Conservatives and Empathy

[mudwhistle]

NAME the legislation authored and passed by Republicans that have helped the poor and middle class.

The Republican Party was created in 1854 by anti-slavery activists.

The 13th amendment, which formally abolished slavery in the United States, passed the Senate on April 8, 1864, and the House on January 31, 1865. On February 1, 1865, President Abraham Lincoln​ approved the Joint Resolution of Congress submitting the proposed amendment to the state legislatures. The necessary number of states ratified it by December 6, 1865. The 13th amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

The 14th Amendment

Text of the 14th Amendment

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
*Changed by section 1 of the 26th amendment.

The 15th Amendment

The 15th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on February 3, 1870 during Reconstruction. Along with the 13th amendment and the 14th amendment, it is one of the three Reconstruction amendments.
Text of the 15th Amendment

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section. 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Admission of Wyoming to the Union gave Wyoming women the right to vote.
Date Admitted to the Union:

July 10, 1890 - Wyoming was the 44th state.


The 19th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on August 18, 1920. This amendment gave women the right to vote.

Text of the 19th Amendment

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.


Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The Civil Rights Act of 1957


Text is here.

After it was proposed to Congress by Republican President Eisenhower, Democrat Senator Strom Thurmond set the longest 1-man filibuster in history of 24 hours and 18 minutes. The bill passed the House with a vote of 270 to 97 and the Senate 60 to 15. President Eisenhower​ signed it on 9 September 1957. Senator John F Kennedy voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957.


The Democrats in power have removed this online document from the national archives about Republican President Eisenhower's role in desegregating the Little Rock Schools in 1954. All you get is a blank page. They have also excised all information on Republican activities from Wikipedia due to their extremism which is thoroughly Disgusting:




Civil Rights: The Little Rock School Integration Crisis. On May 17, 1954 ... A Moderate Among Extremists: Dwight D. Eisenhower and the School Desegregation Crisis by James C ...
www.eisenhower.archives.gov/Research/Digital_Documents/​LittleRock/​littlerockdocuments.html


​

They did more, I've been on this for several hours it seems, because headers leading into pages about Eisenhower omit Eisenhower's and Republicans entirely when you get there on the first several pages of internet findings. The Democrats have excised Republican activities from the internet except where Republicans control the content. That is most evil in my humble opinion. They want to take credit for everything my party did, so they're doing it in extremely underhanded and diabolical, lying ways.

Sandy Berger was the first Democrat to get caught messing with the National Archives.. for those who are new to the net and don't know.

The slavers have co-opted an old Republican platform.

Now they're masquerading as defenders of the poor.

A party who's leadership wants to control health care through single-payer.

A party that wants to control energy through Cap & Trade.

A party that wants to control Black voters through peer-pressure and demonizing the GOP.

A party that wants to control lending through the Dodd-Frank act.

And a party that wants to tell you how to eat, how much money you can make, what you can or cannot put in your body, wants to take God out of our lives, wants to embrace our enemies and condemn millions of our own people, wants to hassle us and terrorize us at our airports, wants to ban everything they can think of, force us to pay more and more for their green legislation and their social programs, and won't listen to us when we tell them to stop spending.

I'm feeling kind of like a slave these days.

 

[naomibee]

NAME the legislation authored and passed by Republicans that have helped the poor and middle class.

The Republican Party was created in 1854 by anti-slavery activists.

The 13th amendment, which formally abolished slavery in the United States, passed the Senate on April 8, 1864, and the House on January 31, 1865. On February 1, 1865, President Abraham Lincoln​ approved the Joint Resolution of Congress submitting the proposed amendment to the state legislatures. The necessary number of states ratified it by December 6, 1865. The 13th amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

The 14th Amendment

Text of the 14th Amendment

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
*Changed by section 1 of the 26th amendment.

The 15th Amendment

The 15th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on February 3, 1870 during Reconstruction. Along with the 13th amendment and the 14th amendment, it is one of the three Reconstruction amendments.
Text of the 15th Amendment

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section. 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Admission of Wyoming to the Union gave Wyoming women the right to vote.
Date Admitted to the Union:

July 10, 1890 - Wyoming was the 44th state.


