Critical Shortages in the "Helping Professions": What's Going On?

[SweetSue92]

Bricks and Mortar Public Schools are probably functionally extinct. Education is migrating very quickly toward the digital. I am not sure that will be a net bad thing.

I would not call policing a helping profession.

As for nursing, healthcare is a growing profession and places in our area at least that treat nurses with respect and pay well don't seem to have any problems. The places that treat them slaves and or pay crumbs, not so much.

To your first point, "migrating very quickly toward the digital"....how do you figure this is true? You realize this will only work for older children who can self-monitor right? You realize young kids, say up to age 11 or 12 at least, have to be monitored...right? So what, all these legions of parents in your mind are somehow able or willing to stay home and oversee their "digital education"?

I don't believe you. You're making it up.

Whether or not you call police a helping profession, there is a shortage and we do need them.

It is the governments job to provide access to education, not free babysitting. That your objection is who is going to "monitor" them, I guess they will have to hire baby sitters.

I don't care what you believe.

I don't care if there is a shortage of police. They have tainted their own wells as far as the attractiveness of the profession. However I will note that our local police department has said on more than one occasion they have zero problem finding people wanting to become police. The problem is that your helping professional baby sitters have left them unable to pass the written admissions test. I guess that is what happens when "monitoring" has become more important than "educating".

Okay so because you have an ax to grind against the schools, you made the assertion that digital schools are going to take over.

And in your mind, Single Mom can send her child down the street to Neighborhood School for basically free....OR...she can pay the taxes for Neighborhood School AND, on top of that, pay a daily babysitter so her kid can go to "digital school" all by him/herself while all the neighborhood kids go to school.

Yeah. Sure.

NEXT!

 

[Third Party]

Nationwide, there are critical shortages in nursing, teaching and law enforcement. Shortages vary by area.

A common problem: the American public is increasingly rude and demanding. In short, the advent of the internet and social media has made us ungrateful and crass. The young people in NYC throwing water on cops is a recent example.

When you're in a helping profession, you expect to take some amount of flak and never strike it rich. But who wants to sign up for low pay and abuse?

Not many people, it would seem. Will the American people recover enough manners to restore these professions, or will taxpayers have to front more money?

Or do you see another remedy for the shortages?

On the Nursing Shortage: Nursing Shortage'
Teacher Shortage: Teacher Shortage is 'Real and Growing, and Worse than We Thought'
Police Officer Shortage: Police officer shortage impacts departments

On American Civility: In Theory: Is America becoming less civil?

Sure, cut student debt with teaching jobs, use drones for some police work, free healthcare for nurses and their families.

I'm on board for all of that except please explain "drones for some police work"

When people see a cop they slow down when driving or behave on the street. When they see a drone the same will happen-they will be on film. We need video gamers to run the drones.

Yes, my first thought was the cameras at intersections--so maybe for traffic infractions and the like. But I really think AI and the like won't be effective anytime soon for human interactions because it's too complex and fast-moving to program at THIS point.

A teacher, for example, is said to make 1500 educational decisions a day. And those are not computational but complex and often based on intuition.

I was a teacher-you can offload duties to student teachers or any first or second year college student-that's what they did with us on a limited basis.

 

[sparky]

I was a public servant for 3 decades , i've also been in biz for about as long as a contractor

Yes there has always been a supply/demand ratio , proportional to population & economic factors

And we keep hearing certain sorts beating the 'shortage' drum , which is merely those sorts wanting to demand more for themselves juxtaposed to statistics that befit the age old adage of statistics.

Further , if you're not thick skinned enough to deal with the public, get out, don't whine, find a sheltered profession for yourself

~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

Nationwide, there are critical shortages in nursing, teaching and law enforcement. Shortages vary by area.

A common problem: the American public is increasingly rude and demanding. In short, the advent of the internet and social media has made us ungrateful and crass. The young people in NYC throwing water on cops is a recent example.

