Criminals know the vast majority of New Yorkers are unarmed and helpless

[frigidweirdo]

On college campuses it is considered "Rape" if a woman consumed any amount of alcohol then had sex. Even if she initiated sex, she is a rape victim thanks to feminazis and limp wristed liberals.

Well, rape is the sort of crime that can be very difficult to distinguish between legitimate and non-legitimate. You need to bear this in mind.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Then what's your excuse for Chicago and Washington D.C.?

Surrounding areas do not have anything resembling sensible gun legislation?

Whaddya think? AmIClose?

Not even remotely. Illinois, until the recent SCOTUS ruling had very restrictive gun laws, throughout the state. Chicago's violence has been a problem for a long time. Maryland is yet another state with very restrictive gun laws. Virginia, not so much, so if you have evidence that D.C.'s murder problem is due to VA gun laws feel free to present it. I suspect we'll all be waiting for an eternity since you don't and won't have any.

Wisconsin has lax gun laws.

So do the 3 cities with the highest murder rate in the country (Detroit, St. Louis, New Orleans) - all three higher than Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York.

 

[P@triot]

You just defeated your own argument genius. New York has much stricter gun laws than Canada - they are completely banned in every capacity except for the rare exceptions when they actually grant a license - and yet New York has an exponentially higher murder rate than Canada.

Oops.....

False.

Handguns are all but banned in Canada.

In the US, you can buy a handgun at Wal-Mart then take it into New York City. They don't sell handguns at Wal-Mart anywhere in Canada. Because of America's much laxer gun laws, guns can easily permeate into New York City. That's not true in Canada. All incoming individuals are stopped and questioned when coming into the border in Canada. All incoming individuals are not stopped and questioned when coming into New York City.

It's also easier to obtain a handgun license in New York City. In Canada, to receive a permit for a handgun, you generally have to show a clear and present danger to yourself, or you are in a certain type of work. I know of no one in Canada who owns a handgun. I know people in NYC who do.

Completely false.

Since 1977, individuals who wish to acquire firearms legally are required to pass a criminal background check. From 1995 on, all firearms were required to be registered, but in April 2012 the requirement to register non-restricted firearms was dropped in every province and territory, except for Quebec (pending litigation). Today, there are two kinds of individual licenses for firearms owners: possess-only and possess-and-acquire.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun laws in New York are exponentially more restrictive. Guns are all but banned in New York (almost all requests for a license are denied - even in the most necessary situations).

And the crime in New York is much higher. Your argument literally defeated itself.

 

[P@triot]

I love when liberals make up "facts" with regards to subjects they know nothing about...

So who made what up?

Sallow did when he called rape an "ambush crime" and gave bizarre Hollywood examples.

Rape is almost always done by someone the victim knew and the term "ambush crime" does not even exist (another example of a liberal desperately attempting to sound like an expert on a topic they know nothing about). Since every crime requires secrecy and the element of surprise, every crime would be an "ambush crime".

Nobody alerts a victim before perpetrating a crime....

 

[Toro]

You just defeated your own argument genius. New York has much stricter gun laws than Canada - they are completely banned in every capacity except for the rare exceptions when they actually grant a license - and yet New York has an exponentially higher murder rate than Canada.

Oops.....

False.

Handguns are all but banned in Canada.

In the US, you can buy a handgun at Wal-Mart then take it into New York City. They don't sell handguns at Wal-Mart anywhere in Canada. Because of America's much laxer gun laws, guns can easily permeate into New York City. That's not true in Canada. All incoming individuals are stopped and questioned when coming into the border in Canada. All incoming individuals are not stopped and questioned when coming into New York City.

It's also easier to obtain a handgun license in New York City. In Canada, to receive a permit for a handgun, you generally have to show a clear and present danger to yourself, or you are in a certain type of work. I know of no one in Canada who owns a handgun. I know people in NYC who do.

Completely false.

Since 1977, individuals who wish to acquire firearms legally are required to pass a criminal background check. From 1995 on, all firearms were required to be registered, but in April 2012 the requirement to register non-restricted firearms was dropped in every province and territory, except for Quebec (pending litigation). Today, there are two kinds of individual licenses for firearms owners: possess-only and possess-and-acquire.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun laws in New York are exponentially more restrictive. Guns are all but banned in New York (almost all requests for a license are denied - even in the most necessary situations).

