CDZ Could (actual) Conservatives support this kind of single payer?

[Donald H]

Words mean things. But to guys like me who don't subscribe to either party, this video explains it all. As in how it doesn't matter which side thinks they're right or wrong. The far right and the far left is just wrong for most people. No matter what side a person is on, they still don't want the government interfering with their lives unless they need/want something.

Government interfering with your lives has become a 'catch phrase' that has never been explained as to it's meaning. How could it possibly fir for HC?
Somebody needs to administer it in a cost effective and regulated way and only government has the power to do that.

The guy who goes in for an appendectomy comes out with no bill because the system is billed. And the system if funded by the taxpayer on an equitable basis.

The government has a schedule that limits the price of the surgery and the patient isn't hit with a bill for $200,000 or more?

 

[PoliticalChic]

China will likely rule the world, but it will be done by peaceful means. That's being demonstrated in Afghanistan before the US is even able to scramble out with it's tail between it's legs. Russia likewise.

I just hope ISIS isn't able to take down a C-130 with a S.A.M. that's loaded with 600 Marines! That would bring on carpet bombing of the civilian population in return.

"China will likely rule the world, but it will be done by peaceful means."


Gads, you're a fool.

I have rarely found any pro-China communists, like you, who aren't stupid.
Raise your paw.

. "GeneralChi Haotian is ageneralof thePeople's Liberation Army." Chi Haotian - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"The following is the actual text of a speech delivered in December, 2005 by Comrade Chi Haotian the Vice-Chairman of China's Military Commission to top officers and generals. Keep in mind that China has for many years advocated deceitful and covert warfare against its enemies.... It is historical destiny that China and United States will come into unavoidable confrontation on a narrow path and fight....We still need America. Therefore, we must do everything we can to promote our relationship with America, learn from ... Only by using non-destructive weapons that can kill many people will we be able to reserve America for ourselves.... It is indeed brutal to kill one or two hundred million Americans. But that is the only path that will secure a Chinese century,..."
Speech by Comrade Chi Haotian Vice-Chairman of China s Military Commission

 

[PoliticalChic]

I can see some truth in 'faith' playing a part in my beliefs. I can profess and proclaim a lot of 'faith' in science.

But it's faith that is subject to being modified as science learns more and more.
Can you say the same about the 'Adam and Eve' line of bible bunk?

"....as science learns more and more."

1. As science learns more, it comes closer and closer to the bible.



2. Modern science has largely revealed the earth’s history with respect to the land and the seas. Coincidently, the first chapter of the Bible relates a formation, a creation narrative, strangely similar to scientific understanding.


a. Genesis 1: 6-10…”And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dryland appear: and it was so. And God called the dry landEarth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it wasgood.


b. “The formation of the sea as well as the land is chosen as the second stage in the creation on the Bible’s first page. Modern science reveals that land and sea certainly were in place before the next stage in the scientific account of the history of the universe.” Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” p.54. What a coincidence….or confluence.


Curious, the author of Genesis lived in a landlocked region; and Moses wandered in the desert, not along the coast. Yet…sea and land appear in this prominent position in Genesis. Must be a coincidence….



3. The opening page of Genesis asserts that plant life appeared after the seas were formed, and names specifically, grass, herbs and fruit trees. According to the author of Genesis, this is the stage where life actually begins: this is the first mention life of any kind. Plant life. Yet, the simple forms of life that are considered plant life were not discovered until a couple of millennia after Genesis was completed. So…how come Genesis mentions grass, herbs, and fruit trees at precisely this moment on the creation narrative? Parker, “The Genesis Enigma,” chapter four.


a. Genesis 1: 11-12 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


b. “ From about 400 million years back to 600 million years, all kinds of complex multicellular life would have been confined to the waters of the earth….Our world's ecosystems depend upon photosynthesis to construct the fuel that all life runs on; in an ancient world with conditions similar to today's, you would need plants (as organisms that can make complex "fuel" molecules using simple building blocks and energy available from the environment, plants are known as one type of autotrophs, or "self-feeders") to evolve first, or there would be no bottom link to the food chain.” Biology of Animals & Plants - Origins & History of Life on Earth



4. Track the events in the creation account of Genesis and it’s amazing how closely the events conform to the current view of modern science. An explosion- the universe – oceans/land - plants- …And next, in verse 20, we find: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.


Kind of unusual…since the author of Genesis, and, if we are to believe that the first one to speak those words, Moses, didn’t really live in a habitat that one might call ‘sea side.’