When you're in a helping profession, you expect to take some amount of flak and never strike it rich. But who wants to sign up for low pay and abuse?

Not many people, it would seem. Will the American people recover enough manners to restore these professions, or will taxpayers have to front more money?

Or do you see another remedy for the shortages?

On the Nursing Shortage: Nursing Shortage'
Teacher Shortage: Teacher Shortage is 'Real and Growing, and Worse than We Thought'
Police Officer Shortage: Police officer shortage impacts departments

On American Civility: In Theory: Is America becoming less civil?

Sure, cut student debt with teaching jobs, use drones for some police work, free healthcare for nurses and their families.

I'm on board for all of that except please explain "drones for some police work"

When people see a cop they slow down when driving or behave on the street. When they see a drone the same will happen-they will be on film. We need video gamers to run the drones.

Yes, my first thought was the cameras at intersections--so maybe for traffic infractions and the like. But I really think AI and the like won't be effective anytime soon for human interactions because it's too complex and fast-moving to program at THIS point.

A teacher, for example, is said to make 1500 educational decisions a day. And those are not computational but complex and often based on intuition.

I was a teacher-you can offload duties to student teachers or any first or second year college student-that's what they did with us on a limited basis.

I have a family member in Teacher Ed at the university level...PhD. Never had kids of her own and so very active at the state and even nat'l level in all things ed.

A long time ago--about 10 years now--I was telling her about some of the issues I saw coming in public ed and she turned to me, serious as a heart attack and said, "It's over. It's done. Public education is over. The downward spiral cannot recover."

I think this is what she meant. You start farming out a lot of our duties to student teachers and the public perception just gets worse and worse.....

spiral goes down....pay goes down.....

No one goes into it so....they get increasingly unqualified people....

I don't mean to be a total pessimist but, yeah. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what she meant.

 

[Penelope]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

 

[SweetSue92]

I was a public servant for 3 decades , i've also been in biz for about as long as a contractor

Yes there has always been a supply/demand ratio , proportional to population & economic factors

And we keep hearing certain sorts beating the 'shortage' drum , which is merely those sorts wanting to demand more for themselves juxtaposed to statistics that befit the age old adage of statistics.

Further , if you're not thick skinned enough to deal with the public, get out, don't whine, find a sheltered profession for yourself

~S~

Stop finding things to pick at.

We're not talking about ingenues here, we're talking about veterans in each profession. The old adage people used to live by was "Trust but verify". No one does this anymore. There is no "trust" to begin with.

One more veiled personal remark and I'm putting you on ignore.

 

[SweetSue92]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

.......????????........?????????.........?????????

Did anyone read in this thread "What Sue wants in her job?"

 

[Third Party]

Sure, cut student debt with teaching jobs, use drones for some police work, free healthcare for nurses and their families.

I'm on board for all of that except please explain "drones for some police work"

When people see a cop they slow down when driving or behave on the street. When they see a drone the same will happen-they will be on film. We need video gamers to run the drones.

Yes, my first thought was the cameras at intersections--so maybe for traffic infractions and the like. But I really think AI and the like won't be effective anytime soon for human interactions because it's too complex and fast-moving to program at THIS point.

A teacher, for example, is said to make 1500 educational decisions a day. And those are not computational but complex and often based on intuition.

I was a teacher-you can offload duties to student teachers or any first or second year college student-that's what they did with us on a limited basis.

I have a family member in Teacher Ed at the university level...PhD. Never had kids of her own and so very active at the state and even nat'l level in all things ed.

A long time ago--about 10 years now--I was telling her about some of the issues I saw coming in public ed and she turned to me, serious as a heart attack and said, "It's over. It's done. Public education is over. The downward spiral cannot recover."

I think this is what she meant. You start farming out a lot of our duties to student teachers and the public perception just gets worse and worse.....

spiral goes down....pay goes down.....

No one goes into it so....they get increasingly unqualified people....

I don't mean to be a total pessimist but, yeah. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what she meant.

