Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[AntonToo]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

 

[HappyJoy]

WOW are you dense.

Installing solar panels where it rains 200 days a year defines "dense."

For starters you clearly misunderstood the post and you doubled down on that fact.

But since you brought it up, yes solar does work in Seattle, obviously you didn't look into that either before posting did you?

"Works", perhaps yes. Efficiently? Not at all. Other than the fact that temperatures are far lower than, say my area of North Florida where it is still extremely unpopular.

Here is an IKEA in Washington with a solar roof

It's viable and now some solar panels work best in defused light so they are more productive on cloudy days.

I'm sorry solar is 'extremely' unpopular in North Florida but that's kind of the shitty part of the state anyway.

Yes, they, like IKEA, get a massive tax write off and progressives like you give them lots of free publicity.

Who doesn't like IKEA? And it takes more than a 'massive' (whatever that means) write off to put solar on your roof and make it economical.

I think really the point here is that alternative energy such as solar is taking off and it saves money. Then again, you have shown to be clueless on what the cost is anyway.

 

[HappyJoy]

WOW are you dense.

Installing solar panels where it rains 200 days a year defines "dense."

For starters you clearly misunderstood the post and you doubled down on that fact.

But since you brought it up, yes solar does work in Seattle, obviously you didn't look into that either before posting did you?

"Works", perhaps yes. Efficiently? Not at all. Other than the fact that temperatures are far lower than, say my area of North Florida where it is still extremely unpopular.

Here is an IKEA in Washington with a solar roof

It's viable and now some solar panels work best in defused light so they are more productive on cloudy days.

I'm sorry solar is 'extremely' unpopular in North Florida but that's kind of the shitty part of the state anyway.

The fact that IKEA put it on their roof proves nothing. You have no idea how much the spent or how much power it produces. It could be a big money loser, for all you know.

The fact that IKEA has it on their roof and you don't proves IKEA is smart.

I'm pretty sure they did the math before throwing it up on the roof, it's not like it's a god damned mystery or anything.

For all I know, it's a money saver for me.

EDIT: You guys can find resources on solar in Seattle, you know this right?

Here's a guy, check him out...or not.
https://www.poplarnetwork.com/news/does-solar-energy-make-sense-seattle

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Are you playing stupid?

If you wrote an IOU to yourself and stuck it in your pocket, how much money could you get from what you have in your pocket?

If you wrote an IOU to yourself and stuck it in your pocket, how much money could you get from what you have in your pocket?

I'll wait for you to explain what the hell that has to do with US Treasury debt securities being rock solid......

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

 

[HappyJoy]

If you wrote an IOU to yourself and stuck it in your pocket, how much money could you get from what you have in your pocket?

I'll wait for you to explain what the hell that has to do with US Treasury debt securities being rock solid......

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

Social Security is bad news.

That fact that it keeps them out of poverty tells us very little about the rest.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

We agree. Rock solid securities. The opposite of worthless.

They are obligations to the taxpayers. Do you understand what that means?

That means I don't have to worry that my T-Notes will fail to pay my interest or return my principal.

Are you playing stupid?

If you wrote an IOU to yourself and stuck it in your pocket, how much money could you get from what you have in your pocket?

If you wrote an IOU to yourself and stuck it in your pocket, how much money could you get from what you have in your pocket?

I'll wait for you to explain what the hell that has to do with US Treasury debt securities being rock solid......

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets.

Exactly!

Of what value is that to me?

How many Treasury securities do you own?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Agreed, but like other US treasuries they are far from being worthless.

Wrong. All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers. They are debts, not assets.

All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers.

Yup.

They are debts, not assets.

They're debts and assets.

When the government issues a security to itself, how much has it increased the assets of the government?

When the government issues a security to itself, how much has it increased the assets of the government?

By exactly the same amount it has increased the liabilities of the government.

Exactly. The net change is $0.00. Zero, zip, nada, nothing. That's how much the Trust Fund is worth.

Exactly. The net change is $0.00. Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

Bingo! The trust fund reduced the amount of debt the Treasury had to sell to the public.

 

[Markle]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

 

[HappyJoy]

Installing solar panels where it rains 200 days a year defines "dense."

For starters you clearly misunderstood the post and you doubled down on that fact.

But since you brought it up, yes solar does work in Seattle, obviously you didn't look into that either before posting did you?

