Conservatives say Obama is like Neville Chamberlain. They said the same about Reagan.

[NYcarbineer]

It is said that humans are able to learn from the mistakes of others.

Chamberlain did not understand that his appeasement would make his name a term of mockery for generations.

Obama should have read about Chamberlain as part of his much-vaunted "education".

So it raises the questions:

1. Was he never taught anything about Chamberlain?

2. Was he unable to learn anything from Chamberlain's "experience" and, if so, is not his "humanity" brought into question?

The two eras are not comparable.

 

[HenryBHough]

The two eras are not comparable.

True.

The planet-level destruction Obama is toying with through appeasement has far worse potential than the mere national level stuff Chamberlain's experiment involved.

 

[JoeB131]

One could say that they would be wrong though Hitler was going to continue his aggression agreement or not. The person who understood this best Churchill was essentially run out of the government for trying to convince them of that.

I don't know if I would make that argument, but Pat Buchanan discusses it at length, that it was foolish for Chamberlain to give a blank check to the Colonels in Warsaw over the Danzig Corridor, as he had no real way of backing that up.

Part of the problem is that many in the west considered Stalin a bigger threat than the AXIS before 1939, which is why HItler and Mussolini and the Japanese were allowed to get away with so much nonsense.

 

[Synthaholic]

Once again, Reagan-love has clouded the memories of conservatives who just can't remember anything negative about Hollywood's most famous B actor. But at the time, conservatives were very critical of The Gipper and didn't think he was very conservative at all!

Are conservatives dishonest, or do they just name-call anyone whom they disagree with?

Conservatives say Obama is like Neville Chamberlain. They said the same about Reagan.


The accused: Neville Chamberlain
Who: Neville Chamberlain, prime minister of the United Kingdom from 1937 to 1940.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Was in fact Neville Chamberlain.
Accuracy of accusations: Very accurate.

Chamberlain famously tried, unsuccessfully, to avert war by appeasing Hitler with the Munich Agreement. That agreement gave Hitler the Sudetenland, a large chunk of Czechoslovakia. The plan failed spectacularly: Hitler was not satisfied with the Sudetenland, and soon invaded Poland.



The accused: Ronald Reagan
Who: Ronald Reagan, 40th president of the United States.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Negotiated with the Soviet Union.
Accuracy of accusations: Not accurate.

Reagan is now the patron saint of the American right. But during his presidency he was accused of Chamberlain-style appeasement because of his negotiations with the Soviet Union. In 1985 Reagan met with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev at the Geneva Summit, where the two leaders discussed the arms race, the Strategic Defense Initiative (the anti-ballistic missile system also known as "Star Wars"), and human rights. Newt Gingrich called the meeting ''the most dangerous summit for the West since Adolf Hitler met with Chamberlain in 1938 at Munich."

And in 1988, Conservative Caucus Chair Howard Phillips ran an ad that compared Reagan signing the INF arms-control treaty with the Soviet Union to Chamberlain signing the Munich Agreement with Hitler in 1938. "Appeasement Is As Unwise In 1988 As In 1938," said the ad, which showed pictures of Chamberlain, Hitler, Reagan and Gorbachev.

The accusations against Reagan are a clear reminder that the frequent cries of "Munich! Munich! Muuuniccccchhhh!" in American politics aren't really about appeasement: they're just code for "negotiation with dictators we don't like."



The accused: Barack Obama
Who: Barack Obama, 44th president of the United States.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Willingness to hold talks with Iran.
Accuracy of accusations: Not accurate.​

Obama's willingness to negotiate with Iran, as well as with other hostile regimes around the world, has led to a steady stream of Chamberlain comparisons since before he even became president. In 2008, then-President Bush gave a speech in Israel that was a thinly veiled attack on Obama, who at the time was a US senator and presidential candidate, and had argued that the US should hold direct talks with countries like Iran and Syria.​

"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said in the speech. "We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.'"


Get it? A SENATOR? Just like ANOTHER SENATOR WE KNOW?


(Bush's speech also prompted the famously uncomfortable Hardball segment in which conservative radio host Kevin James criticized Obama for being like Neville Chamberlain, but turned out not to have any idea what Chamberlain had actually done.)


The Munich comparisons started cropping up again as the nuclear negotiations with Iran progressed. In 2013, Gingrich said the Iran negotiations were "the Munich of the Middle East,"and that "This is not a negotiation, this is a surrender to the Iranian dictatorship."


