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I give the kid credit as far as his character goes. A lot of teenagers wouldn't have had the composure to take someone banging a drum in the face, while being berated by a bunch of racist cultists and not react.
There’s some truth to that. He does deserve whatever scorn comes his way….he acted like an ass.
How? I believe you've already been asked this question but neither you or anybody else has answered. At the very least, no one has explained how smiling and saying and doing nothing is worthy of scorn. So explain to us exactly how his smiling and nothing else constitutes "being an ass".
His parents should not be pimping him out for profit.
And all the Trump haters should not have demonized him in the first place.
They are simply projecting him into the Narrative that has being set for the last several years....
Why cant people think that the kid may have actually been uncomfortable with the guy in his space and some people.... especially kids have the reaction of smiling when a bit nervous. Of course all these all knowing adults here, expect a 16 year old kid to handle the situation as perfectly as they would themselves (cough cough) ... and going so far as to say they would like to slap the smirk off his face. They say nothing about the harrasment and profanity they were forced to stand and take because they were waiting for their bus.. they say absolutely nothing about that.
Absolutely. The videos clearly show the Black Israelites being the assholes and in spite of that, virtually no one has condemned their behavior. On top of all that, someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying "Build that wall". So they ignored actual repugnant behavior on the part of the BIs and went as far as to manufacture bad behavior on the part of the Covington kids.
The behavior of those condemning Sandmann and the Covington kids is nothing short of shameful.
The BLI people were chanting about 'build the wall'. Presumably as sarcasm. But it was being uttered. It's in some of the videos.
I didn't say no one chanted "build that wall", I said someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying it.
According to the most credible storyline the reason he approached where he did was to defuse a confrontation.
Bullshit. Phillips has contradicted himself in various interviews as to how and why he ended up in front of the Covington kids. In one interview he said he was just trying to get up the Lincoln Memorial steps and the kids blocked his path. In another interview he said he was trying to defuse the situation.
Three problems with this:
1.) First and foremost, these two accounts from the same person conflict with each other.
2.) The video I posted yesterday clearly shows Phillips walking right past a gap in the crowd where he could have easily gone up the steps.
3.) The Covington kids did nothing that needed to be defused. It's clear that the Black Israelites were taunting and insulting them the whole time and were the ones that needed to be defused.
Matter of fact that came out right then at the time. Cute victim fantasy but you can't read "MAGA" from that distance.
And what was the distance? Do you even know?
The Black Israelites knew they were wearing MAGA hats and is why they were berating them in the first place.
It could very well be that in Ignorance,If he had just walked on the scene, Phillips assumed it was the kids who were taunting the Black Israelites, simply because there were more of them, they were mostly white and wearing MAGA hats.It kind of makes sense since earlier the Black Israelites were insulting and berating Native Americans
If Phillips himself and his group had already been taunted and insulted by the Black Israelites then why did he not assume the Black Israelites were also taunting the kids? In spite of his earlier experience with the BI, why would he assume the kids were doing the taunting?
Sorry, but this theory doesn't wash. The only reason the kids are seen as the transgressors here is because of the hats.
Nice strawman but nobody is suggesting 'the kids are the transgressors here'.
Bullshit. Since day one everyone made these kids out to be the ones who instigated the confrontation, were the ones doing the insulting and being impudent and disrespectful to Phillips. It is precisely why this incident went viral in the first place.
Smirk-Boi is obviously committing a social faux pas with the whole personal space thing but he presumably doesn't get what's going on and is just being a dick. That doesn't really qualify as a 'transgression'. The only real 'transgression' was the BLI taunting, which is apparently what they do all the time. Fortunately that was defused, wasn't it.
He was being a dick for someone getting in his face and not knowing what's going on? If he didn't know what was going on then how could he be a "dick" about it?
Some responsibility must also be awarded the school chaperones, as apparently the kids had asked permission to go into their tribal war chants and received it.
Is "tribal war chants" your words or theirs?
Whoever thought that would be a good idea ought to explain themselves. But again, fortunately it was defused.
Not by Phillips it wasn't.
Based on his conflicting stories, I don't believe for one second he approached the kids to defuse anything. I believe he approached them because of the hats.
How? I believe you've already been asked this question but neither you or anybody else has answered. At the very least, no one has explained how smiling and saying and doing nothing is worthy of scorn. So explain to us exactly how his smiling and nothing else constitutes "being an ass".
And all the Trump haters should not have demonized him in the first place.
They are simply projecting him into the Narrative that has being set for the last several years....
