Creationists

[UltimateReality]

As I mentioned before, I don’t think evolution can explain where exactly life came from, how it started (from “nothingness&#8221, and why everything exists in the first place. But I still think evolution can explain a lot of the variations of life within our planet (in my opinion). That said…

Just to clarify: (1) do “creationists” believe that a god created everything in one swoop, many ages ago, and everything kind of remained the same throughout time (ie humans were present at the creation of the universe)? Or can a creationist believe that god created a universe, and then various forms of life evolved from one another over time?

Also, (2) do “creationists” (in the context of this specific discussion here) believe that it was the Judeo/Christian God – specifically – who created everything (as described by the Old Testament/New Testament), or simply “a god” or some all powerful (yet undefined) figure/being?


I've always been confused on what a "creationist" specifically believes, and hopefully one of you could shed some light...

Evolution theory is contrary to the scriptures.

God created each family of organisms with the ability to adapt if we try to go beyond those limits that breed or family can go extinct.

I believe many breeds within a family simply can happen over time because of the vast genepool. But i don't believe one family can evolve into a destinct new family.

I believe all offspring are the product of several generations of parents and grand parents genes.

Thanks for the response.

So is it fair to say that a “creationist” holds a much more specific view of how the universe was created (as you reference scripture) than say an “intelligent design” person?

The premise of Intelligent Design is to furnish arguments for the existence of Designer, or designer with a small d, based purely on the scientific method. Although ID theory could have religious implications, in its pure form, it should not base any hypothesis on religious foundations, only pure observable phenomena. Now the haters love to try and mix Creationism and ID theory together in an attempt to discredit the science, but one is a religious argument and the other is a scientific argument. They ignore some of the very valid scientific arguments and use diversionary tactics, saying you are just trying to get religion into the schools and you are pushing your religion. As I explained before, there is no winning the argument either way with them. If you don't mention you believe God is the designer, they accuse you of a cover up. If you admit it, they accuse you of pushing religion and not science.

Other than theories, more than likely a larger portion of ID proponents time is spent calling out evolutionists on fudged data or forcing scientific discoveries to fit the TOE when there is absolutely no logical correlation that can be drawn without severe suspension of disbelief. They also defend those that have been persecuted in the scientific community simple because they asked the wrong questions, or wouldn't go along with the Darwinists party line. It is amazing to me that Evolutionists arrogantly act like they have the market cornered on "real" science when most of the great scientific discoveries in the last 3000 years were made by Theists. Newton, Lemaitre, Hubble, Mendel, and Eratosthenes come to mind. If you are interested in opposing veiwpoints, here are two great blogs...

Uncommon Descent | Serving The Intelligent Design Community

There are also some "lively" discussions that occur in the comment section of this blog.

This guy is great at pointing out how often Darwinists insert metaphysical concepts into their arguments while accusing IDers of not doing "real" science. The basis of his blog is that Darwinists are just as "religious" as Theists based on things they interject into their arguments. Although they love to deny it, Materialism is a world view just like Deism and Theism. Evolutionary thought is the basis of the Materialist world view which claims that matter is the only reality.

Darwin's God

 

[UltimateReality]

"Personally, I think the chimp-like to human conversion would have to have taken many more years than any protein conversion, if it happened at all. A few years back Durrett and Schmidt published two papers in which they estimated how long it would take to get a single mutation, and then a second mutation to produce an eight base DNA binding site somewhere within a thousand base region near a gene. They stipulated that within the thousand base region there already was a sequence with six out of eight bases matching the target. The reason they chose to examine DNA binding sites? Many evolutionists think that evolution happens by changing gene expression, and changing gene expression most often requires changes to the regulatory regions around genes."


"Each trait requires multiple mutations to achieve a beneficial change. And many of the traits must occur together to be of any benefit. Take, for example, the changes required for upright bipedalism. Hips, legs, feet, spine, ribcage, skull all need to work together to allow free and efficient motion. All must be changed. But changing the hips before changing the angle of the legs would not be helpful. Changing to upright posture without lengthening the neck and setting the skull atop the spine would not work."