The 19th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on August 18, 1920. This amendment gave women the right to vote.

Text of the 19th Amendment

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.


Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The Civil Rights Act of 1957


Text is here.

After it was proposed to Congress by Republican President Eisenhower, Democrat Senator Strom Thurmond set the longest 1-man filibuster in history of 24 hours and 18 minutes. The bill passed the House with a vote of 270 to 97 and the Senate 60 to 15. President Eisenhower​ signed it on 9 September 1957. Senator John F Kennedy voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957.


The Democrats in power have removed this online document from the national archives about Republican President Eisenhower's role in desegregating the Little Rock Schools in 1954. All you get is a blank page. They have also excised all information on Republican activities from Wikipedia due to their extremism which is thoroughly Disgusting:




Civil Rights: The Little Rock School Integration Crisis. On May 17, 1954 ... A Moderate Among Extremists: Dwight D. Eisenhower and the School Desegregation Crisis by James C ...
www.eisenhower.archives.gov/Research/Digital_Documents/​LittleRock/​littlerockdocuments.html


​

They did more, I've been on this for several hours it seems, because headers leading into pages about Eisenhower omit Eisenhower's and Republicans entirely when you get there on the first several pages of internet findings. The Democrats have excised Republican activities from the internet except where Republicans control the content. That is most evil in my humble opinion. They want to take credit for everything my party did, so they're doing it in extremely underhanded and diabolical, lying ways.

Sandy Berger was the first Democrat to get caught messing with the National Archives.. for those who are new to the net and don't know.

The slavers have co-opted an old Republican platform.

Now they're masquerading as defenders of the poor.

A party who's leadership wants to control health care through single-payer.

A party that wants to control energy through Cap & Trade.

A party that wants to control Black voters through peer-pressure and demonizing the GOP.

A party that wants to control lending through the Dodd-Frank act.

And a party that wants to tell you how to eat, how much money you can make, what you can or cannot put in your body, wants to take God out of our lives, wants to embrace our enemies and condemn millions of our own people, wants to hassle us and terrorize us at our airports, wants to ban everything they can think of, force us to pay more and more for their green legislation and their social programs, and won't listen to us when we tell them to stop spending.

I'm feeling kind of like a slave these days.

that sounds about right and i feel the same.

 

[freedombecki]

NAME the legislation authored and passed by Republicans that have helped the poor and middle class.

The Republican Party was created in 1854 by anti-slavery activists.

The 13th amendment, which formally abolished slavery in the United States, passed the Senate on April 8, 1864, and the House on January 31, 1865. On February 1, 1865, President Abraham Lincoln​ approved the Joint Resolution of Congress submitting the proposed amendment to the state legislatures. The necessary number of states ratified it by December 6, 1865. The 13th amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

The 14th Amendment

Text of the 14th Amendment

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
*Changed by section 1 of the 26th amendment.

The 15th Amendment

The 15th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on February 3, 1870 during Reconstruction. Along with the 13th amendment and the 14th amendment, it is one of the three Reconstruction amendments.
Text of the 15th Amendment

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section. 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Admission of Wyoming to the Union gave Wyoming women the right to vote.
Date Admitted to the Union:

July 10, 1890 - Wyoming was the 44th state.


The 19th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified on August 18, 1920. This amendment gave women the right to vote.

Text of the 19th Amendment

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.


Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

The Civil Rights Act of 1957


Text is here.

After it was proposed to Congress by Republican President Eisenhower, Democrat Senator Strom Thurmond set the longest 1-man filibuster in history of 24 hours and 18 minutes. The bill passed the House with a vote of 270 to 97 and the Senate 60 to 15. President Eisenhower​ signed it on 9 September 1957. Senator John F Kennedy voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957.


The Democrats in power have removed this online document from the national archives about Republican President Eisenhower's role in desegregating the Little Rock Schools in 1954. All you get is a blank page. They have also excised all information on Republican activities from Wikipedia due to their extremism which is thoroughly Disgusting:




Civil Rights: The Little Rock School Integration Crisis. On May 17, 1954 ... A Moderate Among Extremists: Dwight D. Eisenhower and the School Desegregation Crisis by James C ...
www.eisenhower.archives.gov/Research/Digital_Documents/​LittleRock/​littlerockdocuments.html


​

They did more, I've been on this for several hours it seems, because headers leading into pages about Eisenhower omit Eisenhower's and Republicans entirely when you get there on the first several pages of internet findings. The Democrats have excised Republican activities from the internet except where Republicans control the content. That is most evil in my humble opinion. They want to take credit for everything my party did, so they're doing it in extremely underhanded and diabolical, lying ways.

