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So, you admit that Creationism is religion, correct? And Intelligent-Design theory is demonstrably (and has been demonstrated both in this forum and in court of law) Creationism dressed in the vocabulary of science, correct? And you maintain that Intelligent-Design theory is science, correct?How strange that you would make reference to logic and reasoning. You and the other fundie had insisted that creation "science" was a viable method to counter evolution, the biological sciences and the physical sciences. You both recently abandoned that strategy altogether and finally admitted that creation science is simply lies, deceit and falsehood as mere attempts to assign credibility to what amounts to fear and superstition.Revisionism runs in yours and Hollie's veins. Why would assume anything else other than your total and complete denial of the truth? You are a LIAR and anyone with half a brain that read the threads can see right through your shenanigans.
I said it before but now you have convinced me, arguing with you is akin to arguing with a drunk. There is no logic or reasoning to be found with you and no honor whatsoever.
Your intellectual dishonesty is appalling. Seriously, Hollie, you and Loki think if you repeat something enough times it will be true. I have never claimed Creationism is anything but religion. Please produce a link or cease and desist with your LIES.
Agreed.Mental midget.
So what's your problem now? Why do you refuse to explain this "God" thing of yours? Is it because I'm a mental midget? Is that it?
So I admit that I have no idea what you're talking about. You've brought up this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is.
Now, I have been exposed--presumably by intellects of such small stature that they are dwarfed by mental midgets--to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."
Even a mental midget can see that those clearly don't count, right? Even a mental midget can see that those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. ...
No, YOU cannot.
--QUESTION-BEGGING SUPERSTITIOUS APPEAL TO SCRIPTURE SNIPPED--
No. This attempt of yours to crawfish away from your intentional misrepresentations by calling them "sarcasm," is a dog that just won't hunt.I have my doubts, but hope spring eternal, I suppose.So I think I understand what you are saying.
As explained, this is not the entirety of the theory; aside from that, I have no disagreement with this.
No. You simply REFUSE to disabuse yourself of your logically fallacious paradigm.So basically you are saying our evidence for this is the fact that any mutations that survived must have been the ones that contributed to the organisms ability to survive and reproduce or they wouldn't have survived and reproduced. [Emphasis added by LOki]
Guess even sarcasm alludes you.
Oh you poor dear. You're having second thoughts about admitting the agenda of the creationist ministries you copy and paste from. Your agenda was always to promote "creation science" as a viable alternative to verifiable, peer reviewed science. Of course it is not and for some unknown reason, you expect to have appeals to a supermagical entity taken seriously.
So where's the link? Provide it now or I will require you to cease and desist.
Lies certainly are a part of the creationist agenda. Isn't it a shame that you aside from your cut and paste arguments failing, you eventually were forced to admit that your entire agenda was a religious one and not a truthful or accurate one.
If man was made by intelligent design, who made our creator?
Also, if we were made by intelligent design, why?
So, you admit that Creationism is religion, correct? And Intelligent-Design theory is demonstrably (and has been demonstrated both in this forum and in court of law) Creationism dressed in the vocabulary of science, correct? And you maintain that Intelligent-Design theory is science, correct?How strange that you would make reference to logic and reasoning. You and the other fundie had insisted that creation "science" was a viable method to counter evolution, the biological sciences and the physical sciences. You both recently abandoned that strategy altogether and finally admitted that creation science is simply lies, deceit and falsehood as mere attempts to assign credibility to what amounts to fear and superstition.
Your intellectual dishonesty is appalling. Seriously, Hollie, you and Loki think if you repeat something enough times it will be true. I have never claimed Creationism is anything but religion. Please produce a link or cease and desist with your LIES.
Hence, ...