Why cant people think that the kid may have actually been uncomfortable with the guy in his space and some people.... especially kids have the reaction of smiling when a bit nervous. Of course all these all knowing adults here, expect a 16 year old kid to handle the situation as perfectly as they would themselves (cough cough) ... and going so far as to say they would like to slap the smirk off his face. They say nothing about the harrasment and profanity they were forced to stand and take because they were waiting for their bus.. they say absolutely nothing about that.
Absolutely. The videos clearly show the Black Israelites being the assholes and in spite of that, virtually no one has condemned their behavior. On top of all that, someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying "Build that wall". So they ignored actual repugnant behavior on the part of the BIs and went as far as to manufacture bad behavior on the part of the Covington kids.
The behavior of those condemning Sandmann and the Covington kids is nothing short of shameful.
The BLI people were chanting about 'build the wall'. Presumably as sarcasm. But it was being uttered. It's in some of the videos.
I didn't say no one chanted "build that wall", I said someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying it.
I notice you depend a lot on this term "someone". That could be anybody anywhere saying anything.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's irrelevant.
The thread is about the kid suing for $275 million dollars.
When you start a thread about the adult, I’ll look at commenting on that.
The adult (I don’t remember his name either) acted like an ass too.
It would be more believable that you're solely concerned with sticking to the lawsuit angle if you didn't assert so frequently that the minor was an ass, deserved scorn, should be punished, etc.
If you say so. The kid acted like an ass and his parents have sued for $750M dollars (at least).
And you seem to think there is nothing the least bit wrong with it.
That’s cool. Your bullshit smells.
how did the kid act like an ass by standing there saying and doing nothing???
He didn't, that's the point.
Walk up to the next random person you see and stand six inches away smirking. Let us know how that works out.
They are simply projecting him into the Narrative that has being set for the last several years....
Why cant people think that the kid may have actually been uncomfortable with the guy in his space and some people.... especially kids have the reaction of smiling when a bit nervous. Of course all these all knowing adults here, expect a 16 year old kid to handle the situation as perfectly as they would themselves (cough cough) ... and going so far as to say they would like to slap the smirk off his face. They say nothing about the harrasment and profanity they were forced to stand and take because they were waiting for their bus.. they say absolutely nothing about that.
Absolutely. The videos clearly show the Black Israelites being the assholes and in spite of that, virtually no one has condemned their behavior. On top of all that, someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying "Build that wall". So they ignored actual repugnant behavior on the part of the BIs and went as far as to manufacture bad behavior on the part of the Covington kids.
The behavior of those condemning Sandmann and the Covington kids is nothing short of shameful.
The BLI people were chanting about 'build the wall'. Presumably as sarcasm. But it was being uttered. It's in some of the videos.
I didn't say no one chanted "build that wall", I said someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying it.
I notice you depend a lot on this term "someone". That could be anybody anywhere saying anything.
I don't "depend" on it, someone did start the rumor. I just don't know who, hence the pronoun "someone". And they weren't "saying anything" they were saying the kids said "build that wall".
It's a known fact that people were saying this when the story came out. Phillips himself is probably the "someone" who started the rumor because he specifically said in interviews that he heard them saying this.
Most of the articles simply quote Phillips as saying he heard them say "Build that wall" but I found at least one article that didn't bother to quote Phillips. They came right out and asserted that the kids were saying this:
The Stupidity of Evil: Teens Shouting ‘Build that Wall’ at Native American Vet
I've no doubt there are others.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what? Given that the rumor was untrue and that people believed it anyway and used that as another reason to condemn these kids, I would say that it is most definitely relevant.
LolBullshit. Phillips has contradicted himself in various interviews as to how and why he ended up in front of the Covington kids. In one interview he said he was just trying to get up the Lincoln Memorial steps and the kids blocked his path. In another interview he said he was trying to defuse the situation.
Three problems with this:
1.) First and foremost, these two accounts from the same person conflict with each other.
2.) The video I posted yesterday clearly shows Phillips walking right past a gap in the crowd where he could have easily gone up the steps.
3.) The Covington kids did nothing that needed to be defused. It's clear that the Black Israelites were taunting and insulting them the whole time and were the ones that needed to be defused.
And what was the distance? Do you even know?
The Black Israelites knew they were wearing MAGA hats and is why they were berating them in the first place.
It could very well be that in Ignorance,If he had just walked on the scene, Phillips assumed it was the kids who were taunting the Black Israelites, simply because there were more of them, they were mostly white and wearing MAGA hats.It kind of makes sense since earlier the Black Israelites were insulting and berating Native Americans
If Phillips himself and his group had already been taunted and insulted by the Black Israelites then why did he not assume the Black Israelites were also taunting the kids? In spite of his earlier experience with the BI, why would he assume the kids were doing the taunting?