Sandy Berger was the first Democrat to get caught messing with the National Archives.. for those who are new to the net and don't know. He was convicted and fined $50,000 among other things.

The slavers have co-opted an old Republican platform.

Now they're masquerading as defenders of the poor.

A party who's leadership wants to control health care through single-payer.

A party that wants to control energy through Cap & Trade.

A party that wants to control Black voters through peer-pressure and demonizing the GOP.

A party that wants to control lending through the Dodd-Frank act.

And a party that wants to tell you how to eat, how much money you can make, what you can or cannot put in your body, wants to take God out of our lives, wants to embrace our enemies and condemn millions of our own people, wants to hassle us and terrorize us at our airports, wants to ban everything they can think of, force us to pay more and more for their green legislation and their social programs, and won't listen to us when we tell them to stop spending.

I'm feeling kind of like a slave these days.

Well, it's no wonder Mudwhistle.

Saul Alinsky method calls for massive fraud.

With no Republicans standing over and guarding the National Archives, I wonder what will be left when they're done revising the true history to their false one. I don't like the business of lying and changing archives when the Democrats control the keys.

Sandy Berger is very closely associated with Hillary Clinton. After he cheated his pants and shoes off at the National Archives, he resigned his law practice before he got disbarred. Hillary Clinton then hired him to run her Campaign. They're nothing but crooks who know all the tricks of cheating their way to power.

I'm sick of the Clintons control freakism.

 

[Greenbeard]

The issue that I have in this regard is what the ACA is doing to the unemployment figures. One reason employers aren't hiring is because they still don't know what the hell this bill means and how it is going to affect them in the future.

Given that economists and employers alike point to weak demand as the largest obstacle to hiring, there are significantly bigger economic fish to fry than alleged uncertainty three years down the road.

And what happens in 2014 if I am still unemployed? Our dear President and the morons in Congress of both parties are going to force me to either pay for my own insurance or become indebted to their "generosity" and beg for it. I am not exactly pleased with those options.

Uninsurance will always be an option, if you prefer to transfer your risks onto society that way.

 

[Immanuel]

The issue that I have in this regard is what the ACA is doing to the unemployment figures. One reason employers aren't hiring is because they still don't know what the hell this bill means and how it is going to affect them in the future.

Given that economists and employers alike point to weak demand as the largest obstacle to hiring, there are significantly bigger economic fish to fry than alleged uncertainty three years down the road.

And what happens in 2014 if I am still unemployed? Our dear President and the morons in Congress of both parties are going to force me to either pay for my own insurance or become indebted to their "generosity" and beg for it. I am not exactly pleased with those options.

Uninsurance will always be an option, if you prefer to transfer your risks onto society that way.

Well, I have been unemployed for 18 months and no one has paid any of my medical bills to date. That doesn't mean I can afford to pay $1250 or more per month for my family when 2014 arrives.

And $1250/month was what I paid in 2009, in 2014 it will more than likely be $1500/month or more. How the hell are the unemployed going to pay that? And uninsurance is not an option... it will be a crime punishable by heavy fines.

Immie

 

[GWV5903]

Think UHC. Extrapolate UHC.

"[T]rying to measure a life of poverty as a collection of stuff isn't really going to come close to measuring that same life as a whole life."

Category: But we knew this already, why does it now matter?

Note my new category of thought, I have always wondered what goes into making a person of conscience and what goes into making a conservative? So the piece below struck me again as well, 'I already knew that.' But a Fox conservative talking head learning something still is worth a thought, if only to say why did she not know that before she knew that. How is it we know anything.

