Creationists

[UltimateReality]

On RNA World...

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you..."

1. Böhler, C., P. E. Nielsen, and L. E. Orgel. 1995. Template switching between PNA and RNA oligonucleotides. Nature 376: 578-581. See also: Piccirilli, J. A., 1995. RNA seeks its maker. Nature 376: 548-549.
   
2. Jeffares, D. C., A. M. Poole and D. Penny. 1998. Relics from the RNA world. Journal of Molecular Evolution 46: 18-36.
   
3. Leipe, D. D., L. Aravind, and E. V. Koonin. 1999. Did DNA replication evolve twice independently? Nucleic Acids Research 27: 3389-3401.
   
4. Levy, Matthew and Andrew D. Ellington. 2003. Exponential growth by cross-catalytic cleavage of deoxyribozymogens. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA 100(11): 6416-6421.
   
5. Poole, A. M., D. C. Jeffares, and D. Penny. 1998. The path from the RNA world. Journal of Molecular Evolution 46: 1-17.

The newest study you list is 9 years old!!! No wonder you still believe all the hocus pocus. You aren't current on the latest findings.

 

[UltimateReality]

If you actually read Eldridge & Gould, you'd have your answer, but it boils down to this; evolution describes incremental (gradual, if you will) genetic (hence, physical) changes within populations of organisms; these changes lead to differentiation into separate identifiable populations. Punctuated Equilibrium posits that the rate of differentiation is not necessarily constant ... but it's still gradual.

All we see are small scale changes within a family,not one family evolving into a new family.

The unit of evolution is the species. Evolution DOES NOT posit that one family will evolve into another family. YOU STRAWMAN IS INVALID!

Once again this is Micro-evolution not Macro-evolution.

No. It's not. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

This is such an outrageous lie!!! You are the intellectually dishonest one!!! Loki, you are as bad as a Christian that picks and chooses what they will and will not believe from the BIble. I can assure that your goalposts all over the place do not fit with the current EXPERTS in the field. You have made up your own version and call EVERYTHING a strawman. How convenient!!! You are full of trickery and deceit! No one knows or cares what you believe but I think it is obvious to all that you don't know what you believe, and whatever you believe doe NOT CONCUR with current neo-darwinisist views.

 

[UltimateReality]

Jeopardy music playing in the background... Where is Loki's response on the ID testable theory? Cat got your tongue?

And once again the master chess player Loki conveniently ignores posting anything that will back him into the perverbial corner where he has to admit his theory has holes.

 

[UltimateReality]

I wonder how NS produced this little gem...

Illustra Media - Metamorphosis

 

[LOki]

Jeopardy music playing in the background... Where is Loki's response on the ID testable theory? Cat got your tongue?

And once again the master chess player Loki conveniently ignores posting anything that will back him into the perverbial corner where he has to admit his theory has holes.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm working 14s with 3 hours of road time added.

But I'll give you the heads up ... Lusk fails to establish the design; he just reasserts that everything is designed.

 

[LOki]

All we see are small scale changes within a family,not one family evolving into a new family.

The unit of evolution is the species. Evolution DOES NOT posit that one family will evolve into another family. YOU STRAWMAN IS INVALID!

Once again this is Micro-evolution not Macro-evolution.

No. It's not. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

This is such an outrageous lie!!! You are the intellectually dishonest one!!! Loki, you are as bad as a Christian that picks and chooses what they will and will not believe from the BIble. I can assure that your goalposts all over the place do not fit with the current EXPERTS in the field. You have made up your own version and call EVERYTHING a strawman. How convenient!!! You are full of trickery and deceit! No one knows or cares what you believe but I think it is obvious to all that you don't know what you believe, and whatever you believe doe NOT CONCUR with current neo-darwinisist views.

Demonstrate.

 

[LOki]

I wonder how NS produced this little gem...

Illustra Media - Metamorphosis

 

[Youwerecreated]

No, I'm not. You are by demanding that they are the same thing.

Do you understand the theory of evolution ?

Yes. It bears no resemblance to your strawman version however.

Yes it is; that is not in dispute.

When the fossil record shows no gradual change over time,you don't see that as a problem for your theory ?