Full article here:

The Real Barrier to Unguided Human Evolution - Evolution News & Views

 

[daws101]

why is it so important for creationists to prove a god exists?
since you folks claim to have the answer that everything is god's work.
if your faith is so strong no other proof should be necessary?
why the urgency ? are you under a time constraint ?
the the evil evolutionists are in no hurry...
your belief system says the end is coming...some day...
why not wait? if you are right, then everyone will know it and you can be as arrogant about it as you want.
(you might piss off Jesus though)
or could it be that the EVIL evolutionists might be on to something and it's eats at a place in the back of your mind like an Itch you can't scratch.
or is it the terror of the idea that there is no god that makes you grasp at anything that promotes your pov,no matter how misguided or silly ?

There is no arrogance here... only compassion for those who have been so gravely misled.

the answer alone is arrogant, it assumes that your belief is superior and some wrong doing has taken place, you have no proof of either.
do you have some sort of comprehension disability?
belief only proves belief,it is not evidence of the thing believed in.
in other words it's an opinion and opinions are like assholes everybody has one.

 

[daws101]

Four laughing smiley faces. Now those are the types of intelligent responses we have come to know and love from Darwinists. Insert face palm here.

the reply fits the presentation....it has no vaildity.. as it is based on a bias an unprovable premise.

Are you sure you don't mean Neo Darwinism ?

I'm sure I don't ...even though you wish (like your belief) i DID!

 

[Youwerecreated]

As I mentioned before, I don’t think evolution can explain where exactly life came from, how it started (from “nothingness”), and why everything exists in the first place. But I still think evolution can explain a lot of the variations of life within our planet (in my opinion). That said…

Just to clarify: (1) do “creationists” believe that a god created everything in one swoop, many ages ago, and everything kind of remained the same throughout time (ie humans were present at the creation of the universe)? Or can a creationist believe that god created a universe, and then various forms of life evolved from one another over time?

Also, (2) do “creationists” (in the context of this specific discussion here) believe that it was the Judeo/Christian God – specifically – who created everything (as described by the Old Testament/New Testament), or simply “a god” or some all powerful (yet undefined) figure/being?


I've always been confused on what a "creationist" specifically believes, and hopefully one of you could shed some light...

Evolution theory is contrary to the scriptures.

God created each family of organisms with the ability to adapt if we try to go beyond those limits that breed or family can go extinct.

I believe many breeds within a family simply can happen over time because of the vast genepool. But i don't believe one family can evolve into a destinct new family.

I believe all offspring are the product of several generations of parents and grand parents genes.

Thanks for the response.

So is it fair to say that a “creationist” holds a much more specific view of how the universe was created (as you reference scripture) than say an “intelligent design” person?

In my view the intelligence that created life is God. I believe in some of the views of an ID person scientifically but I also disagree with some of their views. I believe in some of the views of creationism but I also disagree with some views of creationism. I believe life is older then what creationists say but much younger then the ID people believe. So I would be half and half. God says according to the scriptures that a 1,000 years is a day to God that each day of creation took a thousand years.

 

[Youwerecreated]

the reply fits the presentation....it has no vaildity.. as it is based on a bias an unprovable premise.

Are you sure you don't mean Neo Darwinism ?

I'm sure I don't ...even though you wish (like your belief) i DID!

Well Neo is losing more and more credibility with more and more evidence being discovered.

 

[daws101]

Evolution theory is contrary to the scriptures.

God created each family of organisms with the ability to adapt if we try to go beyond those limits that breed or family can go extinct.

I believe many breeds within a family simply can happen over time because of the vast genepool. But i don't believe one family can evolve into a destinct new family.

I believe all offspring are the product of several generations of parents and grand parents genes.

Thanks for the response.

So is it fair to say that a “creationist” holds a much more specific view of how the universe was created (as you reference scripture) than say an “intelligent design” person?

In my view the intelligence that created life is God. I believe in some of the views of an ID person scientifically but I also disagree with some of their views. I believe in some of the views of creationism but I also disagree with some views of creationism. I believe life is older then what creationists say but much younger then the ID people believe. So I would be half and half. God says according to the scriptures that a 1,000 years is a day to God that each day of creation took a thousand years.

you got that ass backwards.
the scriptures SAY that god said...either way it's wrong.
if anything, since the planet was spining faster in the past, days and nights were shorter.
which brings up the question of the moon..
it's been proven that the moon is moving away from the earth at a steady rate.
in your reader digest version of earth's existence, the moon would have to have been moving faster away from the earth then, slow down to be where it is now.