Well gee, hon, I suspect your gay hating, fundie parents never explained to you the obvious errors and contradictions that riddle the bible. You can certainly re- write the portions that are contradictory and add your own context to explain the errors and contradictions, but they still exist. What a shame that the various authors of the bible were sloppy editors. What a shame that the various authors didn't cross check their work. It should have been a simple exercise to maintain a certain consistency in the tales and fables but that never happened.Hollie, thanks for your strawman fundie evangelical insights into the Bible. I'm sure these beliefs about the Bible of yours came from your gay-hating fundie parents. Or like you always do, you cut and pasted from a atheist fundie website. However, the Bible is not a magical book. It is collection of 66 different books, by many different authors, being written at different points in history, to specific cultures in each instance. While scripture is inspired by God, it must be taken in the context of the time and customs and peoples for which it was written.
ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30 Verse taken out of context. The whole passage describes a dream in which Jacob wrestled with a man all night, who he wound up perceiving as God.
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26
"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19 Note: not "would not" but could not. The "He" here refers to Judah, not God. While all things are possible, sometimes they are not according to God's purpose.
ON MAKING GRAVEN IMAGES
"[And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying...] And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." (Exodus 25:18)
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water". (Lev. 26:1)
Nice try on reversing the order of these verses. Exodus came before Leviticus chronologically. The Levitical law was laid down after Exodus.
ON PUNISHING CRIME
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5 This verse, when taken in context, is a punctuation to the commandment of worshiping other gods.
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
Again, let's reverse the order above to put in proper context and read Ezekiel 18:3. You will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child-both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die. [This verse hints at a NEW Covenant that God was going to make with Israel]
ON TEMPTATION
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1 Most translations read "tested Abraham". Again, James was written LONG after Genesis, and while Genesis was inspired scripture, James was also written after God had come to the earth and dwelt among us.
ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26 Again, you are plucking this verse out of context, and not only the context of this specific passage, but also the context of everything else Jesus said while he was here on earth. In the context of the passage, Jesus knew that many relatives would react adversely to a person's conversion. He is just saying you need to love Me more and do My will, rather than succumbing to pressure from parents or siblings that would want you to renounce Christ and continue in the Jewish tradition.
ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
Jews to this day have differing views about heaven or the afterlife.
Jewish Views of the Afterlife - The Afterlife in Judaism
Up until Christ came, there was not much mention in the Old Testament of the afterlife. However, the passage you quoted from John is Christ speaking directly. This is God in the flesh, speaking absolute truth. Many are confused why Christ came to earth, but he tells us in John 18:37, when he was about to be crucified and Pilate was questioning him "...the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." Jesus came to earth to tell us what ultimate reality is.
You will find many so called "contridictions" when you apply your fundie, strawman view of the Bible to the Bible. You lack understanding and therefore, you cannot perceive spiritual things.
Agreed.
So what's your problem now? Why do you refuse to explain this "God" thing of yours? Is it because I'm a mental midget? Is that it?
So I admit that I have no idea what you're talking about. You've brought up this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is.
Now, I have been exposed--presumably by intellects of such small stature that they are dwarfed by mental midgets--to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."
Even a mental midget can see that those clearly don't count, right? Even a mental midget can see that those "God" things are obviously fraudulent. ...
No, YOU cannot.
--QUESTION-BEGGING SUPERSTITIOUS APPEAL TO SCRIPTURE SNIPPED--
So what's your problem now? Why do you refuse to explain this "God" thing of yours?
I admitted that I have no idea what you're talking about. You've brought up this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is. WHY IS THAT?
Now, I have been exposed--presumably by intellects of such small stature that they are dwarfed by mental midgets--to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."
Even a mental midget can see that those clearly don't count, right? Even a mental midget can see that those logically fallacious accounts "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and explain this "God" thing you reference in terms that even a mental midget can understand.