Student teachers are fine with guidance-my father was a teacher and had the smarter kids lead his reading groups-it was something to behold. Your friend is too pessimistic. The push for administrators has created a feelings over character movement that is a LARGE part of the problem. Reduce the administrative overhead, increase the helpers, and merit base performance for EVERYBODY, and we won't have any more "Why can't Johnny Read?".

 

[Third Party]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

I taught in an inner city school with just a piece of chalk. Education comes from within and frequently, you get more parental support from the city than from the suburbs.

 

[SweetSue92]

I'm on board for all of that except please explain "drones for some police work"

When people see a cop they slow down when driving or behave on the street. When they see a drone the same will happen-they will be on film. We need video gamers to run the drones.

Yes, my first thought was the cameras at intersections--so maybe for traffic infractions and the like. But I really think AI and the like won't be effective anytime soon for human interactions because it's too complex and fast-moving to program at THIS point.

A teacher, for example, is said to make 1500 educational decisions a day. And those are not computational but complex and often based on intuition.

I was a teacher-you can offload duties to student teachers or any first or second year college student-that's what they did with us on a limited basis.

I have a family member in Teacher Ed at the university level...PhD. Never had kids of her own and so very active at the state and even nat'l level in all things ed.

A long time ago--about 10 years now--I was telling her about some of the issues I saw coming in public ed and she turned to me, serious as a heart attack and said, "It's over. It's done. Public education is over. The downward spiral cannot recover."

I think this is what she meant. You start farming out a lot of our duties to student teachers and the public perception just gets worse and worse.....

spiral goes down....pay goes down.....

No one goes into it so....they get increasingly unqualified people....

I don't mean to be a total pessimist but, yeah. I'm pretty sure this is exactly what she meant.

Student teachers are fine with guidance-my father was a teacher and had the smarter kids lead his reading groups-it was something to behold. Your friend is too pessimistic. The push for administrators has created a feelings over character movement that is a LARGE part of the problem. Reduce the administrative overhead, increase the helpers, and merit base performance for EVERYBODY, and we won't have any more "Why can't Johnny Read?".

I think my concerns though are realistic, not pessimistic.

Yes, you are correct to cite as a BIG problem the "feelings over character" movement. This is a much, much bigger problem for the *families* we encounter than it is for the children. Young children are fine and always have been. They love to be challenged and love to exceed goals you set for them.

However.

In our self-centered culture, parents in general are much more concerned for the good of their own child in the short-term than they are long-term or community goals.

Is my child HAPPY rather than is my child going to succeed in the long term?

And, is my child part of a successful community hardly even registers. And look, I'm a conservative, NOT a liberal. So I look at that question through a conservative lens. But we have children who come to school lacking very basic manners, and whose parents might think IN THEORY yes, please maintain these standards, but when their children get corrected--not so very much.

It's a social and cultural mess. That's the problem really.

 

[Penelope]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

I taught in an inner city school with just a piece of chalk. Education comes from within and frequently, you get more parental support from the city than from the suburbs.

So more parental support is good, but did you note a shortage of teachers?

 

[SweetSue92]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

I taught in an inner city school with just a piece of chalk. Education comes from within and frequently, you get more parental support from the city than from the suburbs.

Oh believe me. I teach in the 'burbs and generally speaking have very nice families and a great teaching situation. But pervasive in our American culture is OVER-parenting, and it's toxic. TOXIC. It seems there is no middle ground anymore, or very little middle ground, between neglect/abuse and lawnmower parenting. And both are actually very bad.

When I parented my kids I know I seemed like a terrible, even negligent parents sometimes because I refused to over parent them. However, now....it was the best thing going.

 

[Penelope]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

I taught in an inner city school with just a piece of chalk. Education comes from within and frequently, you get more parental support from the city than from the suburbs.

