Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[Some Guy]

Sure, buddy if that makes you feel better. If you don't pay your taxes to include SSDI then yeah, you could wind up in prison.

So, better take responsibility and do your share, comrade.

Do you like that I threw in 'comrade' for you? You're welcome.

I'm just pointing out that you're in favor of authoritarianism when it suits you. You're more than happy to use the threat of violence to get what you want when you want it because your opinion is superior to others', which therefore means you're smarter and know what's better for someone(s) than they do.

Again, the real ideological battle going on. We agree on the issue, we don't agree that the threat of force should be used to attain the goal.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, I don't question this has always been your belief, as unpopular as it is. What I want you to do is keep preaching about it and be sure to identify yourself as a conservative. Thanks!

I will, and as a conservative, I think younger people should have a choice whether to be in the program or not. I have no problem with being forced to save, but not forced to save with the government. It's just one of many tools to control the people.

The only reason SS is popular is because we were forced into it. It's our money. When you consider your FICA contribution (another fancy acronym for Social Security) and SS deductions, it's the largest tax we pay out of our check. So of course nobody (particularly older and middle-aged adults) want to see it go away.

Oh know, the government is forcing people to save for retirement, the horror. Good, it's helped keep people out of poverty.

Yes, and that's what our founders created a federal government for--to keep people out of poverty.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The American Republican party is the only political party in the world that denies the reality of climate change.

Your belief is the outlier. Not mine.

Most of the rest of the world also willingly, or unwillingly gave up their legally owned guns, and embraced Socialism. Most Americans, especially Republicans aren't sheep like much of the world. The reasons we are Americans. We're different, and don't go along with every government power, and money grab.

A nonsensical response. More like your party tends to attract those who either have a financial stake in fossil fuels or are simply not smart enough to grasp the actual science.

your party tends to attract those who either have a financial stake in fossil fuels

Cheap, energy dense, convenient.
The entire country has a financial stake in fossil fuels.

Investments, dope.

Savings, moron.

Don't try to tell me what I meant to say, asshole.

I meant what I said. Agree, disagree or go away.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, so you can't answer either. How surprising.

Really, do explain. What policies have the Republicans administered that had anything to do with what a private business pays their employees.

At times yes, at other times, no, I just got a second job to get ahead. This is the horse and carrot theory. If you feed a horse carrots, you're not going to get the work out of him as you can dangling a carrot in front of a horse.

As liberalism progressed, less and less people wanted to pull the cart. They just went to government for their daily allowance of carrots. Then complain that they aren't getting enough.


No, business people and investors don't get paid. They create their own money.

Of course, non-rich people can do the same, it's just they'd rater work for somebody else and bitch instead. But anybody not happy with the wage they make are welcome to open their own business and pay their workers whatever they like.

Businesses produce products or services. To sell their products or service, price is the main factor. Ss if you and I had widget factories, and I paid my employees what they were worth, and you overpaid all your employees, I'm going to steal all of your customers and put you out of business, because I can sell my widgets two dollars less than you can.

Which is why we need Democrats running the government and policy again. Unions have been broken and the greatest generation died so there is no one else to protect the non rich.

Then why didn't DumBama and the rest of the crooks bring back unions when they had the chance? Go ahead, bring back unions. It will only have the same result it did as last time, and that is businesses moving out of the country or otherwise investing in automation.

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

Daylight hours is when air conditioning is running!

Exactly. The retired neighbor who is home all day is using the excess generated by the homes where no one is home.

 

[Redfish]

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that it's a wealth re-distribution program that's run inefficiently and is the one of the main drivers of our national debt.

NOPE, that's false.

SS is operationally VERY efficient with overhead at just 0.7% compared to about 8-10% if you look at any private insurance system.

SS trust fund balance is positive, which means public has paid more into the system than was paid out of it. And the reason why if nothing is done it will turn negative has nothing to do with inefficiency it has to do with there being more retired people that need to be covered.

that would be true if the dems in congress had not merged SS funds with the general fund under LBJ. Now, those working pay for those who are retired. There is no "fund" that was made up from our SS (FICA) deductions.

As far as budget effects it doesn't matter who merged with what. What matters is how much was paid into the program and how much was paid out.

you just don't get it. SS was set up as a forced retirement fund for American workers. What we paid in was supposed to be put away for our retirement years. Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired. The democrats under LBJ changed it and merged the SS fund with the general fund and then spent it. The classic Ponzi scheme.

Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired.