And just last week, Republican Senator Mark Kirk compared the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program to Chamberlain's negotiations with Hitler, telling Politico that Chamberlain "got more out of Hitler at Munich" than the Obama administration's negotiators had gotten out of Iran.

Somebody namedHoward said reagan was Chamberlain and you're holding the rest of us to account for his statement? Nonsense. I've never said or thought that. Now, every conservative alive knows Obama Hussein is pulling a Neville Chamberlain.

Also, someone named Newt.

You know what's funny one the most fervent Israel haters on the board posts as if he has concern for Israel

I don't hate Israel. I just don't see them as any more important than any other ally, and a lot less important than some.

But I'm not an Israel-Firster like you, pledging allegiance to another country while enjoying the protection and comfort and safety of America.

Shut up ....you support Obama's weakening of our country globally ...the only thing you really support is leftism

Yeah, you love Israel so much you live in another country.

You're a fake and a coward.

 

[Synthaholic]

Obama spent most of his first term on a non-stop worldwide apology tour. ...

At least President Obama spent most of his second term preparing to qualify for the PGA Tour.

.

As opposed to Reagan, who spent most of his second term engaging in criminal activity with Iran, our sworn enemy, and then forgetting all about it. Literally.

Or Bush, who spent most of his second term fucking up the response to Katrina, trying to get his cleaning lady appointed to SCOTUS, selling our ports to the Arabs, and crashing the economy.

There must be a place called the United States on Mars because you people don't know shit about our history.

Tell me what I got wrong.

 

[Synthaholic]

Obama spent most of his first term on a non-stop worldwide apology tour. He traded half a dozen enemy generals for an AWOL private. He insulted our only ally in the Mid-East and now he is trying to authorize nuclear weapons technology for a country that chants "death to America". Reagan said "Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall" and it happened. Who is more like Chamberlain?

Obama in his first term was able to both vacation and fix the economy the repubs left us. bush was able to vacation for a whole month and allow 9-11 to happen on his watch. All in one year .

Obama "fixed" the economy alright. 10.5% unemployment. Poor and middle class falling behind the rich. 18 trillion in debt now and rising.

It's 5.5%, dumbass.

 

[Synthaholic]

Bush was out in front of Katrina.

You're a fucking idiot. But that was pretty funny.

 

[Synthaholic]

They told us Saddam was the next Hitler too.

So why do you continue to support Democrats after they lied to you like that?

Because Republicans started the war.

Democrats voted for it in Congress.

You keep saying it but it's still false.

 

[Synthaholic]

Reagan cut and ran from Beirut.

Correct. Reagan was weak in the face of a direct attack on our military.

 

[Synthaholic]

Reagan used to be a Democrat......and he evolved.

Show me where he ever denounced his prior job of president of the actors union.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reagan cut and ran from Beirut.

Correct. Reagan was weak in the face of a direct attack on our military.

the shame of Lebanon

and

1983 attack on a civilian airline that killed a sitting US Congressman -- a GOP far right lunatic by the name of Lawrence McDonald
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

When Reagan Cut and Run Foreign Policy

 

[Synthaholic]

Once again, Reagan-love has clouded the memories of conservatives who just can't remember anything negative about Hollywood's most famous B actor. But at the time, conservatives were very critical of The Gipper and didn't think he was very conservative at all!

Are conservatives dishonest, or do they just name-call anyone whom they disagree with?

Conservatives say Obama is like Neville Chamberlain. They said the same about Reagan.


The accused: Neville Chamberlain
Who: Neville Chamberlain, prime minister of the United Kingdom from 1937 to 1940.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Was in fact Neville Chamberlain.
Accuracy of accusations: Very accurate.

Chamberlain famously tried, unsuccessfully, to avert war by appeasing Hitler with the Munich Agreement. That agreement gave Hitler the Sudetenland, a large chunk of Czechoslovakia. The plan failed spectacularly: Hitler was not satisfied with the Sudetenland, and soon invaded Poland.



The accused: Ronald Reagan
Who: Ronald Reagan, 40th president of the United States.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Negotiated with the Soviet Union.
Accuracy of accusations: Not accurate.