Would have been understandable if this space in the Bible had, instead, have focused on the numbers of land mammals, birds, or insects found in ancient Israel, wouldn’t it? But, instead, marine organisms are specifically named: ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,…’


Wouldn’t it be interesting if science find lots and lots of marine organisms extant at this point? Imagine if Genesis actually parallels the history of life on earth as expounded by science. Be a heck of a coincidence.

a. A truly important development took place some 521 million years ago, in the geological period known as the Cambrian. “The most abundant and diverse animals of Cambrian time were the trilobites. Trilobites had long antennae, compound eyes, many jointed legs, and a hard exoskeleton like many of their modern arthropod relatives, such as lobsters, crabs, and insects. The Cambrian is sometimes called the "Age of Trilobites"…” Redirect


b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime: “If the theory [evolution] be true it is indisputable that before the lowest Cambrian stratum was deposited ... the world swarmed with living creatures. [Yet] to the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these earliest periods. . . I can give no satisfactory answer. The case at present must remain inexplicable.” http://www.paleosoc.org/Oldest_Fossil.pdf

....life at this stage, about 500 million years ago, was entirely marine.

How could the Genesis writer have gotten this right?

That writer…he’s landlocked, knows little of diversity….what are the odds that ‘chance’ is the answer?


What are the odds?

 

[Mac-7]

I just hope ISIS isn't able to take down a C-130 with a S.A.M. that's loaded with 600 Marines!

Sorry to dis appoint but that will NEVER happen

 

[YoursTruly]

I can see some truth in 'faith' playing a part in my beliefs. I can profess and proclaim a lot of 'faith' in science.

But it's faith that is subject to being modified as science learns more and more.
Can you say the same about the 'Adam and Eve' line of bible bunk?

How is the story of Adam and Eve going to improve? There's no way anything about it is going to change.

 

[Mac-7]

Gads, you're a fool.

No shit

but there is a commie game plan for exactly what Donald is predicting

china is building a dominating military that smaller nations will be unable to resist

which of course depends on continued trade with the west

 

[YoursTruly]

Government interfering with your lives has become a 'catch phrase' that has never been explained as to it's meaning. How could it possibly fir for HC?

I can't predict the future. Nor can I speak for anyone else and their situations with their MP's. I know of no time that I've been adversely affected by any government rule or regulation, when it comes to HC. But that's just me. And I'm not on Medicare. There are some on medicare that could probably give you some examples.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No shit

but there is a commie game plan for exactly what Donald is predicting

china is building a dominating military that smaller nations will be unable to resist

which of course depends on continued trade with the west

Can There Be Too Much Capitalism?

1.Well…what are the choices? There was one of the earliest economies, where folks traded the only thing they had….themselves. That was slavery. We moved on to feudalism…”peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Donald H]

I can't predict the future. Nor can I speak for anyone else and their situations with their MP's. I know of no time that I've been adversely affected by any government rule or regulation, when it comes to HC. But that's just me. And I'm not on Medicare. There are some on medicare that could probably give you some examples.

If you ask for bad examples you'll get them because everybody who upholds the shitty status quo will have one prepared for the situation, that suits their politics.
Rating medical outcome for the entire country is the only objective answer.

 

[Donald H]

Can There Be Too Much Capitalism?

1.Well…what are the choices? There was one of the earliest economies, where folks traded the only thing they had….themselves. That was slavery. We moved on to feudalism…”peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the...

www.usmessageboard.com

There can be too much capitalism that has no limitations imposed on it. Socialist policies must becaome a part of every country's capitalist system.

That's the compromise that makes capitalism work so well. China combines that with communism, while other countries combine capitalism with democratically elected government.

While Americ appears to be struggling with accepting the results of democratic elections, along with unrestrained capitalism with no limits!

 

[Donald H]

How is the story of Adam and Eve going to improve? There's no way anything about it is going to change.

Yes, that's the point. When you start with bible nonsense that's completely ridiculous there's no way to fix it so that people can keep faith in it as science destroys everything about it.

 

[Donald H]

b. No earlier fossils were found during Darwin’s lifetime:

That's just plain silly.

 

[YoursTruly]

Yes, that's the point. When you start with bible nonsense that's completely ridiculous there's no way to fix it so that people can keep faith in it as science destroys everything about it.

I'm not sure how science and add or subtract anything about the bible.

I'm agnostic. Fact is, everything in the bible could be fact or fiction. I believe it to be fiction. But I wasn't there. None of us were.
Also, a god could've created everything, including life. a trillion years ago. And things happened that created the big boom, that created the earth. Microscopic life somehow survived. And evolution came after the earth developed a livable planet. Scientist and religious folks may both be right.

There's nothing about this can be solved, simply because science about those days are somewhat of a theory. As is the bible.