And the crime in New York is much higher. Your argument literally defeated itself.

I'm Canadian. When you ask Canadians what they generally don't like about the US, they'll tell you two things - the healthcare and the gun laws.

Handguns are effectively banned in Canada. Read your link. I highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument. What you quoted was that non-restricted firearm registration was dropped, which I agree with and support. All restricted guns, i.e. handguns, still must be registered. Rifles are generally permitted in Canada whereas handguns are not. It is very difficult to purchase a handgun in Canada.

From your link.

In the Canadian system, there are three classes of firearms and firearm licences: non-restricted, restricted and prohibited. Prohibited firearms are not forbidden outright, as the name might imply, but their legal possession and acquisition are dependent upon their registration history and an individual's firearm licence.[12] As of December 1, 1998, the prohibited clause must be grandfathered to acquire or possess prohibited firearms. New prohibited licences are available only at the discretion of the Chief Firearms Officer of the province or the RCMP[citation needed]. See Classification of firearms below for complete details on prohibited, restricted and non-restricted firearms. ...

Prohibited firearms include:

Handguns

with a barrel length inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in), or;
that are designed to discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition;

Canada, with 1/10th the population, has nearly 1/100th the number of privately owned handguns.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/canada

It is also generally illegal to carry a handgun in Canada. From your link

Transportation

...
Restricted and prohibited firearms must be: unloaded, made inoperable with a secure locking device, and locked in a sturdy container. Prohibited firearms must also have their bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) removed, if removable.

Display

...

Restricted and prohibited firearms must be unloaded and:

Made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock); and
Locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into.
The bolts or bolt-carriers must be removed, if removable, and stored in a separate locked room that cannot be easily broken into

Ammunition:

Must not be displayed with a firearm that can discharge it

 

[Chris]

Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since 1990.

In 2013, there were 333 homicides, the lowest number since at least 1963 when reliable statistics were first kept.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One statistic that is truly shocking is the Alaskan rape rate. 5 times higher than some rates in the east.

Why? Surely guns stop this sort of thing, or maybe they can just make it worse.

Actually, they might.

Rape is an "ambush" crime. Most rapists come up on women when they least expect it like when they are opening a car door in a parking lot or garage. And women will keep their handguns in their purse. For the most part it's impossible for them to get to it and the Rapist may make use of it.

Yeah, they "might", but it appears that more guns equal more rape, whether it's guns that cause a higher rate of rape is a different matter.

The average rape rate in the US was 26.9 in 2012 United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2012

Alaska is 79.7

Looking at this map of how laws are going in different states after the Newton gun killing.

Those who have passed pro-gun bills are
South Dakota 70.2
Arkansas 42.3
Maine 28.0
Mississippi 27.5

Two of which are massively over average, and two of which are a bit higher.

New York the only one which has past anti gun laws is at 14.6

Now, you could go through all the stats, and you'd find states that have less guns laws and more guns in the hands of people but lower than average rape rates, and others which have are higher.

FBI ? Table 4

However the North East is 19.7
The mid west is 31.7
The south 27.1
The West 27.5

So the lowest area for rape is the North East which is the most liberal of areas, some of the stricter gun laws.

Now, are there other things that have an impact?

Compare States Education Spending for 2014 - Charts

I looked at how much local and state spending goes on education per capita. Alaska has the highest spending, which is worrying.

But, if guns can stop rapes, the question is whether they do so more than they empower men to commit rape with guns when otherwise they wouldn't. Hard to say really because you aren't going to find such stats.

Two states in the Northeast have some of the country's LOOSEST gun laws!

 

[P@triot]

False.

Handguns are all but banned in Canada.

In the US, you can buy a handgun at Wal-Mart then take it into New York City. They don't sell handguns at Wal-Mart anywhere in Canada. Because of America's much laxer gun laws, guns can easily permeate into New York City. That's not true in Canada. All incoming individuals are stopped and questioned when coming into the border in Canada. All incoming individuals are not stopped and questioned when coming into New York City.

It's also easier to obtain a handgun license in New York City. In Canada, to receive a permit for a handgun, you generally have to show a clear and present danger to yourself, or you are in a certain type of work. I know of no one in Canada who owns a handgun. I know people in NYC who do.

