Condemning communism

[Unkotare]

....
Stalin was never a communist, ......

 

[Curried Goats]

Spend some years living in each kind and you'll understand.

Make an argument not fortune cookie proclamations. I wouldn't want to live in a capitalist American society in the 1800s that allowed people with my skin color to be enslaved or the capitalist American society of early 1900s that treated us like 2nd class citizens any more than I'd want to live in Stalins Russia or Castro's Cuba. My opposition is to authoritarianism in any form and I support democracy even if it leads to democratic socialism. When those on the right talk about inherent tyranny in democratic socialism they do so only to give themselves cover for violence against democracy. They don't seem to recognize the irony in their actions marking them the Authoritarians.

 

[Rigby5]

Are you saying that you don't condemn communism because you endorse communism?

All humans obviously endorse communism.
Have you ever seen anyone charge their children or other relative, for room and board, in order to make a profit?
Of course not.
That is because all humans are born inherently communist and sharing, cooperative, communal, etc.
As you go to larger groupings, like tribes, humans are still communist, but gradually less so as the grouping gets bigger and more unfamiliar.
So it is not clear communism can work on a large national scale or not.
But it is also clear it has never been tried.
Any attempt at communism on the scale of a country, is always attacked and destroyed by the evil capitalist, aristocrats, and dictators.

 

[Curried Goats]

Thanks. It's really nice to finally see a lefty just come out and admit that the reason why lefties won't condemn communism is because they have no problem with it. Your answer is probably the first honest answer to the question.

I have no problem being your boogie man. Why should people be afraid of me? You still haven't explained what's so scary about Democratically chosen socialism? Maybe you're just easily frightened.

 

[Unkotare]

Make an argument not fortune cookie proclamations.....

No fortune cookies. Go, and decide for yourself.

 

[Rigby5]

Stalin was never even remotely interested in economic or political systems.
He was simply greedy as an individual and wanted the most personal power and wealth possible.

 

[Curried Goats]

No fortune cookies. Go, and decide for yourself.

I have decided for myself and have plenty of experience with countries with more socialism and social safety nets than my own. I have family all over the world. That's why I support things like Medicare for all. Do you have an intelligent argument for why I shouldn't or how democratically chosen socialism or communism equates to tyranny?

 

[WTH_Progs?]

The left implemented this, and much more under COVID. https://cultureshield.com/PDF/45_Goals.pdf

 

[Unkotare]

I have decided for myself and have plenty of experience with countries with more socialism and social safety nets than my own......

Which ones?

 

[Rigby5]

No fortune cookies. Go, and decide for yourself.

Communism exists all the time in the US.
For example, I have relatives in rural Kansas, and to save money on those they could sell their grain to, they had to have a local grain elevator.
They pooled their money and built a coop.
It increased their farming profits by 30%, and has been going on for over 60 years.
The whole town has boomed due to that communal investment and shared profits.

If you think communism has anything to do with the political decision making process, you are wrong.
Communism requires a democracy, but if you have a democracy, you can decide to communally invest in joint ventures or not.
There can never be any compulsion in real communism.
Anytime you have a dictatorship, that can not be communism.
Communism is communal, cooperative, and collective, both with decision making, funds invested in, and profits shared out.

 

[Rigby5]

Which ones?

Scandanavian countries are good models, but even Canada has better socialized medicine than the US.
The profit motive leads to unneeded testing, lack of ability to trust your doctor, the poor getting shafted, large amounts of skimming, destructive monopolies, greedy people becoming doctors for the wrong reasons, etc.
The rest of the world pays less than half as much for health care, and gets better health care.
We have no control over quality or costs in the US due to prepaid insurance company layers.

 

[Curried Goats]

Which ones?

Canada, England, South Korea, Germany, I have family in other countries as well but those tend to have fewer social safety nets compared to America.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Explain that. What do you think makes a communist government any more inherently a slave state than a capitalist one?

In what way would a society, who chose to adopt aspects of communism through democratic means, be tyrannical?