Reagan is now the patron saint of the American right. But during his presidency he was accused of Chamberlain-style appeasement because of his negotiations with the Soviet Union. In 1985 Reagan met with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev at the Geneva Summit, where the two leaders discussed the arms race, the Strategic Defense Initiative (the anti-ballistic missile system also known as "Star Wars"), and human rights. Newt Gingrich called the meeting ''the most dangerous summit for the West since Adolf Hitler met with Chamberlain in 1938 at Munich."

And in 1988, Conservative Caucus Chair Howard Phillips ran an ad that compared Reagan signing the INF arms-control treaty with the Soviet Union to Chamberlain signing the Munich Agreement with Hitler in 1938. "Appeasement Is As Unwise In 1988 As In 1938," said the ad, which showed pictures of Chamberlain, Hitler, Reagan and Gorbachev.

The accusations against Reagan are a clear reminder that the frequent cries of "Munich! Munich! Muuuniccccchhhh!" in American politics aren't really about appeasement: they're just code for "negotiation with dictators we don't like."



The accused: Barack Obama
Who: Barack Obama, 44th president of the United States.
Reasons for being accused of being Neville Chamberlain: Willingness to hold talks with Iran.
Accuracy of accusations: Not accurate.​

Obama's willingness to negotiate with Iran, as well as with other hostile regimes around the world, has led to a steady stream of Chamberlain comparisons since before he even became president. In 2008, then-President Bush gave a speech in Israel that was a thinly veiled attack on Obama, who at the time was a US senator and presidential candidate, and had argued that the US should hold direct talks with countries like Iran and Syria.​

"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said in the speech. "We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.'"


Get it? A SENATOR? Just like ANOTHER SENATOR WE KNOW?


(Bush's speech also prompted the famously uncomfortable Hardball segment in which conservative radio host Kevin James criticized Obama for being like Neville Chamberlain, but turned out not to have any idea what Chamberlain had actually done.)


The Munich comparisons started cropping up again as the nuclear negotiations with Iran progressed. In 2013, Gingrich said the Iran negotiations were "the Munich of the Middle East,"and that "This is not a negotiation, this is a surrender to the Iranian dictatorship."


And just last week, Republican Senator Mark Kirk compared the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program to Chamberlain's negotiations with Hitler, telling Politico that Chamberlain "got more out of Hitler at Munich" than the Obama administration's negotiators had gotten out of Iran.

A good sign of desperation,dragging up a quote from one guy over 30 years ago,with no real relevance today at all. But that's what simple party hacks do.

He ran for the Republican nomination in 2012 and won South Carolina. Sean Hannity calls him a genius.

He's very relevant.

 

[Synthaholic]

Reagan's accomplishment meant are legendary and a matter of historical record. Something more intangible is that after a series of failed presidencies, begining witer, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and ending in Carter, Reagan was a breath of fresh air and where he went out to change America, he changed the world.

Best damn president anyone alive today has ever seen.

Reagan had the most corrupt administration of all. Most convictions. Reagan tripled the national debt. Did Obama triple the debt he inherited? No ; Keep repeating opinion, I'll keep repeating the truth. Link below. Now post some links of the felonies and convictions in the Obama administration. If you can.

List of Reagan administration convictions.

No. Sorry. Immature partisan dingbats don't get to rewrite history with idiotic links. Those of us who lived through the Reagan administration are not children to be duped.

OK, which of the people listed weren't convicted?

You must like people handing your ass to you.

 

[Synthaholic]

Reagan cut and ran from Beirut.

Correct. Reagan was weak in the face of a direct attack on our military.

the shame of Lebanon

and

1983 attack on a civilian airline that killed a sitting US Congressman -- a GOP far right lunatic by the name of Lawrence McDonald
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Shot down by the Soviets, no less.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Reagan's top military guy
When Reagan Cut and Run Foreign Policy

As then-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. John Vessey declared: "It is beneath our dignity to retaliate against the terrorists who blew up the Marine barracks."

---

on Feb. 4, 1984, Reagan stated something frequently heard in debates over Afghanistan and other theaters of conflict today — if the United States withdraws, "we’ll be sending one signal to terrorists everywhere: They can gain by waging war against innocent people…. If we’re to be secure in our homes and in the world, we must stand together against those who threaten us." Yet, just three days later, on Feb. 7, Reagan ordered the Marines to "redeploy" to their ships offshore — which was actually a full withdrawal achieved in three weeks.​

 

[jasonnfree]

Reagan's accomplishment meant are legendary and a matter of historical record. Something more intangible is that after a series of failed presidencies, begining witer, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and ending in Carter, Reagan was a breath of fresh air and where he went out to change America, he changed the world.