Completely false.

Since 1977, individuals who wish to acquire firearms legally are required to pass a criminal background check. From 1995 on, all firearms were required to be registered, but in April 2012 the requirement to register non-restricted firearms was dropped in every province and territory, except for Quebec (pending litigation). Today, there are two kinds of individual licenses for firearms owners: possess-only and possess-and-acquire.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun laws in New York are exponentially more restrictive. Guns are all but banned in New York (almost all requests for a license are denied - even in the most necessary situations).

And the crime in New York is much higher. Your argument literally defeated itself.

I'm Canadian. When you ask Canadians what they generally don't like about the US, they'll tell you two things - the healthcare and the gun laws.

Handguns are effectively banned in Canada. Read your link. I highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument. What you quoted was that non-restricted firearm registration was dropped, which I agree with and support. All restricted guns, i.e. handguns, still must be registered. Rifles are generally permitted in Canada whereas handguns are not. It is very difficult to purchase a handgun in Canada.

Well then you are one seriously confused Canadian. And I just highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument.

The issue was banned. As you just posted yourself, guns are not banned in Canada. Needing to register a gun does not mean "banned".

So I have now proven 3x's that your original argument (ie gun control - as proven by Canada - creates law abiding citizens) defeated itself as New York has stricter vastly distracted gun laws than Canada but exponentially more crime.

But since all of this talk about laws, rates, banned, and register is confusing the hell out of you, what do you say we dumb this down to a basic level? A criminal is someone who doesn't follow the law. Rape is illegal, but rapists still rape (hence the reason they are a criminal). Murder is illegal, but murderers still murder (hence the reason they are a criminal). So what kind of seriously fucked-up "logic" is it to believe that banning guns will cause criminals to put their guns down and stop using them?

This is a simple question...

 

[P@triot]

Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since 1990.

In 2013, there were 333 homicides, the lowest number since at least 1963 when reliable statistics were first kept.

Another liberal lying again. I already disproved this liberal lie in post #123...

And yet assaults (such as the one with the hammer which started this thread) are skyrocketing. Just look at the data... 2008: 24,831 (297.6), 2009: 26,457 (314.9), 2010: 27,309 (327.6), 2011: 29,829 (363.2), 2012: 31,211 (376.5). It has increased significantly every year for four straight years.

Unless Chris here doesn't think assault is a violent crime.....

Crime rate in New York, New York (NY): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics

 

[MaxGrit]

Completely false.

Since 1977, individuals who wish to acquire firearms legally are required to pass a criminal background check. From 1995 on, all firearms were required to be registered, but in April 2012 the requirement to register non-restricted firearms was dropped in every province and territory, except for Quebec (pending litigation). Today, there are two kinds of individual licenses for firearms owners: possess-only and possess-and-acquire.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun laws in New York are exponentially more restrictive. Guns are all but banned in New York (almost all requests for a license are denied - even in the most necessary situations).

And the crime in New York is much higher. Your argument literally defeated itself.

I'm Canadian. When you ask Canadians what they generally don't like about the US, they'll tell you two things - the healthcare and the gun laws.

Handguns are effectively banned in Canada. Read your link. I highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument. What you quoted was that non-restricted firearm registration was dropped, which I agree with and support. All restricted guns, i.e. handguns, still must be registered. Rifles are generally permitted in Canada whereas handguns are not. It is very difficult to purchase a handgun in Canada.

Well then you are one seriously confused Canadian. And I just highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument.

The issue was banned. As you just posted yourself, guns are not banned in Canada. Needing to register a gun does not mean "banned".

So I have now proven 3x's that your original argument (ie gun control - as proven by Canada - creates law abiding citizens) defeated itself as New York has stricter vastly distracted gun laws than Canada but exponentially more crime.

But since all of this talk about laws, rates, banned, and register is confusing the hell out of you, what do you say we dumb this down to a basic level? A criminal is someone who doesn't follow the law. Rape is illegal, but rapists still rape (hence the reason they are a criminal). Murder is illegal, but murderers still murder (hence the reason they are a criminal). So what kind of seriously fucked-up "logic" is it to believe that banning guns will cause criminals to put their guns down and stop using them?