IF the fossil record showed no gradual change over time, that would pose a problem for part of the theory. Yet since the fossil record DOES show strong evidence of gradual changes, the "problem" you suggest does not really exist.

So I will ask you again. how are punctuated equilibrium and gradualism compatible with each other ?

Again, evolution describes incremental (gradual, if you will) genetic (hence, physical) changes (over time) within populations of organisms; these changes (over time) lead to differentiation into separate identifiable populations. Punctuated Equilibrium posits that the rate of differentiation is not necessarily constant ... but it's still gradual change over time.

You are not getting it Loki,creatures supposedly from the cambrian appeared suddenly. Creatures from the precambrian showed no gradual change at all.

I have presented to you on several occasions living fossils,that the living fossils today match the fossils that were supoosedly dated back some 400 million years ago and there is no change.

If mutations do as you claim they should have showed change but they didn't There are many examples of this evidence.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If you actually read Eldridge & Gould, you'd have your answer, but it boils down to this; evolution describes incremental (gradual, if you will) genetic (hence, physical) changes within populations of organisms; these changes lead to differentiation into separate identifiable populations. Punctuated Equilibrium posits that the rate of differentiation is not necessarily constant ... but it's still gradual.

All we see are small scale changes within a family,not one family evolving into a new family.

The unit of evolution is the species. Evolution DOES NOT posit that one family will evolve into another family. YOU STRAWMAN IS INVALID!

Once again this is Micro-evolution not Macro-evolution.

No. It's not. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

So you dont think dinosaurs and birds are two different families ?

You don't think humans and apes are two different families ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

The unit of evolution is the species. Evolution DOES NOT posit that one family will evolve into another family. YOU STRAWMAN IS INVALID!

No. It's not. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

This is such an outrageous lie!!! You are the intellectually dishonest one!!! Loki, you are as bad as a Christian that picks and chooses what they will and will not believe from the BIble. I can assure that your goalposts all over the place do not fit with the current EXPERTS in the field. You have made up your own version and call EVERYTHING a strawman. How convenient!!! You are full of trickery and deceit! No one knows or cares what you believe but I think it is obvious to all that you don't know what you believe, and whatever you believe doe NOT CONCUR with current neo-darwinisist views.

Demonstrate.

By saying that Neodarwinism and punctuated equilibrium are compatible. One constitutes minor change over large spans of time,one constitutes massive changes by suddenly appearing showing no gradualism.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What is real funny I read where a science teacher tried explaining punctuated equilibrium and comparing the growth of a child experiencing growth patterns,where they will remain a certain height for a period of time then all of a sudden have a growth spurt.

Let me point out the problem with this reasoning,it's already contained in the Genes how tall a peron will be. Neo darwinism asserts that evolution happens through random mutations.

The second problem with this reasoning is that there is a big difference in time spans of the growth of the child versus the evolution of a creature. This is faulty reasoning and a failure of an explanation to try and make punctuated equilibrium non contradictory towards Neodarwinism.

This is exactly how people are brainwashed into believing something that is totally absurd agains't the evidence.

 

[daws101]

What is real funny I read where a science teacher tried explaining punctuated equilibrium and comparing the growth of a child experiencing growth patterns,where they will remain a certain height for a period of time then all of a sudden have a growth spurt.

Let me point out the problem with this reasoning,it's already contained in the Genes how tall a peron will be. Neo darwinism asserts that evolution happens through random mutations.

The second problem with this reasoning is that there is a big difference in time spans of the growth of the child versus the evolution of a creature. This is faulty reasoning and a failure of an explanation to try and make punctuated equilibrium non contradictory towards Neodarwinism.

This is exactly how people are brainwashed into believing something that is totally absurd agains't the evidence.

 

[LOki]

Do you understand the theory of evolution ?

Yes. It bears no resemblance to your strawman version however.

Yes it is; that is not in dispute.

IF the fossil record showed no gradual change over time, that would pose a problem for part of the theory. Yet since the fossil record DOES show strong evidence of gradual changes, the "problem" you suggest does not really exist.

So I will ask you again. how are punctuated equilibrium and gradualism compatible with each other ?