Well gee, hon, I suspect your gay hating, fundie parents never explained to you the obvious errors and contradictions that riddle the bible. You can certainly re- write the portions that are contradictory and add your own context to explain the errors and contradictions, but they still exist. What a shame that the various authors of the bible were sloppy editors. What a shame that the various authors didn't cross check their work. It should have been a simple exercise to maintain a certain consistency in the tales and fables but that never happened.Hollie, thanks for your strawman fundie evangelical insights into the Bible. I'm sure these beliefs about the Bible of yours came from your gay-hating fundie parents. Or like you always do, you cut and pasted from a atheist fundie website. However, the Bible is not a magical book. It is collection of 66 different books, by many different authors, being written at different points in history, to specific cultures in each instance. While scripture is inspired by God, it must be taken in the context of the time and customs and peoples for which it was written.
ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30 Verse taken out of context. The whole passage describes a dream in which Jacob wrestled with a man all night, who he wound up perceiving as God.
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26
"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19 Note: not "would not" but could not. The "He" here refers to Judah, not God. While all things are possible, sometimes they are not according to God's purpose.
ON MAKING GRAVEN IMAGES
"[And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying...] And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." (Exodus 25:18)
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water". (Lev. 26:1)
Nice try on reversing the order of these verses. Exodus came before Leviticus chronologically. The Levitical law was laid down after Exodus.
ON PUNISHING CRIME
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5 This verse, when taken in context, is a punctuation to the commandment of worshiping other gods.
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
Again, let's reverse the order above to put in proper context and read Ezekiel 18:3. You will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child-both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die. [This verse hints at a NEW Covenant that God was going to make with Israel]
ON TEMPTATION
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1 Most translations read "tested Abraham". Again, James was written LONG after Genesis, and while Genesis was inspired scripture, James was also written after God had come to the earth and dwelt among us.
ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26 Again, you are plucking this verse out of context, and not only the context of this specific passage, but also the context of everything else Jesus said while he was here on earth. In the context of the passage, Jesus knew that many relatives would react adversely to a person's conversion. He is just saying you need to love Me more and do My will, rather than succumbing to pressure from parents or siblings that would want you to renounce Christ and continue in the Jewish tradition.
ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
Jews to this day have differing views about heaven or the afterlife.
Jewish Views of the Afterlife - The Afterlife in Judaism
Up until Christ came, there was not much mention in the Old Testament of the afterlife. However, the passage you quoted from John is Christ speaking directly. This is God in the flesh, speaking absolute truth. Many are confused why Christ came to earth, but he tells us in John 18:37, when he was about to be crucified and Pilate was questioning him "...the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." Jesus came to earth to tell us what ultimate reality is.
You will find many so called "contridictions" when you apply your fundie, strawman view of the Bible to the Bible. You lack understanding and therefore, you cannot perceive spiritual things.
You should consider cutting and pasting more excuses from fundie websites
Fundies are so cute when they manufacture their arguments to excuse their gods from any rational, logical point of consistency.If man was made by intelligent design, who made our creator?
Also, if we were made by intelligent design, why?
Catch up, will you? The Creator has always been and will always be. He has no beginning and no end. He exists outside of space, matter, time and energy. Before you scream foul, and try to employ your turtles all the way down fallacy like Hollie blatantly continues to do even in light of evidence refuting here fallacious argument, you should know that during Einsteins time as a scientist, they believed the universe had always existed and was eternal. So now, Hollie, thinking she is on par with Einstein, continues to believe that a Creator who has no beginning and no end, is impossible, and she continue to misapply the argument of a beginning necessitating a cause. Since our Creator has no beginning, He has no need for a cause, and no need for another creator of Him. This is a metaphysical argument, not provable by science (neither is the multiple universe theory or many quantum arguments). However, it is entirely LOGICAL. Hollie's and your argument, in light of the stated beliefs of Christians about the Creator, is very much NOT logical.
Of course this won't stop Rugged Touch from saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
No. This attempt of yours to crawfish away from your intentional misrepresentations by calling them "sarcasm," is a dog that just won't hunt.I have my doubts, but hope spring eternal, I suppose.
As explained, this is not the entirety of the theory; aside from that, I have no disagreement with this.