This is a simple question...

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

 

[Toro]

Completely false.

Since 1977, individuals who wish to acquire firearms legally are required to pass a criminal background check. From 1995 on, all firearms were required to be registered, but in April 2012 the requirement to register non-restricted firearms was dropped in every province and territory, except for Quebec (pending litigation). Today, there are two kinds of individual licenses for firearms owners: possess-only and possess-and-acquire.

Gun politics in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun laws in New York are exponentially more restrictive. Guns are all but banned in New York (almost all requests for a license are denied - even in the most necessary situations).

And the crime in New York is much higher. Your argument literally defeated itself.

I'm Canadian. When you ask Canadians what they generally don't like about the US, they'll tell you two things - the healthcare and the gun laws.

Handguns are effectively banned in Canada. Read your link. I highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument. What you quoted was that non-restricted firearm registration was dropped, which I agree with and support. All restricted guns, i.e. handguns, still must be registered. Rifles are generally permitted in Canada whereas handguns are not. It is very difficult to purchase a handgun in Canada.

Well then you are one seriously confused Canadian. And I just highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument.

The issue was banned. As you just posted yourself, guns are not banned in Canada. Needing to register a gun does not mean "banned".

So I have now proven 3x's that your original argument (ie gun control - as proven by Canada - creates law abiding citizens) defeated itself as New York has stricter vastly distracted gun laws than Canada but exponentially more crime.

But since all of this talk about laws, rates, banned, and register is confusing the hell out of you, what do you say we dumb this down to a basic level? A criminal is someone who doesn't follow the law. Rape is illegal, but rapists still rape (hence the reason they are a criminal). Murder is illegal, but murderers still murder (hence the reason they are a criminal). So what kind of seriously fucked-up "logic" is it to believe that banning guns will cause criminals to put their guns down and stop using them?

This is a simple question...

You have proven that you are a highly partisan ideologue unable to process empirical data that contradicts your worldview, and who instead relies upon simplistic slogans and bromides to reinforce your confirmation bias. You are interested only in reinforcing your ideology and beliefs, regardless if they are true or not. I, on the other hand, have not stated my views on gun ownership. But because you are unable to process the difference between ideology and empiricism, you assume that anyone who contradicts your worldview is for gun control.

You know little of Canada, neither the laws nor the culture. As I have shown, even though Canada has a higher rate of ethnicity than Idaho, it has a lower murder rate. It also has a significantly lower murder rate than all the United States. I have also shown that the rate of handgun ownership is 1/10th that of the United States. Gun control laws are much stricter in Canada than anywhere in the US, and all you were able to "prove" was that you didn't understand the difference between gun registry laws and the laws that prohibit the ownership and use of guns in Canada.

But since you're hear to promote your ideology, that doesn't matter.

 

[francoHFW]

Background checks are also new. Too bad all the guns come from idiot red states...

Background checks have been the law for decades.

Now NY has them to buy bullets too...also more mental health regs, etc...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Two states in the Northeast have some of the country's LOOSEST gun laws!

I know. What's your point?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Why's that? Do you say this because it's just easier to throw insults than it is to actually use your brain?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Another liberal lying again. I already disproved this liberal lie in post #123...

And yet assaults (such as the one with the hammer which started this thread) are skyrocketing. Just look at the data... 2008: 24,831 (297.6), 2009: 26,457 (314.9), 2010: 27,309 (327.6), 2011: 29,829 (363.2), 2012: 31,211 (376.5). It has increased significantly every year for four straight years.

Unless Chris here doesn't think assault is a violent crime.....

Crime rate in New York, New York (NY): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics

Actually he's not lying. Nor are you. Facts can say many different things depending on how you look at them.

The crime rate has dropped since the 1990s, the violent crime rate is 2 1/2 times lower than it was. However it has risen in the past few years, but it's still a lot lower, and you'd expect a rise in bad economic times.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downlo...cal_seven_major_felony_offenses_2000-2013.pdf

Murder has been dropping since 2010.
Rape has been dropping since 2011.
Robbery is lower than any time since 2009.
Felony Assaults have risen to a high not seen since 2001.
Burglary rose in 2012 and then dropped massively in 2013.

So, some things go up and others down a bit. But overall trends are that crime has gone down a lot.