Currently there is about $2.8 trillion in the SS Trust Fund.

the problem is that every penny of that is already committed to payments to current SS recipients, there is a net zero when you compare assets to obligations. actually it is a very large net negative.

 

[Redfish]

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that it's a wealth re-distribution program that's run inefficiently and is the one of the main drivers of our national debt.

NOPE, that's false.

SS is operationally VERY efficient with overhead at just 0.7% compared to about 8-10% if you look at any private insurance system.

SS trust fund balance is positive, which means public has paid more into the system than was paid out of it. And the reason why if nothing is done it will turn negative has nothing to do with inefficiency it has to do with there being more retired people that need to be covered.

that would be true if the dems in congress had not merged SS funds with the general fund under LBJ. Now, those working pay for those who are retired. There is no "fund" that was made up from our SS (FICA) deductions.

Now, those working pay for those who are retired.

It was always designed that way.
It wasn't designed to support people for 20+ years in retirement.

actually it was designed that way. the problem is that modern medicine is keeping people alive longer and the actuaries who created the SS fund did not properly foresee that. But that's only part of the problem, when LBJ did away with the SS fund the only way to keep the contract with retired people was to take more from working people. that will continue.

when LBJ did away with the SS fund

What do you imagine he did?
Why do you imagine it matters?

educate yourself, good article from Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/07/13/what-happened-to-the-2-6-trillion-social-security-trust-fund/#20de502f4947

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

 

[AntonToo]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

That is also wrong, avg annual household consumption is 10,000-11,000 kWh, or 10-11 MWh

 

[Redfish]

Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired.

Currently there is about $2.8 trillion in the SS Trust Fund.

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

We have a massive unfunded liability.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

So where is the $2.8 trillion?

it consists of bonds issued to American taxpayers (and the Chinese government). it is a stack of debts, not a stack of money.

 

[Redfish]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Which is why we need Democrats running the government and policy again. Unions have been broken and the greatest generation died so there is no one else to protect the non rich.

Then why didn't DumBama and the rest of the crooks bring back unions when they had the chance? Go ahead, bring back unions. It will only have the same result it did as last time, and that is businesses moving out of the country or otherwise investing in automation.

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

That is also wrong, avg annual household consumption is 10,000-11,000 kWh, or 10-11 MWh

You're right. I quoted monthly usage.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

 

[Redfish]

Then why didn't DumBama and the rest of the crooks bring back unions when they had the chance? Go ahead, bring back unions. It will only have the same result it did as last time, and that is businesses moving out of the country or otherwise investing in automation.

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

 

[Redfish]

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

 

[Redfish]

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

that's really beside the point. either we have borders and immigration laws or we don't. Try to enter any other country in the world illegally and see where you end up. Why do you libs want to open our borders to the entire world? I do not understand why you would want that, can you explain? then explain why you want our existing immigration laws to be ignored.

Who then does those jobs if we're at full employment?

high school kids needing part time jobs, able bodied people on welfare, ghetto kids who have dropped out of school. AND legal foreign workers here on LEGAL green cards.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then why didn't DumBama and the rest of the crooks bring back unions when they had the chance? Go ahead, bring back unions. It will only have the same result it did as last time, and that is businesses moving out of the country or otherwise investing in automation.

That's happening regardless. If you're so interested in saving American jobs then why don't you take a pay cut?

Yes it is happening, but will happen even faster than it is now if that's what you want. How would me taking a pay cut save an American job? If you want to save American jobs, support Republicans and their quest to eliminate illegals and build a wall so they stop coming here and taking American jobs.

Yes, Americans are lining up for the opportunity to be a part of the exciting meat processing industry. Second only in demand to the tomato harvesting arts.

No they are not. But in order to get workers, the pay scale will have to naturally increase and then you'll see Americans taking those jobs.

You've been hoodwinked to think that the only jobs foreigners take are agriculture jobs. Better think again before they come to where you work and take your job next.

We are at full employment. Obviously immigrants aren't taking any jobs people care to do.

Well we haven't been at full employment the last 30 years or so.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

Solar panels produce power, not consume power. You don't use a measure of consumption to rate the system production.

7.5 kWh is way more than any home would use daily. The average annual houshold consumption is 10-11 kWh.

producing them consumes power, fossil fuel power. That silicon does not just melt itself, it takes a lot of heat from burning coal, oil, or gas.

So.

What's your point?

that its likely a net energy loss or at best a break even. I wish it were otherwise, but its not.

It's not true at all. The panels produce 80% more than the cost of production over their usable life.