They are claims on taxpayers. They are therefor of no value to taxpayers. They are obligations. So why should the taxpayers vote to support this Ponzi scheme?

Your claim that taxpayers and beneficiaries are two separate groups is false. They are the same exact people.

No, tax payers and beneficiaries of the trust are not the same. Taxpayers include corporations. Are they beneficiary of the trust? No. All workers pay social security and are beneficiaries, however a large percent of workers have no tax burden and thus are not taxpayers. Also other taxes are paid such as estate taxes, tariffs, gift taxes, and a number of other lesser taxes that do not necessary have any connection with social security beneficiaries.

Since the federal government is borrowing money from social trust fund, it pays back the principal on maturity unless the funds are reinvested. So yes, the federal government uses tax payer dollars to pay back money it borrowed from the fund. It is certainly not a Ponzi scheme.

You make the mistake of lot of people in thinking the social security trust is part of the government and the treasury contributes to the fund which it does not. All contributions to the fund come from beneficiaries not the goverment. The only time that money is transferred to the fund from the treasury is paying off redeemed treasuries and interest. The social security trust fund is a real trust fund. It is managed by a board of 6 trustees appointed by the president which include both cabinet members and people from the private sector.

This Trust fund is legally a separate entity from the federal government. It is totally funded by contributions from beneficiaries and their employees and as such can not be commingled with tax payer funds. By law all assets of the fund must be invested in special issue treasury bills. Treasury bills are bought from the treasury at face value. Interest and principal is paid to the fund just like regular treasury bills.

Benefit payments are paid to retirees out of the fund. When contributions to the fund are not sufficient to pay benefits, the special issue treasury bills are sold back to the treasury at face value. The proceeds are used to pay benefits.

If the fund nears depletion, social security benefits are reduced to the amount of the current contributions. It is estimated that benefits to retirees will be reduced by about 25% when the fund is depleted if congress does nothing.

That's all bullshit. Social Security is part of the government, just as the Treasury is part of the government. Government issued the bonds, and the government received the bonds. All the legal mumbo jumbo you cited was created to disguise what is actually going on, but it only fools the gullible.

 

[Redfish]

Look libs, I truly wish that solar power would be so great that we could stop using fossil fuels completely, but its not. Someday, maybe it will be, but today its simply not.