Now, to make the suggestion as you did, that this is somehow bad policy in NY because crime has been rising a little, it not taking into account all the other data that's out there, and that's wrong.

NY crime is very low compared to other states with large cities in them.

 

[P@triot]

I'm Canadian. When you ask Canadians what they generally don't like about the US, they'll tell you two things - the healthcare and the gun laws.

Handguns are effectively banned in Canada. Read your link. I highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument. What you quoted was that non-restricted firearm registration was dropped, which I agree with and support. All restricted guns, i.e. handguns, still must be registered. Rifles are generally permitted in Canada whereas handguns are not. It is very difficult to purchase a handgun in Canada.

Well then you are one seriously confused Canadian. And I just highlighted what you incorrectly think supports your argument.

The issue was banned. As you just posted yourself, guns are not banned in Canada. Needing to register a gun does not mean "banned".

So I have now proven 3x's that your original argument (ie gun control - as proven by Canada - creates law abiding citizens) defeated itself as New York has vastly stricter gun laws than Canada but exponentially more crime.

But since all of this talk about laws, rates, banned, and register is confusing the hell out of you, what do you say we dumb this down to a basic level? A criminal is someone who doesn't follow the law. Rape is illegal, but rapists still rape (hence the reason they are a criminal). Murder is illegal, but murderers still murder (hence the reason they are a criminal). So what kind of seriously fucked-up "logic" is it to believe that banning guns will cause criminals to put their guns down and stop using them?

This is a simple question...

You have proven that you are a highly partisan ideologue unable to process empirical data that contradicts your worldview, and who instead relies upon simplistic slogans and bromides to reinforce your confirmation bias. You are interested only in reinforcing your ideology and beliefs, regardless if they are true or not. I, on the other hand, have not stated my views on gun ownership. But because you are unable to process the difference between ideology and empiricism, you assume that anyone who contradicts your worldview is for gun control.

You know little of Canada, neither the laws nor the culture. As I have shown, even though Canada has a higher rate of ethnicity than Idaho, it has a lower murder rate. It also has a significantly lower murder rate than all the United States. I have also shown that the rate of handgun ownership is 1/10th that of the United States. Gun control laws are much stricter in Canada than anywhere in the US, and all you were able to "prove" was that you didn't understand the difference between gun registry laws and the laws that prohibit the ownership and use of guns in Canada.

But since you're hear to promote your ideology, that doesn't matter.

In other words, you just had your ass handed to you with facts and now you're just going to lash out like a child.

Please allow me to hammer the final nail in your coffin on this issue...

Now that I've completely annihilated you in this debate, you're trying to change the subject. You're proclaiming that you haven't shared your views on gun ownership. At no time did we discuss what your view was, at no time did we debate what your view was, and at no time did I mention caring what your views were. So why did you feel the need to suddenly make this an issue - dedicating an entire paragraph to it? Oh that's right - because you're left with nothing you can say on the issue since I pinned you into a corner with a sound, logical, air-tight case which you cannot dispute.

At no time did we discuss Idaho. You keep going back to it because it's the only state which helps make your case. This entire thread was about New York. See the title junior? Since you can't deny the reality that New York has exponentially stricter gun control laws than Canada but inexplicably (in your mind that is) exponentially higher crime as well, you need to change the subject.

It's fall down hilarious that you claim to be a Canadian and are ranting that I know nothing about "Canada, it's laws, or it's culture" when I've clearly proved you wrong on your own nations gun laws. You don't have a clue about your own laws (and sure as hell don't have a clue about America's). You actually believed that "registering" meant "banned". I have an idea for you junior - since this is the U.S. message board, and you're not living in the U.S., why don't you go the fuck away? Worry about your own country junior, we'll worry about ours. Go find a Canadian message board which you can humiliate yourself on by exposing your own lack of knowledge.

Finally, it's clear that you're an ignorant partisan hack who is only here to promote your ideology with misinformation. I asked a very simple question. I dumbed it down for you once I realized that you were so slow, you thought "registering" meant "banned". The question is, since criminals are criminals because they don't follow the law, how in the hell does banning guns stop criminals from using them? The fact that you ran from that question like a little bitch says it all. You didn't even attempt to answer it Becasue you know your position is completely irrational.

Game over.