Again, evolution describes incremental (gradual, if you will) genetic (hence, physical) changes (over time) within populations of organisms; these changes (over time) lead to differentiation into separate identifiable populations. Punctuated Equilibrium posits that the rate of differentiation is not necessarily constant ... but it's still gradual change over time.

You are not getting it Loki,creatures supposedly from the cambrian appeared suddenly.

How many times must it be pointed out to you that "suddenly" is a relative term?

The "suddenly" you are referencing spans MILLIONS of years.

Do you get that?

Creatures from the precambrian showed no gradual change at all.

WTF are you talking about?

I have presented to you on several occasions living fossils,that the living fossils today match the fossils that were supoosedly dated back some 400 million years ago and there is no change.

And I have pointed out to you each and every time that the phenomenon you are describing is FULLY CONSISTENT WITH EVOLUTIONARY THEORY.

Do you get that now?

If mutations do as you claim they should have showed change but they didn't.

WRONG.

Before you discuss Evolutionary Theory, you should make an honest attempt to understand it. You should stop looking for that understanding from the strawman descriptions Christian Creationists disingenuously generate.

There are many examples of this evidence.

And you may continue to produce them, and I will continue to point out your obvious misunderstanding of what your evidence really supports.

 

[LOki]

All we see are small scale changes within a family,not one family evolving into a new family.

The unit of evolution is the species. Evolution DOES NOT posit that one family will evolve into another family. YOU STRAWMAN IS INVALID!

Once again this is Micro-evolution not Macro-evolution.

No. It's not. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

So you dont think dinosaurs and birds are two different families ?

I think some dinosaurs and all birds belong the same taxonomic class, but different taxonomic families.

You don't think humans and apes are two different families ?

Humans and great ape belong to the same taxonomic family.

Regardless of how I think birds, dinosaurs, apes and humans are classified taxonomically, there is one thing that is certain; evolution does not posit family evolving into a new family. One family evolving into a new family is a Christian Creationist strawman.

 

[LOki]

This is such an outrageous lie!!! You are the intellectually dishonest one!!! Loki, you are as bad as a Christian that picks and chooses what they will and will not believe from the BIble. I can assure that your goalposts all over the place do not fit with the current EXPERTS in the field. You have made up your own version and call EVERYTHING a strawman. How convenient!!! You are full of trickery and deceit! No one knows or cares what you believe but I think it is obvious to all that you don't know what you believe, and whatever you believe doe NOT CONCUR with current neo-darwinisist views.

Demonstrate.

By saying that Neodarwinism and punctuated equilibrium are compatible. One constitutes minor change over large spans of time,one constitutes massive changes by suddenly appearing showing no gradualism.

WRONG.

One asserts gradual change over long periods of time, and the other asserts gradual change at varying rates over long periods of time.

 

[LOki]

What is real funny I read where a science teacher tried explaining punctuated equilibrium and comparing the growth of a child experiencing growth patterns,where they will remain a certain height for a period of time then all of a sudden have a growth spurt.

YES! Growth still happens gradually, but at different rates at different times for different reasons. YES! EXACTLY RIGHT!

NOT EVER does a 3 foot tall child instantly become a 4 foot tall child; the child still grows gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium asserts that evolution occurs gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium is NOT a refutation of gradualism, it does NOT contradict gradualism; Punctuated Equilibrium ENHANCES gradualism.

Let me point out the problem with this reasoning,it's already contained in the Genes how tall a peron will be. Neo darwinism asserts that evolution happens through random mutations.

Non-Sequitur.

The second problem with this reasoning is that there is a big difference in time spans of the growth of the child versus the evolution of a creature.

Individual creatures do not evolve.

This is faulty reasoning and a failure of an explanation to try and make punctuated equilibrium non contradictory towards Neodarwinism.

No. It is your manifestly faulty notions of evolution and punctuated equilibrium that are contradictory.

This is exactly how people are brainwashed into believing something that is totally absurd agains't the evidence.

No. You have OBVIOUSLY been brainwashed into believing that the Theory of Evolution and Punctuated Equilibrium describe, assert, and predict things that they CLEARLY do not.