'Falling into the empathy gap'

"Fox, of course, would be the very same news network that endorsed a comparison between birth control and "pedicures," so this is no small change of heart on Kelly's part. The Family and Medical Leave Act, under which she received her post-birth benefits, was introduced by a Democratic representative, approved almost entirely by Democratic legislators (with Republicans voting almost entirely against it*), and signed into law by a Democratic president - and Kelly, believe it or not, doesn't think the bill is liberal enough. As tempting as it is, though, just to deride her for lacking the sort of minimal empathy that we expect from children, I want to add a little bit of a wrinkle to Savage's analysis."

Rust Belt Philosophy: Falling into the empathy gap

You obviously do not understand the meaning of empathy, you infuse people to help themselves, not remain Dependant on others, I know very few people in life that would not help another human being lift their lives up, somehow the liberal ideology continues to only know how to divide...

Even help a Muslim or Black, Mexican, etc up?

I married a Mexican American, some days she would tell you I'm no help at all...

 

[Immanuel]

You obviously do not understand the meaning of empathy, you infuse people to help themselves, not remain Dependant on others, I know very few people in life that would not help another human being lift their lives up, somehow the liberal ideology continues to only know how to divide...

Even help a Muslim or Black, Mexican, etc up?

I married a Mexican American, some days she would tell you I'm no help at all...

She's probably right too.

Immie

 

[Greenbeard]

And $1250/month was what I paid in 2009, in 2014 it will more than likely be $1500/month or more. How the hell are the unemployed going to pay that? And uninsurance is not an option... it will be a crime punishable by heavy fines.

The brief I linked you to is very short--11 pages, with half of that being boxes or tables or graphs. It will give you a very brief and to-the-point picture of what the ACA does. There is no universe in which it demands that an unemployed person pay $1500/month for health insurance. Low incomes qualify for public health insurance, lowish-to-medium incomes can get support (limiting the individual's contribution to a percentage of their income) for private plans sold through an Exchange. Play with KFF's calculator to see what you would realistically be paying annually for health insurance.

Aside from that, you're not characterizing the individual mandate correctly. If your income is below the filing threshold, you're not subject to the mandate. There are no criminal penalties associated with it. The tax penalty is hardly a heavy fine, as it was watered down multiple times. All of this was covered in that brief.

Beginning in 2014, all U.S. citizens and legal residents will be required to maintain minimum essential health coverage through the individual insurance market, insurance exchanges, public programs, or employers, or face a penalty. There are some exemptions, including: individuals who cannot find a health plan that costs less than 8 percent of their income, net of subsidies and employer contributions; people who have incomes below the tax-filing threshold ($9,500 for individuals and $19,000 for couples); and people who have been without insurance for less than three months.

People who are not exempt from the mandate and cannot demonstrate on a tax form that they have health insurance will be required to pay a penalty equal to the greater of $95 or 1 percent of applicable income (i.e., income in excess of the tax-filing threshold) in 2014, $325 or 2 percent of applicable income in 2015, and $695 or 2.5 percent of applicable income in 2016, up to a maximum of $2,085 per family. The tax, which will be assessed through the tax code and applied as an additional amount of federal tax owed, will be prorated for partial years of noncompliance.

 

[Immanuel]

And $1250/month was what I paid in 2009, in 2014 it will more than likely be $1500/month or more. How the hell are the unemployed going to pay that? And uninsurance is not an option... it will be a crime punishable by heavy fines.

The brief I linked you to is very short--11 pages, with half of that being boxes or tables or graphs. It will give you a very brief and to-the-point picture of what the ACA does. There is no universe in which it demands that an unemployed person pay $1500/month for health insurance. Low incomes qualify for public health insurance, lowish-to-medium incomes can get support (limiting the individual's contribution to a percentage of their income) for private plans sold through an Exchange. Play with KFF's calculator to see what you would realistically be paying annually for health insurance.

Aside from that, you're not characterizing the individual mandate correctly. If your income is below the filing threshold, you're not subject to the mandate. There are no criminal penalties associated with it. The tax penalty is hardly a heavy fine, as it was watered down multiple times. All of this was covered in that brief.

Beginning in 2014, all U.S. citizens and legal residents will be required to maintain minimum essential health coverage through the individual insurance market, insurance exchanges, public programs, or employers, or face a penalty. There are some exemptions, including: individuals who cannot find a health plan that costs less than 8 percent of their income, net of subsidies and employer contributions; people who have incomes below the tax-filing threshold ($9,500 for individuals and $19,000 for couples); and people who have been without insurance for less than three months.