The Moon's orbit (its circular path around the Earth) is indeed getting larger, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) I wouldn't say that the Moon is getting closer to the Sun, specifically, though--it is getting farther from the Earth, so, when it's in the part of its orbit closest to the Sun, it's closer, but when it's in the part of its orbit farthest from the Sun, it's farther away.

The reason for the increase is that the Moon raises tides on the Earth. Because the side of the Earth that faces the Moon is closer, it feels a stronger pull of gravity than the center of the Earth. Similarly, the part of the Earth facing away from the Moon feels less gravity than the center of the Earth. This effect stretches the Earth a bit, making it a little bit oblong. We call the parts that stick out "tidal bulges." The actual solid body of the Earth is distorted a few centimeters, but the most noticable effect is the tides raised on the ocean.

Now, all mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

The Earth's rotation is slowing down because of this. One hundred years from now, the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it is now.

This same process took place billions of years ago--but the Moon was slowed down by the tides raised on it by the Earth. That's why the Moon always keeps the same face pointed toward the Earth. Because the Earth is so much larger than the Moon, this process, called tidal locking, took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Many physicists considered the effects of tides on the Earth-Moon system. However, George Howard Darwin (Charles Darwin's son) was the first person to work out, in a mathematical way, how the Moon's orbit would evolve due to tidal friction, in the late 19th century. He is usually credited with the invention of the modern theory of tidal evolution.
Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?

 

[daws101]

Are you sure you don't mean Neo Darwinism ?

I'm sure I don't ...even though you wish (like your belief) i DID!

Well Neo is losing more and more credibility with more and more evidence being discovered.

that's an odd statement, since your evidence is not evidence, and your source is bias and not objective it has no credibility to start with.
also can't you tell when a post not directed to you?--asshat!

 

[Youwerecreated]

Thanks for the response.

So is it fair to say that a “creationist” holds a much more specific view of how the universe was created (as you reference scripture) than say an “intelligent design” person?

In my view the intelligence that created life is God. I believe in some of the views of an ID person scientifically but I also disagree with some of their views. I believe in some of the views of creationism but I also disagree with some views of creationism. I believe life is older then what creationists say but much younger then the ID people believe. So I would be half and half. God says according to the scriptures that a 1,000 years is a day to God that each day of creation took a thousand years.

you got that ass backwards.
the scriptures SAY that god said...either way it's wrong.
if anything, since the planet was spining faster in the past, days and nights were shorter.
which brings up the question of the moon..
it's been proven that the moon is moving away from the earth at a steady rate.
in your reader digest version of earth's existence, the moon would have to have been moving faster away from the earth then, slow down to be where it is now.


The Moon's orbit (its circular path around the Earth) is indeed getting larger, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) I wouldn't say that the Moon is getting closer to the Sun, specifically, though--it is getting farther from the Earth, so, when it's in the part of its orbit closest to the Sun, it's closer, but when it's in the part of its orbit farthest from the Sun, it's farther away.

The reason for the increase is that the Moon raises tides on the Earth. Because the side of the Earth that faces the Moon is closer, it feels a stronger pull of gravity than the center of the Earth. Similarly, the part of the Earth facing away from the Moon feels less gravity than the center of the Earth. This effect stretches the Earth a bit, making it a little bit oblong. We call the parts that stick out "tidal bulges." The actual solid body of the Earth is distorted a few centimeters, but the most noticable effect is the tides raised on the ocean.

Now, all mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

The Earth's rotation is slowing down because of this. One hundred years from now, the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it is now.

This same process took place billions of years ago--but the Moon was slowed down by the tides raised on it by the Earth. That's why the Moon always keeps the same face pointed toward the Earth. Because the Earth is so much larger than the Moon, this process, called tidal locking, took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Many physicists considered the effects of tides on the Earth-Moon system. However, George Howard Darwin (Charles Darwin's son) was the first person to work out, in a mathematical way, how the Moon's orbit would evolve due to tidal friction, in the late 19th century. He is usually credited with the invention of the modern theory of tidal evolution.
Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?

I have what ass backwards ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I'm sure I don't ...even though you wish (like your belief) i DID!

Well Neo is losing more and more credibility with more and more evidence being discovered.

that's an odd statement, since your evidence is not evidence, and your source is bias and not objective it has no credibility to start with.
also can't you tell when a post not directed to you?--asshat!