 

[UltimateReality]

What is real funny I read where a science teacher tried explaining punctuated equilibrium and comparing the growth of a child experiencing growth patterns,where they will remain a certain height for a period of time then all of a sudden have a growth spurt.

YES! Growth still happens gradually, but at different rates at different times for different reasons. YES! EXACTLY RIGHT!

NOT EVER does a 3 foot tall child instantly become a 4 foot tall child; the child still grows gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium asserts that evolution occurs gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium is NOT a refutation of gradualism, it does NOT contradict gradualism; Punctuated Equilibrium ENHANCES gradualism.

Let me point out the problem with this reasoning,it's already contained in the Genes how tall a peron will be. Neo darwinism asserts that evolution happens through random mutations.

Non-Sequitur.

Individual creatures do not evolve.

This is faulty reasoning and a failure of an explanation to try and make punctuated equilibrium non contradictory towards Neodarwinism.

No. It is your manifestly faulty notions of evolution and punctuated equilibrium that are contradictory.

This is exactly how people are brainwashed into believing something that is totally absurd agains't the evidence.

No. You have OBVIOUSLY been brainwashed into believing that the Theory of Evolution and Punctuated Equilibrium describe, assert, and predict things that they CLEARLY do not.

Does the Loki version of neo-darwinism not claim that all complex species like humans, dogs, cats, and birds came from a single cell ancestor? And that if you go far enough back, there is a common ancestor to all the aforementioned species?

 

[LOki]

What is real funny I read where a science teacher tried explaining punctuated equilibrium and comparing the growth of a child experiencing growth patterns,where they will remain a certain height for a period of time then all of a sudden have a growth spurt.

YES! Growth still happens gradually, but at different rates at different times for different reasons. YES! EXACTLY RIGHT!

NOT EVER does a 3 foot tall child instantly become a 4 foot tall child; the child still grows gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium asserts that evolution occurs gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium is NOT a refutation of gradualism, it does NOT contradict gradualism; Punctuated Equilibrium ENHANCES gradualism.

Non-Sequitur.

Individual creatures do not evolve.

No. It is your manifestly faulty notions of evolution and punctuated equilibrium that are contradictory.

This is exactly how people are brainwashed into believing something that is totally absurd agains't the evidence.

No. You have OBVIOUSLY been brainwashed into believing that the Theory of Evolution and Punctuated Equilibrium describe, assert, and predict things that they CLEARLY do not.

Does the Loki version of neo-darwinism not claim that all complex species like humans, dogs, cats, and birds came from a single cell ancestor? And that if you go far enough back, there is a common ancestor to all the aforementioned species?

Sure. What of it?

 

[Youwerecreated]

YES! Growth still happens gradually, but at different rates at different times for different reasons. YES! EXACTLY RIGHT!

NOT EVER does a 3 foot tall child instantly become a 4 foot tall child; the child still grows gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium asserts that evolution occurs gradually. Punctuated Equilibrium is NOT a refutation of gradualism, it does NOT contradict gradualism; Punctuated Equilibrium ENHANCES gradualism.

Non-Sequitur.

Individual creatures do not evolve.

No. It is your manifestly faulty notions of evolution and punctuated equilibrium that are contradictory.

No. You have OBVIOUSLY been brainwashed into believing that the Theory of Evolution and Punctuated Equilibrium describe, assert, and predict things that they CLEARLY do not.

Does the Loki version of neo-darwinism not claim that all complex species like humans, dogs, cats, and birds came from a single cell ancestor? And that if you go far enough back, there is a common ancestor to all the aforementioned species?

Sure. What of it?

Loki ,if you tried to figure the rate of variations for all living organisms, life has not been on this planet long enough to account for all the variations that would be necessary for all the different organisms that are alive today, let alone, all the groups of organism's that have went extinct.

 

[daws101]

Does the Loki version of neo-darwinism not claim that all complex species like humans, dogs, cats, and birds came from a single cell ancestor? And that if you go far enough back, there is a common ancestor to all the aforementioned species?

Sure. What of it?

Loki ,if you tried to figure the rate of variations for all living organisms, life has not been on this planet long enough to account for all the variations that would be necessary for all the different organisms that are alive today, let alone, all the groups of organism's that have went extinct.

bullshit!