No. You simply REFUSE to disabuse yourself of your logically fallacious paradigm.
Guess even sarcasm alludes you.
Well gee, hon, I suspect your gay hating, fundie parents never explained to you the obvious errors and contradictions that riddle the bible. You can certainly re- write the portions that are contradictory and add your own context to explain the errors and contradictions, but they still exist. What a shame that the various authors of the bible were sloppy editors. What a shame that the various authors didn't cross check their work. It should have been a simple exercise to maintain a certain consistency in the tales and fables but that never happened.Hollie, thanks for your strawman fundie evangelical insights into the Bible. I'm sure these beliefs about the Bible of yours came from your gay-hating fundie parents. Or like you always do, you cut and pasted from a atheist fundie website. However, the Bible is not a magical book. It is collection of 66 different books, by many different authors, being written at different points in history, to specific cultures in each instance. While scripture is inspired by God, it must be taken in the context of the time and customs and peoples for which it was written.
ON SEEING GOD
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30 Verse taken out of context. The whole passage describes a dream in which Jacob wrestled with a man all night, who he wound up perceiving as God.
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
ON THE POWER OF GOD
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26
"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drove out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19 Note: not "would not" but could not. The "He" here refers to Judah, not God. While all things are possible, sometimes they are not according to God's purpose.
ON MAKING GRAVEN IMAGES
"[And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying...] And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them." (Exodus 25:18)
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water". (Lev. 26:1)
Nice try on reversing the order of these verses. Exodus came before Leviticus chronologically. The Levitical law was laid down after Exodus.
ON PUNISHING CRIME
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5 This verse, when taken in context, is a punctuation to the commandment of worshiping other gods.
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
Again, let's reverse the order above to put in proper context and read Ezekiel 18:3. You will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child-both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die. [This verse hints at a NEW Covenant that God was going to make with Israel]
ON TEMPTATION
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1 Most translations read "tested Abraham". Again, James was written LONG after Genesis, and while Genesis was inspired scripture, James was also written after God had come to the earth and dwelt among us.
ON FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26 Again, you are plucking this verse out of context, and not only the context of this specific passage, but also the context of everything else Jesus said while he was here on earth. In the context of the passage, Jesus knew that many relatives would react adversely to a person's conversion. He is just saying you need to love Me more and do My will, rather than succumbing to pressure from parents or siblings that would want you to renounce Christ and continue in the Jewish tradition.
ON RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
Jews to this day have differing views about heaven or the afterlife.
Jewish Views of the Afterlife - The Afterlife in Judaism
Up until Christ came, there was not much mention in the Old Testament of the afterlife. However, the passage you quoted from John is Christ speaking directly. This is God in the flesh, speaking absolute truth. Many are confused why Christ came to earth, but he tells us in John 18:37, when he was about to be crucified and Pilate was questioning him "...the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." Jesus came to earth to tell us what ultimate reality is.
You will find many so called "contridictions" when you apply your fundie, strawman view of the Bible to the Bible. You lack understanding and therefore, you cannot perceive spiritual things.
You should consider cutting and pasting more excuses from fundie websites
Unlike you, poor dear, all the red letters are my OWN THOUGHTS. If you could just stop hating your gay-hating, fundie parents, a huge weight will be lifted from you. Your intense hatred for them is poisoning your soul.
Fundies are so cute when they manufacture their arguments to excuse their gods from any rational, logical point of consistency.If man was made by intelligent design, who made our creator?
Also, if we were made by intelligent design, why?