People who are not exempt from the mandate and cannot demonstrate on a tax form that they have health insurance will be required to pay a penalty equal to the greater of $95 or 1 percent of applicable income (i.e., income in excess of the tax-filing threshold) in 2014, $325 or 2 percent of applicable income in 2015, and $695 or 2.5 percent of applicable income in 2016, up to a maximum of $2,085 per family. The tax, which will be assessed through the tax code and applied as an additional amount of federal tax owed, will be prorated for partial years of noncompliance.

That again makes the unemployed indebted to the "generosity" of our President and the morons in Congress. Right now, I can't afford $95 or one percent of my income. I have been paying my own way for 18 months and depleting my retirement account. I have been paying penalties to the government for using my own money and paying my bills (and now they want to penalize me further), until last month that is when I finally realized bankruptcy is my only option. Because my wife works a minimum wage job and I have unemployment compensation plus the funds I have removed from my retirement account which gets added to my AGI, our income has been over $19,000 as a couple. Thus, I would suffer the penalties as per your quote. And those penalties are a heavy fine when you are unemployed and trying to survive.

Basically, people in my position are screwed by Obama et al.

And as stated earlier, the ACA is affecting the hiring decisions of employers which only makes things worse.

In re your calculator this is what I get with the following data:

1) 2014 dollars
2) $40000 annual income
3) Age of policyholder - 53
4) Family of 4
5) Employer Coverage Available - No (note if you put yes, it removes the numbers so assuming that the figure below is correct for annual premiums employers will have to pay over $1500/month for coverage. No wonder they are not hiring!)
6) medium regional cost factor (note: this is undefined what does it mean?)

Unsubsidized premium = $18,475/year or $1,539.58/month

Now, If I am lucky and fully subsidized, which would be highly unlikely, my premium would be $1,982 per year. Since, it is unlikely that I would be fully subsidized, my premiums would be somewhere between $165.17 and $1,539.58.

I have to tell you that even the $165/month is stretching my budget right now.

If we change income to $30,000 I get to thank President Obama for his generous medicaid gift.

If I make $35,000 then my monthly premium will be somewhere between $115.67 and 1,539.58. I can't wait!

Immie

 

[dilloduck]

However did liberals determine what kind of lives consevatives have led and the hardships they have encountered ? Might it be that they simply weigh in on the side that thinks the government does a disservice to those in need and those very people might be better helped by those close to them like family or neighbors ?
Could it be that they know that government WASTES millions instead of using it compassionately?

 

[Foxfyre]

However did liberals determine what kind of lives consevatives have led and the hardships they have encountered ? Might it be that they simply weigh in on the side that thinks the government does a disservice to those in need and those very people might be better helped by those close to them like family or neighbors ?
Could it be that they know that government WASTES millions instead of using it compassionately?

Immie just spelled out of many many good intentions resulting in unintended negative consequences. Again it is neither empathy nor virtue that drives us to salve our collective conscience or whatever we are salving by pushing noble sounding titles on programs that are literally creating as many problems as they address.

And it is neither lack of empathy nor lack of virtue that persuades some to oppose bad bills with noble virtuous sounding titles knowing that those bills will likely create as many problems as they address.

Our more fanatical ideologues, in addition to pushing a distorted view of the actual history, want to think that liberals and Democrats are the only empathetic and virtuous segment of our society. They have found various ways to express that for the last couple of days in this thread.

I say it is far more empathetic to understand that for many a job that pays the bills and allows for savings for retirement on down the road is far more preferred than a government handout. It is far more virtuous to promote policy that will promote means for people to provide for themselves rather than promote policy that results in generations of dependency on government programs and creates whole societies of virtually unemployable people.

Not to mention policy that saddles future generations with more and more crushing debt with each passing day.

 

[Bfgrn]

However did liberals determine what kind of lives consevatives have led and the hardships they have encountered ? Might it be that they simply weigh in on the side that thinks the government does a disservice to those in need and those very people might be better helped by those close to them like family or neighbors ?
Could it be that they know that government WASTES millions instead of using it compassionately?