You quoted me ,sometimes I respond to your idiotic and uneducated comments. I know your theory better then you and mine too.

 

[daws101]

In my view the intelligence that created life is God. I believe in some of the views of an ID person scientifically but I also disagree with some of their views. I believe in some of the views of creationism but I also disagree with some views of creationism. I believe life is older then what creationists say but much younger then the ID people believe. So I would be half and half. God says according to the scriptures that a 1,000 years is a day to God that each day of creation took a thousand years.

you got that ass backwards.
the scriptures SAY that god said...either way it's wrong.
if anything, since the planet was spining faster in the past, days and nights were shorter.
which brings up the question of the moon..
it's been proven that the moon is moving away from the earth at a steady rate.
in your reader digest version of earth's existence, the moon would have to have been moving faster away from the earth then, slow down to be where it is now.


The Moon's orbit (its circular path around the Earth) is indeed getting larger, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) I wouldn't say that the Moon is getting closer to the Sun, specifically, though--it is getting farther from the Earth, so, when it's in the part of its orbit closest to the Sun, it's closer, but when it's in the part of its orbit farthest from the Sun, it's farther away.

The reason for the increase is that the Moon raises tides on the Earth. Because the side of the Earth that faces the Moon is closer, it feels a stronger pull of gravity than the center of the Earth. Similarly, the part of the Earth facing away from the Moon feels less gravity than the center of the Earth. This effect stretches the Earth a bit, making it a little bit oblong. We call the parts that stick out "tidal bulges." The actual solid body of the Earth is distorted a few centimeters, but the most noticable effect is the tides raised on the ocean.

Now, all mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

The Earth's rotation is slowing down because of this. One hundred years from now, the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it is now.

This same process took place billions of years ago--but the Moon was slowed down by the tides raised on it by the Earth. That's why the Moon always keeps the same face pointed toward the Earth. Because the Earth is so much larger than the Moon, this process, called tidal locking, took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Many physicists considered the effects of tides on the Earth-Moon system. However, George Howard Darwin (Charles Darwin's son) was the first person to work out, in a mathematical way, how the Moon's orbit would evolve due to tidal friction, in the late 19th century. He is usually credited with the invention of the modern theory of tidal evolution.
Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?

I have what ass backwards ?

this ..."God says according to the scriptures"

 

[daws101]

Well Neo is losing more and more credibility with more and more evidence being discovered.

that's an odd statement, since your evidence is not evidence, and your source is bias and not objective it has no credibility to start with.
also can't you tell when a post not directed to you?--asshat!

You quoted me ,sometimes I respond to your idiotic and uneducated comments. I know your theory better then you and mine too.

that's false declaratory statement .
you as always have no evidence to base your bullshit on.

 

[UltimateReality]

this process, called tidal locking, took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Ahhh, there you go with the assumptive language thinking no one would catch it. I'm sure what you meant to say was "scientist BELIEVE this process took place very quickly". Maybe your comprehension disability is getting the best of you.

"belief only proves belief,it is not evidence of the thing believed in."

I love how you completely failed to respond to the lack of evidence for unguided human evolution post, rather choosing to engage in other logical fallacies. Did you notice how KevinWestern presented an opposing viewpoint with calm, intelligent speech, as well as respect for others viewpoints? Did you see how said respect illicited a very thoughtful and respectful response?

 

[UltimateReality]

I'm sure I don't ...even though you wish (like your belief) i DID!

Well Neo is losing more and more credibility with more and more evidence being discovered.

that's an odd statement, since your evidence is not evidence, and your source is bias and not objective it has no credibility to start with.
also can't you tell when a post not directed to you?--asshat!

Here you go. You need this the most of anyone on here, regular offender of Ad Hominem, confirmation bias (all evolutionists love this one) and Begging the Question...

http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/

 

[UltimateReality]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=259r-iDckjQ&feature=player_embedded]Evolution is a Natural Process Running Backward - YouTube[/ame]

 

[UltimateReality]

Ahhhh, Creation. You won't want to miss this. To be enjoyed by Creationists and Darwinists alike...

MAke sure you go full screen...

Magnifying the Universe

 

[UltimateReality]

Reminds me of DAWS101...


"The earliest cells were unstable chemical systems that survived by combining a handful of shaky carbon-based assemblies together, researchers say."