Catch up, will you? The Creator has always been and will always be. He has no beginning and no end. He exists outside of space, matter, time and energy. Before you scream foul, and try to employ your turtles all the way down fallacy like Hollie blatantly continues to do even in light of evidence refuting here fallacious argument, you should know that during Einsteins time as a scientist, they believed the universe had always existed and was eternal. So now, Hollie, thinking she is on par with Einstein, continues to believe that a Creator who has no beginning and no end, is impossible, and she continue to misapply the argument of a beginning necessitating a cause. Since our Creator has no beginning, He has no need for a cause, and no need for another creator of Him. This is a metaphysical argument, not provable by science (neither is the multiple universe theory or many quantum arguments). However, it is entirely LOGICAL. Hollie's and your argument, in light of the stated beliefs of Christians about the Creator, is very much NOT logical.
Of course this won't stop Rugged Touch from saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...
The fundie argument is simply to appeal to magic as an argument for the gods.
What fundies cannot address is the hierarchy of gods which would have been required to manufacture their gods.
Well gee, hon, I suspect your gay hating, fundie parents never explained to you the obvious errors and contradictions that riddle the bible. You can certainly re- write the portions that are contradictory and add your own context to explain the errors and contradictions, but they still exist. What a shame that the various authors of the bible were sloppy editors. What a shame that the various authors didn't cross check their work. It should have been a simple exercise to maintain a certain consistency in the tales and fables but that never happened.
You should consider cutting and pasting more excuses from fundie websites
Unlike you, poor dear, all the red letters are my OWN THOUGHTS. If you could just stop hating your gay-hating, fundie parents, a huge weight will be lifted from you. Your intense hatred for them is poisoning your soul.
Honestly, dear, forgive your gay hating fundie parents for the damage they have caused you.
Let go of fear and superstition and you will no longer be a slave to living in trembling fear of ancient tales designed to coerce behavior from the ignorant and gullible.
No, YOU cannot.
--QUESTION-BEGGING SUPERSTITIOUS APPEAL TO SCRIPTURE SNIPPED--
So what's your problem now? Why do you refuse to explain this "God" thing of yours?
I admitted that I have no idea what you're talking about. You've brought up this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is. WHY IS THAT?
Now, I have been exposed--presumably by intellects of such small stature that they are dwarfed by mental midgets--to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."
Even a mental midget can see that those clearly don't count, right? Even a mental midget can see that those logically fallacious accounts "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and explain this "God" thing you reference in terms that even a mental midget can understand.
You can quit with your strawman argument anytime now.
What strawman? My request for your explanation of this "God" thing of yours cannot by any means be considered an argument for or against anything ... let alone a strawman argument.No, YOU cannot.
--QUESTION-BEGGING SUPERSTITIOUS APPEAL TO SCRIPTURE SNIPPED--
So what's your problem now? Why do you refuse to explain this "God" thing of yours?
I admitted that I have no idea what you're talking about. You've brought up this "God" thing of yours, but have yet to explain what it is. WHY IS THAT?
Now, I have been exposed--presumably by intellects of such small stature that they are dwarfed by mental midgets--to literally hundreds of self-contradictory, question-begging, special-pleading appeal-to-ignorance accounts of some "God."
Even a mental midget can see that those clearly don't count, right? Even a mental midget can see that those logically fallacious accounts "God" things are obviously fraudulent. So help me out here, and explain this "God" thing you reference in terms that even a mental midget can understand.
You can quit with your strawman argument anytime now.
Oh my, but we've employed the self serving claims to "fundie-dom" that you are deserving of special dispensations because of your religious beliefs.Unlike you, poor dear, all the red letters are my OWN THOUGHTS. If you could just stop hating your gay-hating, fundie parents, a huge weight will be lifted from you. Your intense hatred for them is poisoning your soul.
Honestly, dear, forgive your gay hating fundie parents for the damage they have caused you.
Let go of fear and superstition and you will no longer be a slave to living in trembling fear of ancient tales designed to coerce behavior from the ignorant and gullible.
Hollie, I think actions tell the real story. Let's compare the actions of my life to yours offline and see who the slave is. What do you do on a daily basis for anyone other than yourself? Your hatred for yourself and others seethes into your written words. Your lonely and loathsome life screams out every time you type a sentence.