Immie just spelled out of many many good intentions resulting in unintended negative consequences. Again it is neither empathy nor virtue that drives us to salve our collective conscience or whatever we are salving by pushing noble sounding titles on programs that are literally creating as many problems as they address.

And it is neither lack of empathy nor lack of virtue that persuades some to oppose bad bills with noble virtuous sounding titles knowing that those bills will likely create as many problems as they address.

Our more fanatical ideologues, in addition to pushing a distorted view of the actual history, want to think that liberals and Democrats are the only empathetic and virtuous segment of our society. They have found various ways to express that for the last couple of days in this thread.

I say it is far more empathetic to understand that for many a job that pays the bills and allows for savings for retirement on down the road is far more preferred than a government handout. It is far more virtuous to promote policy that will promote means for people to provide for themselves rather than promote policy that results in generations of dependency on government programs and creates whole societies of virtually unemployable people.

Not to mention policy that saddles future generations with more and more crushing debt with each passing day.

Here are some FACTS for you on what the War on Poverty.

When President Kennedy's brother-in law Sargent Shriver accepted President Johnson's challenge and took on the 'War on Poverty' the first thing he discovered was rather startling and disturbing. Half of the Americans living in poverty were children. Another large segment were elderly and another segment were mentally and/or physically disabled. So a HUGE segment of the poor fit the TRUE definition of a dependent. So there is an obligation as a civil society to make sure those real dependents are not trampled on or extinguished.

To address some of the players in your fairy tale, voila! We have an unabashed flaming liberal...Sargent Shriver. But I hate to disappoint you. Sargent Shriver hated welfare and had no intention of creating a handout program. He didn't believe in handouts, he believed in community action, opportunity, responsibility, and empowerment.

The 'War on Poverty' was called the Office of Economic Opportunity. The core principles were opportunity, responsibility, community and empowerment. The program's goal was maximum feasible participation. One of the concepts of empowerment was poor people had a right to one-third of the seats on every local poverty program board. It was a community based program that focused on education as the keys to the city. Programs such as VISTA, Job Corps, Community Action Program, and Head Start were created to increase opportunity for the poor so they could pull themselves out of poverty with a hand UP, not a hand out. Even when Johnson effectively pulled the plug on the War on Poverty to fund the war in Vietnam, Shriver fought on and won. During the Shriver years more Americans got out of poverty than during any similar time in our history. (The Clinton years - employing the same philosophy - were the second best.) Ref

Here is one of the agencies created by the WOP...

Job Corps is a program administered by the United States Department of Labor that offers free-of-charge education and vocational training to youth ages 16 to 24.

Job Corps offers career planning, on-the-job training, job placement, residential housing, food service, driver's education, basic health and dental care, a bi-weekly basic living allowance and clothing allowance. Some centers offer childcare programs for single parents as well.

Besides vocational training, the Job Corps program also offers academic training, including basic reading and math, GED attainment, college preparatory, and Limited English Proficiency courses. Some centers also offer programs that allow students to remain in residence at their center while attending college.[citation needed] Job Corps provides career counseling and transition support to its students for up to one year after they graduate from the program.

Career paths

Career paths offered by Job Corps include:

Advanced manufacturing

Communication design
Drafting
Electronic assembly
Machine appliance repair
Machining
Welding
Manufacturing technology
Sign, billboard, and display

Automotive and machine repair

Automobile technician
General services technician
Collision repair and refinish
Heavy construction equipment mechanic
Diesel mechanic
Medium/heavy truck repair
Electronics tech
Stationary engineering

Construction

Bricklaying
Carpentry
Cement masonry
Concrete and terrazzo
Construction craft laborer
Electrical
Electrical overhead line
Facilities maintenance
Floor covering
Glazing
HVAC
Industrial engineering technician
Licensed electrician (bilingual)
Mechanical engineering technician
Painting
Plastering
Plumbing
Roto-Rooter plumbing
Tile setting

Extension programs

Advanced Career Training (ACT)
General Educational Development (GED)
Commercial driver's license (CDL)
Off-Center Training (OCT Program)
High school diploma (HSD Program)