Sorry, but this theory doesn't wash. The only reason the kids are seen as the transgressors here is because of the hats.
Nice strawman but nobody is suggesting 'the kids are the transgressors here'.
Bullshit. Since day one everyone made these kids out to be the ones who instigated the confrontation, were the ones doing the insulting and being impudent and disrespectful to Phillips. It is precisely why this incident went viral in the first place.
There it is again --- "everyone". Not a whole lot of specificity in that. I have yet to read anyone making that case, not even no one. In fact I kept seeing thread after thread after post after post insisting that more video be watched SHOWING the Black Hebrew Israelites inciting shit. I don't think that's in dispute.
As far as when the video went viral in the first place, it wasn't initially clear that there had been a confrontation so the question of who instigated it would not have come up, would it.
Smirk-Boi is obviously committing a social faux pas with the whole personal space thing but he presumably doesn't get what's going on and is just being a dick. That doesn't really qualify as a 'transgression'. The only real 'transgression' was the BLI taunting, which is apparently what they do all the time. Fortunately that was defused, wasn't it.
He was being a dick for someone getting in his face and not knowing what's going on? If he didn't know what was going on then how could he be a "dick" about it?
When you stand directly in front of somebody staring and smirking --- that's being a dick. Body language. Why he was doing so, you can't tell from the image itself. Even now we can only speculate. Logically you could say he was opposing Philips' intervention to defuse, but that doesn't make much sense either. I'm guessing the pose is just there to say silently, "you're weird, Indian". Whatever the motivation it's clearly disrespectful. But the kid's sixteen, big whoop.
Some responsibility must also be awarded the school chaperones, as apparently the kids had asked permission to go into their tribal war chants and received it.
Is "tribal war chants" your words or theirs?
Mine. Referring to the part where the one kid strips down to the waist and leads the --- best term I can come up with is "tribal war chant". Perhaps that's what the woman bystander is talking about when she describes the scene as a "fucking mob mentality". Or perhaps she's referring to the tomahawk chops mocking the Indians. It's the same stuff that was going on in that basketball pic posted earlier. Pretty clearly they were doing that as a counter-taunt to the BHIs.
You don't seem to have addressed my point that the chaperones enabled that whatever-we-want-to-call-it. I'll infer that you agree. I'll further assume you agree that that was not wise of them to do so.
Whoever thought that would be a good idea ought to explain themselves. But again, fortunately it was defused.
Not by Phillips it wasn't.
Whelp ---- again, bottom line ..... was there or was there not any confrontation between the Black Trolls and the Covington kids after Philips arrived? I have seen no reports that there was. That would seem to affirm his account, would it not.
Based on his conflicting stories, I don't believe for one second he approached the kids to defuse anything. I believe he approached them because of the hats.
Based on ----------- what? Wishful thinking?
Number one, you can't read hats from the distance from which they approached but you can discern the tribal war chants and the racial taunting. That's readily audible from much further away. Number two, you realize that "Indians" are indigenous people, right? Why would they care about white people building walls on what was originally their land anyway?
Bullshit. Phillips has contradicted himself in various interviews as to how and why he ended up in front of the Covington kids. In one interview he said he was just trying to get up the Lincoln Memorial steps and the kids blocked his path. In another interview he said he was trying to defuse the situation.
Three problems with this:
1.) First and foremost, these two accounts from the same person conflict with each other.
2.) The video I posted yesterday clearly shows Phillips walking right past a gap in the crowd where he could have easily gone up the steps.
3.) The Covington kids did nothing that needed to be defused. It's clear that the Black Israelites were taunting and insulting them the whole time and were the ones that needed to be defused.
And what was the distance? Do you even know?
The Black Israelites knew they were wearing MAGA hats and is why they were berating them in the first place.
It could very well be that in Ignorance,If he had just walked on the scene, Phillips assumed it was the kids who were taunting the Black Israelites, simply because there were more of them, they were mostly white and wearing MAGA hats.It kind of makes sense since earlier the Black Israelites were insulting and berating Native Americans
If Phillips himself and his group had already been taunted and insulted by the Black Israelites then why did he not assume the Black Israelites were also taunting the kids? In spite of his earlier experience with the BI, why would he assume the kids were doing the taunting?
Sorry, but this theory doesn't wash. The only reason the kids are seen as the transgressors here is because of the hats.
Nice strawman but nobody is suggesting 'the kids are the transgressors here'.