So why argue about it? Sometimes it's better to be happy, then right.
Too many people get all happy from being right, regardless of how it affects the person they proved wrong.
Personally, I'd rather have a friend who might believe differently.

BTW, science doesn't destroy peoples faith.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's just plain silly.

Actually....it's a fact. I am never wrong....but everything you think you know is false.

....no, there is no such record.
Organisms simply appear, fully formed, with no such transition fossils.


"But the curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps: the fossils go missing in all the important places. When you look for links between major groups of animals, they simply aren't there; at least, not in enough numbers to put their status beyond doubt. Either they don't exist at all, or they are so rare that endless argument goes on about whether a particular fossil is, or isn't, or might be, transitional between this group or that." [emphasis in original] Francis Hitching, The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong(New Haven Ct,:Ticknor and Fields, 1992) p. 19. (See my articleThe Coelacanth, Living Fossils, and Evolution).

There is no fossil record establishing historical continuity of structure for most characters that might be used to assess relationships among phyla." Katherine G. Field et al., "Molecular Phylogeny of the animal Kingdom," Science, Vol. 239, 12 February 1988, p. 748.

". . . the gradual morphological transitions between presumed ancestors and descendants, anticipated by most biologists, are missing." David E. Schindel (Curator of Invertebrate Fossils, Peabody Museum of Natural History), "The Gaps in the Fossil Record," Nature, Vol. 297, 27 May 1982, p. 282.

11. We have pre-Cambrian fossils....and Cambrian fossils. In the latter there are fully formed brand new species with new body types and organs with no evidence of attempts in nature to lead up to these new species.

a. Steven J. Gould reported: "In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and fully formed." (Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 181-182)






“Part of the intrigue with the Cambrian explosion is that numerous animal phyla with very distinct body plans arrive on the scene in a geological blink of the eye, with little or no warning of what is to come in rocks that predate this interval of time.”
MicroRNAs and metazoan macroevolution: insights into canalization, complexity, and the Cambrian explosion - PubMed

“One of the most interesting challenges facing paleobiologists is explaining the Cambrian explosion, the dramatic appearance of most metazoan animal phyla in the Early Cambrian, and the subsequent stability of these body plans over the ensuing 530 million years.”
Kevin J. Peterson, Michael R. Dietrich, Mark A. McPeek, “MicroRNAs and macroevolution: insights into canalization, complexity, and the Cambrian Explosion,” (Hypothesis) Department of Biological Sciences, Dartmouth College
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~peterson/46-Bioessays.pdf

 

[Donald H]

I'm not sure how science and add or subtract anything about the bible.

I'm agnostic. Fact is, everything in the bible could be fact or fiction. I believe it to be fiction. But I wasn't there. None of us were.
Also, a god could've created everything, including life. a trillion years ago. And things happened that created the big boom, that created the earth. Microscopic life somehow survived. And evolution came after the earth developed a livable planet. Scientist and religious folks may both be right.

There's nothing about this can be solved, simply because science about those days are somewhat of a theory. As is the bible.

So why argue about it? Sometimes it's better to be happy, then right.
Too many people get all happy from being right, regardless of how it affects the person they proved wrong.
Personally, I'd rather have a friend who might believe differently.

BTW, science doesn't destroy peoples faith.

Just suffice to say that organized Christianity is pure bunk, while your pantheistic possibilities aren't being debated here.

Then there was the attempt by christianity to modify their beliefs with the Intelligent Design scam. They tried to pass off their modified version of science to suit the creation yarn.

They claimed that Irreducible Complexity could answer for their Christian beliefs, but then they were destroyed by real science that prove otherwise on the claims of IC.

I think that the Christians have learned to steer clear of sciencee after that smackdown.

You can have your pantheistic beliefs without challenging modern science as long as you keep Christian bullshit out of it.

 

[Donald H]

11. We have pre-Cambrian fossils....and Cambrian fossils. In the latter there are fully formed brand new species with new body types and organs with no evidence of attempts in nature to lead up to these new species.

That's true of some examples and untrue of others.You're going to have to accept that some fossils haven't been found. That's perfectly reasonable even for a christian.

You're simply being very SILLY by trying to stick with the creation bunk over Darwinian evolution.

Maybe you could at least take a shot at ID and IR. That's likely the only hope of bringing the creation bunk back into the mainstream. Fairy tales for kids like the Noah's ark crap didn't make it into the 21st. century.

 

[Donald H]

Actually....it's a fact. I am never wrong....but everything you think you know is false.

....no, there is no such record.
Organisms simply appear, fully formed, with no such transition fossils.