How do “researchers” know that the earliest cells were unstable chemical systems that survived by combining a handful of shaky carbon-based assemblies together? They know no such thing. They just made it all up. All evidence suggests that the earliest cells must have been highly sophisticated information-processing systems. There is no known chemical or stochastic mechanism that can accomplish this task.

The most important point is to notice the rhetoric: The earliest cells were… This is a statement of certitude — essentially a statement of fact.

The title of the article referenced above is: How the first life on Earth struggled to survive. An honest title would be: Yet more unsupported speculation about how the first life on Earth struggled to survive.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/utterly-unsupported-speculation-presented-as-fact/

 

[Youwerecreated]

you got that ass backwards.
the scriptures SAY that god said...either way it's wrong.
if anything, since the planet was spining faster in the past, days and nights were shorter.
which brings up the question of the moon..
it's been proven that the moon is moving away from the earth at a steady rate.
in your reader digest version of earth's existence, the moon would have to have been moving faster away from the earth then, slow down to be where it is now.


The Moon's orbit (its circular path around the Earth) is indeed getting larger, at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year. (The Moon's orbit has a radius of 384,000 km.) I wouldn't say that the Moon is getting closer to the Sun, specifically, though--it is getting farther from the Earth, so, when it's in the part of its orbit closest to the Sun, it's closer, but when it's in the part of its orbit farthest from the Sun, it's farther away.

The reason for the increase is that the Moon raises tides on the Earth. Because the side of the Earth that faces the Moon is closer, it feels a stronger pull of gravity than the center of the Earth. Similarly, the part of the Earth facing away from the Moon feels less gravity than the center of the Earth. This effect stretches the Earth a bit, making it a little bit oblong. We call the parts that stick out "tidal bulges." The actual solid body of the Earth is distorted a few centimeters, but the most noticable effect is the tides raised on the ocean.

Now, all mass exerts a gravitational force, and the tidal bulges on the Earth exert a gravitational pull on the Moon. Because the Earth rotates faster (once every 24 hours) than the Moon orbits (once every 27.3 days) the bulge tries to "speed up" the Moon, and pull it ahead in its orbit. The Moon is also pulling back on the tidal bulge of the Earth, slowing the Earth's rotation. Tidal friction, caused by the movement of the tidal bulge around the Earth, takes energy out of the Earth and puts it into the Moon's orbit, making the Moon's orbit bigger (but, a bit pardoxically, the Moon actually moves slower!).

The Earth's rotation is slowing down because of this. One hundred years from now, the day will be 2 milliseconds longer than it is now.

This same process took place billions of years ago--but the Moon was slowed down by the tides raised on it by the Earth. That's why the Moon always keeps the same face pointed toward the Earth. Because the Earth is so much larger than the Moon, this process, called tidal locking, took place very quickly, in a few tens of millions of years.

Many physicists considered the effects of tides on the Earth-Moon system. However, George Howard Darwin (Charles Darwin's son) was the first person to work out, in a mathematical way, how the Moon's orbit would evolve due to tidal friction, in the late 19th century. He is usually credited with the invention of the modern theory of tidal evolution.
Curious About Astronomy: Is the Moon moving away from the Earth? When was this discovered?

I have what ass backwards ?

this ..."God says according to the scriptures"

That is purposefully done so I don't put words in God's mouth. To make sure if there was a mistake in translation I am not speaking for God.

I have no reason to believe there are no mistakes except other then when translating from one language to another.

 

[Youwerecreated]

that's an odd statement, since your evidence is not evidence, and your source is bias and not objective it has no credibility to start with.
also can't you tell when a post not directed to you?--asshat!

You quoted me ,sometimes I respond to your idiotic and uneducated comments. I know your theory better then you and mine too.

that's false declaratory statement .
you as always have no evidence to base your bullshit on.

I have with the bible by pointing out that the bible had foreknowledge before certain things were known to science. So what would you like to discuss concerning your theory ?

 

[Dr Grump]

You quoted me ,sometimes I respond to your idiotic and uneducated comments. I know your theory better then you and mine too.

that's false declaratory statement .
you as always have no evidence to base your bullshit on.

I have with the bible by pointing out that the bible had foreknowledge before certain things were known to science. So what would you like to discuss concerning your theory ?

I call BS.
examples please...