Oh believe me. I teach in the 'burbs and generally speaking have very nice families and a great teaching situation. But pervasive in our American culture is OVER-parenting, and it's toxic. TOXIC. It seems there is no middle ground anymore, or very little middle ground, between neglect/abuse and lawnmower parenting. And both are actually very bad.

When I parented my kids I know I seemed like a terrible, even negligent parents sometimes because I refused to over parent them. However, now....it was the best thing going.

I agree with over parenting and under parenting , there has to be a equal balance.

 

[Third Party]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

No it the poor areas and inner schools that are suffering. Probably highly rural places as well. Do you want more money?

I taught in an inner city school with just a piece of chalk. Education comes from within and frequently, you get more parental support from the city than from the suburbs.

So more parental support is good, but did you note a shortage of teachers?

No

 

[JoeB131]

Top 3% in my district Joe. One of the biggest districts in the state and the best.

Leper with the most fingers... that's awesome.

 

[SweetSue92]

Top 3% in my district Joe. One of the biggest districts in the state and the best.

Leper with the most fingers... that's awesome.

And what productive thing have you done with your life Joe? How you get along with your kids and grandkids?

 

[beautress]

Nationwide, there are critical shortages in nursing, teaching and law enforcement. Shortages vary by area.

A common problem: the American public is increasingly rude and demanding. In short, the advent of the internet and social media has made us ungrateful and crass. The young people in NYC throwing water on cops is a recent example.

When you're in a helping profession, you expect to take some amount of flak and never strike it rich. But who wants to sign up for low pay and abuse?

Not many people, it would seem. Will the American people recover enough manners to restore these professions, or will taxpayers have to front more money?

Or do you see another remedy for the shortages?

On the Nursing Shortage: Nursing Shortage'
Teacher Shortage: Teacher Shortage is 'Real and Growing, and Worse than We Thought'
Police Officer Shortage: Police officer shortage impacts departments

On American Civility: In Theory: Is America becoming less civil?

The reason why there are nursing shortages is due to its professionals are taught empathy and understanding, but are not allowed to practice mercy against the atrocities Democrats have foisted onto medicine to kill instead of to heal.

 

[Anathema]

A life of service to others pays more than just money.

Thst type of pay doesn’t put food on the table or a roof over the head.

More importantly, the danger level of these jobs has increased significantly in recent years from what I’ve seen and heard from friends in these lines of work.

 

[SweetSue92]

A life of service to others pays more than just money.

Thst type of pay doesn’t put food on the table or a roof over the head.

More importantly, the danger level of these jobs has increased significantly in recent years from what I’ve seen and heard from friends in these lines of work.

This is true and is an altogether different aspect. I'm not sure about in nursing, but I know in law enforcement if a suspect/perp so much as touches a cop, they are handcuffed and that's it.

In teaching these days, ALL, and I mean ALL of the rights are on the students' side. I do not know another profession that has a less safe workplace for employees than schools these days....and for kids who are NOT behavior problems! Teachers are expected to be hit, kicked, bitten, had thing thrown at them and just take it. More importantly, we often cannot even touch the perpetrators, not even to defend ourselves.

It's a real mess. It's just one more aspect, as I said.

 

[Anathema]

This is true and is an altogether different aspect. I'm not sure about in nursing, but I know in law enforcement if a suspect/perp so much as touches a cop, they are handcuffed and that's it.

In teaching these days, ALL, and I mean ALL of the rights are on the students' side. I do not know another profession that has a less safe workplace for employees than schools these days....and for kids who are NOT behavior problems! Teachers are expected to be hit, kicked, bitten, had thing thrown at them and just take it. More importantly, we often cannot even touch the perpetrators, not even to defend ourselves.

It's a real mess. It's just one more aspect, as I said.

The problems for nurses are very similar to those of teachers.

Though as I found out through a friend, teachers also have to be vigilant outside of the school. She teaches English at a local urban high school and was stalked online and then in real life by a student who didn’t like his grade in her class. Eventually the police had to become involved and found he had the beginnings of a plan to kidnap and rape her.