You are making declarative statements without much supporting argument. If my position is wrong then address my points and explain why as I do yours.

So was capitalism. Capitalism was birthed and sustained through the violent and forceful enslavement of Africans and indigenous people.

I post facts and arguments. Counter them if you can.

Because as designed and required communist governments are always a dictatorship

I am stating facts proven by history and marx himself.

Capitalism was not birthed by slavery of african americans at all

youy are ignorant of history

You do NOT post facts you post fallacies

 

[Soupnazi630]

Since Stalin was out for personal power and wealth, not cooperative sharing, then he was a capitalist.
He was not politically motivated.
His past history was that of a bank robber.
He joined the Bolsheviks only because they protected him from the police, and he realized he could get power from them.
There was nothing remotely communist about Stalin.
He was almost identical to any monarch, and was a state capitalist.
All dictators always are state capitalists.
The difference from modern capitalists being that they do not allow competition, and make a total monopoly, using the military power of the state.
That is ultra capitalist.

Stalin was a communist he was not a capitalist. Communism is not about cooperation or sharing it is about brutal dictagtorship and enslavement of all whicvh Stalin practiced.

Dictators come in many forms not just state capitalists.

 

[Unkotare]

Canada, England, South Korea, Germany, I have family in other countries as well but those tend to have fewer social safety nets compared to America.

That's as close as you came to a communist country and you claim to have "experience" upon which to base your conclusions?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Scandanavian countries are good models, but even Canada has better socialized medicine than the US.
The profit motive leads to unneeded testing, lack of ability to trust your doctor, the poor getting shafted, large amounts of skimming, destructive monopolies, greedy people becoming doctors for the wrong reasons, etc.
The rest of the world pays less than half as much for health care, and gets better health care.
We have no control over quality or costs in the US due to prepaid insurance company layers.

They have inferior medicine./

The profit motive leads to innovation and prosperity for most,

 

[Soupnazi630]

The US, Germany, etc. deliberately supported Stalin and other capitalists during the Bolshevik revolution, to ensure communism would never exist as a government.
Capitalists are frightened by the obvious truth of communism, and do not allow it.
Stalin was never a communist, was a state capitalists who got his training, wealth, and power by robbing banks.
So where could one spend any time living under communism?
Communism has never been allowed on any scale larger than like the Amish community.

The obvious truth of communism is enslavement for all and no one supported it.

Stalin was a communist

Communism is not communal living it is a odern political system of dictatoorship and enslavment

 

[Curried Goats]

Because as designed and required communist governments are always a dictatorship

Don't just proclaim it, explain it and prove it. You don't think socialism or communism can be implemented democratically? Why not?

I am stating facts proven by history and marx himself.

No you're not. You're engaging in a logical fallacy by saying because some self proclaimed communist was a dictator that all communists and socialists are wannabe dictators and that simply isn't the case. Not one that you've proven any way.

Capitalism was not birthed by slavery of african americans at all

It was.

youy are ignorant of history

Not at all. Whether you want to put the start of modern capitalism at America, which was a slave state or Europe which was ruled by kings, capitalism got its start and has spent the majority of its existence as a tyrannical system imposed on others against their will through violence.

You do NOT post facts you post fallacies

Counter my facts then.

 

[Curried Goats]

That's as close as you came to a communist country and you claim to have "experience" upon which to base your conclusions?

You have yet to provide an argument, you imply you have a superior one but have yet to actually make it. Man up Butter Cup.

 

[EvMetro]

All humans obviously endorse communism.
Have you ever seen anyone charge their children or other relative, for room and board, in order to make a profit?
Of course not.
That is because all humans are born inherently communist and sharing, cooperative, communal, etc.
As you go to larger groupings, like tribes, humans are still communist, but gradually less so as the grouping gets bigger and more unfamiliar.
So it is not clear communism can work on a large national scale or not.
But it is also clear it has never been tried.
Any attempt at communism on the scale of a country, is always attacked and destroyed by the evil capitalist, aristocrats, and dictators.

Are you saying that YOU endorse communism, and that is why you don't condemn communism?