Best damn president anyone alive today has ever seen.

Reagan had the most corrupt administration of all. Most convictions. Reagan tripled the national debt. Did Obama triple the debt he inherited? No ; Keep repeating opinion, I'll keep repeating the truth. Link below. Now post some links of the felonies and convictions in the Obama administration. If you can.

List of Reagan administration convictions.

No. Sorry. Immature partisan dingbats don't get to rewrite history with idiotic links. Those of us who lived through the Reagan administration are not children to be duped.

I was already of middle age during Reagan's terms as president, and fully cognizant of what was going on. Seems like you weren't. The corruption of his administration, as well as Iran-Contra, is common knowledge to the knowledgeable among us, of which you're obviously not a member. The name you gave yourself should be a clue to your intelligence level. I'll not waste any more time trying to educate you.

Obviously, you've been licked all over. Reagan destroyed you dream. Get over it. It's finished!

I'll try to educate you one more time if that's possible. Read the link below. or post a link that contradicts what I say about the criminality of the reagan administration. This was information that everybody knew about who were adults and followed politics in the 80's and 90's. I swear, the more you right wingers get beaten over the head with facts, the more you deny them and just come on with the name calling, because it looks like that's all you have to offer to the conversation.

The Great President Ronald Reagan Pt. 1

 

[Meathead]

Reagan's accomplishment meant are legendary and a matter of historical record. Something more intangible is that after a series of failed presidencies, begining witer, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and ending in Carter, Reagan was a breath of fresh air and where he went out to change America, he changed the world.

Best damn president anyone alive today has ever seen.

Reagan had the most corrupt administration of all. Most convictions. Reagan tripled the national debt. Did Obama triple the debt he inherited? No ; Keep repeating opinion, I'll keep repeating the truth. Link below. Now post some links of the felonies and convictions in the Obama administration. If you can.

List of Reagan administration convictions.

No. Sorry. Immature partisan dingbats don't get to rewrite history with idiotic links. Those of us who lived through the Reagan administration are not children to be duped.

OK, which of the people listed weren't convicted?

You must like people handing your ass to you.

Reagan handed you your ass three decades ago and you're still bleating.

Now that's one hell of legacy. You can hardly argue about how consequential he was.

 

[jasonnfree]

Reagan's accomplishment meant are legendary and a matter of historical record. Something more intangible is that after a series of failed presidencies, begining witer, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and ending in Carter, Reagan was a breath of fresh air and where he went out to change America, he changed the world.

Best damn president anyone alive today has ever seen.

Reagan had the most corrupt administration of all. Most convictions. Reagan tripled the national debt. Did Obama triple the debt he inherited? No ; Keep repeating opinion, I'll keep repeating the truth. Link below. Now post some links of the felonies and convictions in the Obama administration. If you can.

List of Reagan administration convictions.

No. Sorry. Immature partisan dingbats don't get to rewrite history with idiotic links. Those of us who lived through the Reagan administration are not children to be duped.

OK, which of the people listed weren't convicted?

You must like people handing your ass to you.

Reagan handed you your ass three decades ago and you're still bleating.

Now that's one hell of legacy. You can hardly argue about how consequential he was.

didn't follow the link?

 

[jasonnfree]

Reagan's accomplishment meant are legendary and a matter of historical record. Something more intangible is that after a series of failed presidencies, begining witer, LBJ, Nixon, Ford and ending in Carter, Reagan was a breath of fresh air and where he went out to change America, he changed the world.

Best damn president anyone alive today has ever seen.

Reagan had the most corrupt administration of all. Most convictions. Reagan tripled the national debt. Did Obama triple the debt he inherited? No ; Keep repeating opinion, I'll keep repeating the truth. Link below. Now post some links of the felonies and convictions in the Obama administration. If you can.

List of Reagan administration convictions.

No. Sorry. Immature partisan dingbats don't get to rewrite history with idiotic links. Those of us who lived through the Reagan administration are not children to be duped.

OK, which of the people listed weren't convicted?

You must like people handing your ass to you.

Reagan handed you your ass three decades ago and you're still bleating.

Now that's one hell of legacy. You can hardly argue about how consequential he was.

I used to own a pre school (2-K) and I swear some of those kids had more intelligence than you do.