"But the curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps: the fossils go missing in all the important places. When you look for links between major groups of animals, they simply aren't there; at least, not in enough numbers to put their status beyond doubt. Either they don't exist at all, or they are so rare that endless argument goes on about whether a particular fossil is, or isn't, or might be, transitional between this group or that." [emphasis in original] Francis Hitching, The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong(New Haven Ct,:Ticknor and Fields, 1992) p. 19. (See my articleThe Coelacanth, Living Fossils, and Evolution).

There is no fossil record establishing historical continuity of structure for most characters that might be used to assess relationships among phyla." Katherine G. Field et al., "Molecular Phylogeny of the animal Kingdom," Science, Vol. 239, 12 February 1988, p. 748.

". . . the gradual morphological transitions between presumed ancestors and descendants, anticipated by most biologists, are missing." David E. Schindel (Curator of Invertebrate Fossils, Peabody Museum of Natural History), "The Gaps in the Fossil Record," Nature, Vol. 297, 27 May 1982, p. 282.

11. We have pre-Cambrian fossils....and Cambrian fossils. In the latter there are fully formed brand new species with new body types and organs with no evidence of attempts in nature to lead up to these new species.

a. Steven J. Gould reported: "In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and fully formed." (Gould, Stephen J. The Panda's Thumb, 1980, p. 181-182)






“Part of the intrigue with the Cambrian explosion is that numerous animal phyla with very distinct body plans arrive on the scene in a geological blink of the eye, with little or no warning of what is to come in rocks that predate this interval of time.”
MicroRNAs and metazoan macroevolution: insights into canalization, complexity, and the Cambrian explosion - PubMed

“One of the most interesting challenges facing paleobiologists is explaining the Cambrian explosion, the dramatic appearance of most metazoan animal phyla in the Early Cambrian, and the subsequent stability of these body plans over the ensuing 530 million years.”
Kevin J. Peterson, Michael R. Dietrich, Mark A. McPeek, “MicroRNAs and macroevolution: insights into canalization, complexity, and the Cambrian Explosion,” (Hypothesis) Department of Biological Sciences, Dartmouth College
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~peterson/46-Bioessays.pdf

I've seen pictures of male and female Ammonites walking up the ramp onto Noah's ark. LOL
They demanded to not be classed as fishes, while unfortunately clams and oysters couldn't make their case.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's true of some examples and untrue of others.You're going to have to accept that some fossils haven't been found. That's perfectly reasonable even for a christian.

You're simply being very SILLY by trying to stick with the creation bunk over Darwinian evolution.

Maybe you could at least take a shot at ID and IR. That's likely the only hope of bringing the creation bunk back into the mainstream. Fairy tales for kids like the Noah's ark crap didn't make it into the 21st. century.

You're the one who claimed a fossil record.

Don't wipe the egg off your kisser....it's an improvement.


I've shown that science and the Bible have been shown to be closer, the more we learn.

Dennis Prager writes: “In my lifetime alone, science went from positing a universe that always existed to positing a universe that had a beginning (the Big Bang). So, in just one generation [the Bible], in describing a beginning to the universe, went from conflicting with science to agreeing with science….[The Bible] should not violate essential truths (for example, it accurately depicts human beings as the last creation).”


Your faith, Militant Secularism, has on such proofs to point to.....merely genocide and slaughter and oppression.
Pretty much a failed IQ test.

 

[dblack]

Government interfering with your lives has become a 'catch phrase' that has never been explained as to it's meaning.

It has a very clear meaning. It means government using coercive laws to dictate behavior. Most especially when such laws aren't protecting anyone's rights, but are merely forcing conformity for convenience.

How could it possibly fir for HC?

Individual mandate for starters. Further, if the socialists get there wish, and government takes over health care altogether, then government will be interfering with our most personal health care decisions.

Somebody needs to administer it in a cost effective and regulated way and only government has the power to do that.

No. For fuck's sake, no. I don't want every single election to be a referendum on whether grandma lives or dies.

 

[Donald H]

It has a very clear meaning. It means government using coercive laws to dictate behavior. Most especially when such laws aren't protecting anyone's rights, but are merely forcing conformity for convenience.

Individual mandate for starters. Further, if the socialists get there wish, and government takes over health care altogether, then government will be interfering with our most personal health care decisions.

No. For fuck's sake, no. I don't want every single election to be a referendum on whether grandma lives or dies.

You're being silly. HC becomes law and it doesn't change with every election to make a decision on granny.

We're talking about changing from the mess here, it's not for extremists to set up roadblocks by coming up with ridiculous suggestions that government will be telling you what brand of maxi-pads you must buy.