Bullshit. Since day one everyone made these kids out to be the ones who instigated the confrontation, were the ones doing the insulting and being impudent and disrespectful to Phillips. It is precisely why this incident went viral in the first place.
There it is again --- "everyone". Not a whole lot of specificity in that.
I have yet to read anyone making that case, not even no one. In fact I kept seeing thread after thread after post after post insisting that more video be watched SHOWING the Black Hebrew Israelites inciting shit. I don't think that's in dispute.
As far as when the video went viral in the first place, it wasn't initially clear that there had been a confrontation so the question of who instigated it would not have come up, would it.
Smirk-Boi is obviously committing a social faux pas with the whole personal space thing but he presumably doesn't get what's going on and is just being a dick. That doesn't really qualify as a 'transgression'. The only real 'transgression' was the BLI taunting, which is apparently what they do all the time. Fortunately that was defused, wasn't it.
He was being a dick for someone getting in his face and not knowing what's going on? If he didn't know what was going on then how could he be a "dick" about it?
When you stand directly in front of somebody staring and smirking --- that's being a dick.
Body language. Why he was doing so, you can't tell from the image itself. Even now we can only speculate. Logically you could say he was opposing Philips' intervention to defuse, but that doesn't make much sense either. I'm guessing the pose is just there to say silently, "you're weird, Indian". Whatever the motivation it's clearly disrespectful. But the kid's sixteen, big whoop.
Some responsibility must also be awarded the school chaperones, as apparently the kids had asked permission to go into their tribal war chants and received it.
Is "tribal war chants" your words or theirs?
Mine. Referring to the part where the one kid strips down to the waist and leads the --- best term I can come up with is "tribal war chant". Perhaps that's what the woman bystander is talking about when she describes the scene as a "fucking mob mentality". Or perhaps she's referring to the tomahawk chops mocking the Indians. It's the same stuff that was going on in that basketball pic posted earlier. Pretty clearly they were doing that as a counter-taunt to the BHIs.
You don't seem to have addressed my point that the chaperones enabled that whatever-we-want-to-call-it. I'll infer that you agree. I'll further assume you agree that that was not wise of them to do so.
Whoever thought that would be a good idea ought to explain themselves. But again, fortunately it was defused.
Not by Phillips it wasn't.
Whelp ---- again, bottom line ..... was there or was there not any confrontation between the Black Trolls and the Covington kids after Philips arrived? I have seen no reports that there was. That would seem to affirm his account, would it not.
Based on his conflicting stories, I don't believe for one second he approached the kids to defuse anything. I believe he approached them because of the hats.
Based on ----------- what? Wishful thinking?
Number one, you can't read hats from the distance from which they approached but you can discern the tribal war chants and the racial taunting. That's readily audible from much further away.
Number two, you realize that "Indians" are indigenous people, right? Why would they care about white people building walls on what was originally their land anyway?
Absolutely. The videos clearly show the Black Israelites being the assholes and in spite of that, virtually no one has condemned their behavior. On top of all that, someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying "Build that wall". So they ignored actual repugnant behavior on the part of the BIs and went as far as to manufacture bad behavior on the part of the Covington kids.
The behavior of those condemning Sandmann and the Covington kids is nothing short of shameful.
The BLI people were chanting about 'build the wall'. Presumably as sarcasm. But it was being uttered. It's in some of the videos.
I didn't say no one chanted "build that wall", I said someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying it.
I notice you depend a lot on this term "someone". That could be anybody anywhere saying anything.
I don't "depend" on it, someone did start the rumor. I just don't know who, hence the pronoun "someone". And they weren't "saying anything" they were saying the kids said "build that wall".
It's a known fact that people were saying this when the story came out. Phillips himself is probably the "someone" who started the rumor because he specifically said in interviews that he heard them saying this.
Most of the articles simply quote Phillips as saying he heard them say "Build that wall" but I found at least one article that didn't bother to quote Phillips. They came right out and asserted that the kids were saying this:
The Stupidity of Evil: Teens Shouting ‘Build that Wall’ at Native American Vet
I've no doubt there are others.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what? Given that the rumor was untrue and that people believed it anyway and used that as another reason to condemn these kids, I would say that it is most definitely relevant.
I don't see how it's relevant. Whether this or that party mentioned a wall or not has no bearing on the BHI trolling, on the Covington's reaction displays, on the Indian drumming or on the Smirk. None of it changes if this or that entity says anything about a wall.
The BLI people were chanting about 'build the wall'. Presumably as sarcasm. But it was being uttered. It's in some of the videos.
I didn't say no one chanted "build that wall", I said someone started the untrue rumor that the kids were saying it.
I notice you depend a lot on this term "someone". That could be anybody anywhere saying anything.