"Works", perhaps yes. Efficiently? Not at all. Other than the fact that temperatures are far lower than, say my area of North Florida where it is still extremely unpopular.

Here is an IKEA in Washington with a solar roof

It's viable and now some solar panels work best in defused light so they are more productive on cloudy days.

I'm sorry solar is 'extremely' unpopular in North Florida but that's kind of the shitty part of the state anyway.

The fact that IKEA put it on their roof proves nothing. You have no idea how much the spent or how much power it produces. It could be a big money loser, for all you know.

The fact that IKEA has it on their roof and you don't proves IKEA is smart.

I'm pretty sure they did the math before throwing it up on the roof, it's not like it's a god damned mystery or anything.

For all I know, it's a money saver for me.

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

Social Security is bad news.

That fact that it keeps them out of poverty tells us very little about the rest.

It's bad news but yet you haven't posted and when I post good news about SS you completely disregard it. Makes total sense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired.

Currently there is about $2.8 trillion in the SS Trust Fund.

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

We have a massive unfunded liability.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

So where is the $2.8 trillion?

As you know, and know well, it was loaned to our government and spent. Instead of a credit, which erroneously showed as a surplus during the administration of former President Bill Clinton.

As you know, and know well, it was loaned to our government

And when you loan to government, you get a bond.

 

[Markle]

Currently there is zero in the SS fund and those working are paying those who are retired.

Currently there is about $2.8 trillion in the SS Trust Fund.

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

We have a massive unfunded liability.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

True, there is about $2.8 Trillion in the account of Social Security but there is no trust fund.

So where is the $2.8 trillion?

As you know, and know well, it was loaned to our government and spent. Instead of a credit, which erroneously showed as a surplus during the administration of former President Bill Clinton.

As you know, and know well, it was loaned to our government

And when you loan to government, you get a bond.

Your point being? Or did you simply need to post something?

 

[bripat9643]

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

Your source is a commie propaganda organ. Citing it only proves that you are gullible.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong. All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers. They are debts, not assets.

All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers.

Yup.

They are debts, not assets.

They're debts and assets.

When the government issues a security to itself, how much has it increased the assets of the government?

When the government issues a security to itself, how much has it increased the assets of the government?

By exactly the same amount it has increased the liabilities of the government.

Exactly. The net change is $0.00. Zero, zip, nada, nothing. That's how much the Trust Fund is worth.

Exactly. The net change is $0.00. Zero, zip, nada, nothing.

Bingo! The trust fund reduced the amount of debt the Treasury had to sell to the public.

Not by one cent.

 

[Flopper]

Worthless? Like US Treasuries?

U.S. treasuries are an obligation to the taxpayer, and so are the I.O.U.s in the socalled SS trust fund.

Agreed, but like other US treasuries they are far from being worthless.

Wrong. All government securities are obligations to the taxpayers. They are debts, not assets.

To be worthless means the treasury bills have no value. They certainly have value to the trust and thus value to all beneficiaries and are considered assets of trust. These treasury bills are federal debt and that does mean they are a taxpayer debt if that debt were ever actually transferred to them. However, my main point is beneficiaries of the trust fund are not synonymous with taxpayers. Some taxpayers are never beneficiaries and some beneficiaries are never burdened with taxes. They are two separate entities. The treasury bills are assets of the beneficiaries and a taxpayer liability.

All you're saying is that some people never collect Social Security. The bottom line is that the securities in the soc-alled Trust Fund can only be paid off by extracting the money from taxpayers. They are claims on taxpayers. They are therefor of no value to taxpayers. They are obligations. So why should the taxpayers vote to support this Ponzi scheme?

Your claim that taxpayers and beneficiaries are two separate groups is false. They are the same exact people.

No, tax payers and beneficiaries of the trust are not the same. Taxpayers include corporations. Are they beneficiary of the trust? No. All workers pay social security and are beneficiaries, however a large percent of workers have no tax burden and thus are not taxpayers. Also other taxes are paid such as estate taxes, tariffs, gift taxes, and a number of other lesser taxes that do not necessary have any connection with social security beneficiaries.

Since the federal government is borrowing money from social trust fund, it pays back the principal on maturity unless the funds are reinvested. So yes, the federal government uses tax payer dollars to pay back money it borrowed from the fund. It is certainly not a Ponzi scheme.