Finance and Business

Accounting services
Business management
Clerical occupations
Legal secretary
Insurance and financial services
Marketing
Medical insurance specialist
Office administration
Paralegal
Purchasing

Health care/allied health professions

Clinical medical assistant
Dental assistant
EKG technician
Emergency medical technician
Exercise/massage therapy
Hemodialysis technician
Licensed practical/vocational nurse
Medical office support
Nurse assistant/home health aide
Opticianry
Pharmacy technician
Phlebotomy
Physical therapy assistant
Rehabilitation therapy
Rehabilitation technician
Registered nurse
Respiratory therapy
Sterile processing
Surgical technician

Homeland security

Corrections officer
Seamanship
Security and protective services

Hospitality

Culinary arts
Hotel and lodging

Information technology

A+ Microsoft MSCE
Computer Networking/Cisco
Computer systems administrator
Computer support specialist
Computer technician
Integrated system tech
Network cable installation
Visual communications

Renewable resources and energy

Forest conservation and urban forestry
Firefighting
Wastewater
Landscaping

Retail sales and services

Behavioral health aide
Criminal justice
Child development
Residential advisor
Cosmetology
Retail sales

Transportation

Asphalt paving
Material and distribution operations
Clerical occupations
Heavy equipment operations
Roustabout operator
Heavy truck driving
TCU administrative clerk

 

[edjax1952]

Empathy comes from the heart, not from an edict from on high.

Then again, the left has shown themselves to be in possession of the tiniest hearts out there -as evidenced by the widely circulated annual lists of political types who give the most and least to private charities- so it's little surprise that they'd project their callousness onto everyone else.

You guys keep posting this crap like a badge of courage or something. Speaking as someone who's actually given to charity..and worked for charity..making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation should be a given.

There is absolutely no reason, none, nadda..that any American citizen should starve, be denied health care or live in squalor.

"Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" is pure and unadulterated socialism if the idea is implemented into law.

In the original post there was an article cited. In that article it stated

This is one of the reasons I always say that good philosophy cannot operate without good facts underlying it. We philosophers have a reputation for dealing with only the least substantial and most conjectural of matters, but there are almost always some tangible, observable, testable facts that motivate or inspire our reasoning. Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous, like the human dignity account of ethics or the idea that we should do more to help the rich than the poor.

"Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous...."

We live in a Democratic Republic. That Democratic Republic was instituted in the premise that all men are created equal and that all men had a right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. Nowhere in the founding of the country does it say that we should be "Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" as a matter of fact it avoided that senario.

I hope I will not see the day that the United States of America goes socialist.

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "So what...

... `long as its happenin' to a lib'ral...

... who cares?

 

[edjax1952]

Social Justice vs Equal Justice « American Ideas and Solutions

Social justice is based on the idea that a group of people are entitled to certain treatment or resources due to circumstances other than what the general population experiences. It usually involves taking resources, provided by someone else, and providing them to the group of people. It also involves allowing for different treatment or rights when a group of people do not have access to liberties, rights or resources due to a disadvantaged position in society. It requires government to dictate conditions in order to regulate private affairs and gain “equality” for the disadvantaged group of people. This is one main tool of politicians who call themselves Progressives. Why are they called Progressives? One brick at a time they progressively dismantle the original foundation of our nation, based on freedom and equality for all, to gain government control over each of the issues brought to “social justice”. The government must regulate these issues in order to maintain “equality” through “social justice”. In order to maintain social justice, the government must regulate the behavior of the people to comply with each issue addressed. Each time a law is passed in the name of Social Justice, there is a chip taken away from the liberties and rights of someone. I submit that this practice must be stopped in order to preserve the original foundation of our great country! Read Wikipedia’s definition of Social Justice: Social justice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[midcan5]

Fighting against poor legislation is as helpful to the poor and middle class as authoring legislation if not more important.

Immie

Wow! That line could sum up so much of modern America, it contains the 'I got mine' attitude of today, the negativity of hope, it assumes we have done enough, in its background is an attitude of mild, or maybe not so mild, social Darwinism. Immie as a religious person you surprise me. I have always wondered at the change in religion from help to defeatism. When and how did that happen?

Taming the Savage Market


The Social Welfare State, beyond Ideology: Scientific American

 

[cloudy]

Empathy comes from the heart, not from an edict from on high.