I don't "depend" on it, someone did start the rumor. I just don't know who, hence the pronoun "someone". And they weren't "saying anything" they were saying the kids said "build that wall".
It's a known fact that people were saying this when the story came out. Phillips himself is probably the "someone" who started the rumor because he specifically said in interviews that he heard them saying this.
Most of the articles simply quote Phillips as saying he heard them say "Build that wall" but I found at least one article that didn't bother to quote Phillips. They came right out and asserted that the kids were saying this:
The Stupidity of Evil: Teens Shouting ‘Build that Wall’ at Native American Vet
I've no doubt there are others.
Doesn't matter anyway, it's irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what? Given that the rumor was untrue and that people believed it anyway and used that as another reason to condemn these kids, I would say that it is most definitely relevant.
I don't see how it's relevant. Whether this or that party mentioned a wall or not has no bearing on the BHI trolling, on the Covington's reaction displays, on the Indian drumming or on the Smirk. None of it changes if this or that entity says anything about a wall.
If the accusation of their saying "build that wall" is irrelevant then so is his smiling.
The people criticizing these kids formed their opinions based on what they heard, saw or were told. They formed their opinions based on the MAGA hats, Sandmann smiling and on the belief that the kids said "Build that wall". The entire controversy is centered around these three things so yes, it definitely has bearing on the issue as a whole.
You expect specificity now but where was that desire for specifics when the boys were being unjustly condemned as racists or that Sandmann was being a jerk?
Have you not been reading this thread for Christ's sake? There are people in this very discussion still reviling Sandmann and saying he was being an ass and disrespectful. There's Penelope, candycorn and JoeB131 that I know of for sure. JoeB131 has referred to the Covington boys on more than one occasion as "Catholic bastards". He's said it at least once in this discussion and about three or four times in another discussion right after the incident.
Don't be so naive. The only reason the video went viral at all was because the boys were wearing MAGA hats. If they had not been wearing the hats, either we wouldn't have heard about it or it wouldn't even have happened.
People saw the initial video that just showed Sandmann and Phillips facing each other and assumed, because of the hat, that he was just some racist Trump-supporting insolent fuck and had gotten in Phillips' face. Wasn't there even a celebrity that said something like "Have you ever seen a more punchable face"?
You are aware that Phillips approached Sandmann, right? Why do you insist on making this kid out to be a jerk when you know goddamn well that Phillips approached him?
I haven't addressed it [the question of chaperones approving tribal chants] because I don't feel it's important or relevant considering what we know now about Phillips' equivocating and lying and the fact that he had no business approaching those boys.
First of all, Phillips was not even involved in the back and forth between the kids and the BHI guys. Secondly, he already knew from his own experiences with the BHI guys that they were the ones doing the taunting and insulting. Thirdly, the kids start doing their school fight song or "Tribal war chant" as you call it, shouting incoherently where you can't even make out what they're saying. In spite of the fact that Phillips can't make out what they're saying but knows exactly what the BHI guys were saying and doing, he chose to approach the kids. Why? The hats.
First, I don't trust his account because he contradicts himself as to why he ended up banging his drum in Sandmann's face. Second, none of this is any indication that there would have been a confrontation had he not been there.
I base my opinion on the fact that, of the two conflicting stories he's given, one of these was that he was trying to get up to the Lincoln memorial when he had a clear path up the steps.
I also base it on the fact that he was quoted as saying "These young men were beastly and these old black individuals was their prey, and I stood in between them and so they needed their pounds of flesh and they were looking at me for that."
"Old black individuals"? I daresay that none of the BHI guys was over thirty. Even if I'm wrong about that, they definitely were not old. In any case, in spite of the fact that the BHI guys were doing the berating, he still considered the Covington kids as being the "beasts" in this situation. That's why I think he approached them because of the hats.
First, if you're saying the Covington kids were hurling racial taunts, what racial taunts are you referring to? Second, in the Youtube video below, the BHI guys saw the hats from where they were standing and is why they started calling the kids "crackers" and products of incest. This happens at about 1:07:44. But a little before that at exactly 1:06:49 in the video you can see Phillips about twenty feet away from the BHI guys and they are about the same distance from the kids.
Why is this significant? Because Phillips was close enough to the BHI guys to hear them insulting the kids and specifically referring to their MAGA hats. And another thing, at about 1:11;28 the kids were doing their chant but it actually didn't consist of words at this point. But by the time Phillips was seen approaching them at 1:12:20, they had already quit the chant and some had their backs turned to the BHI guys and they were just ignoring the BHI guys and talking amongst themselves.