You make the mistake of lot of people in thinking the social security trust is part of the government and the treasury contributes to the fund which it does not. All contributions to the fund come from beneficiaries not the goverment. The only time that money is transferred to the fund from the treasury is paying off redeemed treasuries and interest. The social security trust fund is a real trust fund. It is managed by a board of 6 trustees appointed by the president which include both cabinet members and people from the private sector.

This Trust fund is legally a separate entity from the federal government. It is totally funded by contributions from beneficiaries and their employees and as such can not be commingled with tax payer funds. By law all assets of the fund must be invested in special issue treasury bills. Treasury bills are bought from the treasury at face value. Interest and principal is paid to the fund just like regular treasury bills.

Benefit payments are paid to retirees out of the fund. When contributions to the fund are not sufficient to pay benefits, the special issue treasury bills are sold back to the treasury at face value. The proceeds are used to pay benefits.

If the fund nears depletion, social security benefits are reduced to the amount of the current contributions. It is estimated that benefits to retirees will be reduced by about 25% when the fund is depleted if congress does nothing.

 

[dudmuck]

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

Your source is a commie propaganda organ. Citing it only proves that you are gullible.

If you dont like CBPP, there are plenty of other sources, such as university of chicago.
The nice thing about facts, is there are plenty of places to find them.

 

[AntonToo]

Stop saying flat out bullshit.

For 70k you are powering a sprawling mansion.

Depends on what you call a mansion I presume. The system produced 75 kWh and provided enough electricity for the owner to have sold the surplus to the utility company during the peak hours, buy back at night and when rainy and zero out his utility cost.

The house was fairly new and the solar system was retrofitted. The house has about 2,500 sq. ft. 2 central air and heat systems, a pool and a separate two bedroom, late model mobile home. The cost to the owner was supported by documentation from the owner and two certified general appraisers in our area.

All solar energy supporters want desperately for the COST to be far, far lower than reality. Someday, perhaps, just not yet. Germany has been forced to be made very aware of these facts.

Dummy you are talking about 7.5 kW system, not “75 kWh” system. 75 kW system would produce about TEN TIMES the average household consumption.

Thank you for your opinion and courtesy.

Example
What is the power consumption in kilowatts when the energy consumption is 15 kilowatt-hour for time duration of 3 hours?

P = 15 kWh / 3 h = 5 kW

How to convert kWh to kW?

.....aaand?

System size is measured in peak performance per hour. So when you say “75 kWh” system you are saying the system produces 75 kW in one hour which is 10 times normal system size.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They are "rock solid" only because the government can point guns at me and you to extract the money from our wallets. Of what value is that to me?

How long are you going to keep playing stupid?

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

There is no way to actually know that.

Many people didn't put anything away because there is SS. If not for SS, and you were just SOL if you didn't save, I would be willing to bet most of those people would have done what we are doing today with our IRA's.

I wish all the money I (and my employers) contributed to the program were in a conservative growth account all these years. What I would be worth today....... Plus the fact that if I die before I get to use it, or use very little of it, my heirs would have a nice jump in life. They would be able to buy a home, payoff the home they have, or even move to a larger and better home. Maybe start a nice college fund for their kids.

 

[Moonglow]

Who said he's playing?

A lot of conservatives in this forum seem to have a mental block when it comes to Social Security. They just an't admit that it's a huge swindel.

That's lifted many a senior citizen out of poverty.

Social Security Keeps 22 Million Americans Out of Poverty: A State-By-State Analysis

Remember when we had poor houses? Yeah, not in my lifetime either.

They may not be institutions...but they exist.

Not like the good old days.

According to my link SS keeps 22 million out of poverty. So, deal with that 'bad' news.

There is no way to actually know that.

Many people didn't put anything away because there is SS. If not for SS, and you were just SOL if you didn't save, I would be willing to bet most of those people would have done what we are doing today with our IRA's.

I wish all the money I (and my employers) contributed to the program were in a conservative growth account all these years. What I would be worth today....... Plus the fact that if I die before I get to use it, or use very little of it, my heirs would have a nice jump in life. They would be able to buy a home, payoff the home they have, or even move to a larger and better home. Maybe start a nice college fund for their kids.

Less 10-15% for maintenance fees.

 

[easyt65]

'Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes'

Ca Progressives are just following in Barry's footsteps.

Barry forced Americans to buy a product that the Federal Govt created then mandated under threat of 'punishment' for anyone who refused to comply. Barry's product was Obamacare - Ca's is Solar panels. What's next - electric cars, 'Carbon Credits'...?