Then again, the left has shown themselves to be in possession of the tiniest hearts out there -as evidenced by the widely circulated annual lists of political types who give the most and least to private charities- so it's little surprise that they'd project their callousness onto everyone else.

Ahh yes, conservative empathy:
Racine Post: Billionaire Curt Johnson charged with sexually assaulting a teenager
Give them your weak and vulnerable, so they can take advantage of the SYSTEM.

 

[Bfgrn]

Empathy comes from the heart, not from an edict from on high.

Then again, the left has shown themselves to be in possession of the tiniest hearts out there -as evidenced by the widely circulated annual lists of political types who give the most and least to private charities- so it's little surprise that they'd project their callousness onto everyone else.

You guys keep posting this crap like a badge of courage or something. Speaking as someone who's actually given to charity..and worked for charity..making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation should be a given.

There is absolutely no reason, none, nadda..that any American citizen should starve, be denied health care or live in squalor.

"Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" is pure and unadulterated socialism if the idea is implemented into law.

In the original post there was an article cited. In that article it stated

This is one of the reasons I always say that good philosophy cannot operate without good facts underlying it. We philosophers have a reputation for dealing with only the least substantial and most conjectural of matters, but there are almost always some tangible, observable, testable facts that motivate or inspire our reasoning. Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous, like the human dignity account of ethics or the idea that we should do more to help the rich than the poor.

"Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous...."

We live in a Democratic Republic. That Democratic Republic was instituted in the premise that all men are created equal and that all men had a right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. Nowhere in the founding of the country does it say that we should be "Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" as a matter of fact it avoided that senario.

I hope I will not see the day that the United States of America goes socialist.

Choke on this...

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[edjax1952]

You guys keep posting this crap like a badge of courage or something. Speaking as someone who's actually given to charity..and worked for charity..making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation should be a given.

There is absolutely no reason, none, nadda..that any American citizen should starve, be denied health care or live in squalor.

"Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" is pure and unadulterated socialism if the idea is implemented into law.

In the original post there was an article cited. In that article it stated

This is one of the reasons I always say that good philosophy cannot operate without good facts underlying it. We philosophers have a reputation for dealing with only the least substantial and most conjectural of matters, but there are almost always some tangible, observable, testable facts that motivate or inspire our reasoning. Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous, like the human dignity account of ethics or the idea that we should do more to help the rich than the poor.

"Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous...."

We live in a Democratic Republic. That Democratic Republic was instituted in the premise that all men are created equal and that all men had a right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. Nowhere in the founding of the country does it say that we should be "Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" as a matter of fact it avoided that senario.

I hope I will not see the day that the United States of America goes socialist.

Choke on this...

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

In all of these rights and entitlements of legislation, nowhere does it preclude my right to the persuit of happines. I still stand strong on my ideas that the present generation is in the midst of destroying the structure that made America great. If they cannot see the result of those actions, maybe it is the responsibility of myself and people who are like minded to bring it to their attention.

 

[edjax1952]

"Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" is pure and unadulterated socialism if the idea is implemented into law.

In the original post there was an article cited. In that article it stated

"Get these facts right and you can reach some elegant and surprising conclusions, but get them wrong and you end up with ideas that are totally ridiculous...."

We live in a Democratic Republic. That Democratic Republic was instituted in the premise that all men are created equal and that all men had a right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. Nowhere in the founding of the country does it say that we should be "Making sure all our citizens share in the wealth of the nation" as a matter of fact it avoided that senario.

I hope I will not see the day that the United States of America goes socialist.

Choke on this...

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

"In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

In all of these rights and entitlements of legislation, nowhere does it preclude my right to the persuit of happines. I still stand strong on my ideas that the present generation is in the midst of destroying the structure that made America great. If they cannot see the result of those actions, maybe it is the responsibility of myself and people who are like minded to bring it to their attention.

Choke on this...

In order to choke on it I must try to swallow it first. I will not swallow it or try to. I give people the right to pass laws in a lawfull manner. But I do not have to agree with them or tolerate their ligitimacy in our culture by standing aside and remaining silent. Socialism did not work for the USSR and it will not work in America.