Critics of Israel: What WOULD have been the Proper Response by Israel to the Hamas Attacks?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm not seeing how killing a kid with a 2 million dollar smart bomb is less evil than killing a kid with a knife.

Because you are intentionally ignoring the targeting intent. Apologists always have to do this.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Oldestyle
You speak about the "insatiable appetite" for land that Israel has? Would Israel have grown in size if it's neighbors hadn't attacked it repeatedly since it's inception? The borders of Israel have changed over the years because of it's Arab neighbors attacking it without warning attempting to wipe it out....but instead being badly beaten. Israel has never started those conflicts but they have always ended them on top.

Originally posted by Kruska
We won't agree on this one - one can't just blame Israel or the Zionist council of 1947, solely for this.

That the radical Zionist policy was clearly, and still is the total occupation and control of Palestine under a Jewish government is evident.

That the Arab-League basically since 1947 until today; does not agree towards a State of Israel is also clear.

Kruska and Oldestyle are both claiming that the territorial expansion of the jewish state was the result of the palestinian/arab armies armed aggression against the jewish state.

They fail to realize that this is another characteristic of ethnocracies:

They portray not only their territorial expansion and but also the colonization of the newly acquired lands as a mere act of self defence, as a mere consequence on the natives' resistance.

18th, 19th century America denied and today's Israel officially denies the existence of an ethnocratic ideology that underpins their territorial expansion (respectively, Manifest Destiny and the Judaization of the British Mandate) and blamed/blames the expansion entirely of the natives' resistance.

The ethnocracies use the natives' armed resistance as a facade to hide the real driving force behind their successive landgrabs: their own ethnocratic ideologies.

According to 19th century America and 21th century Israel the ideologies of Manifest Destiny and the Judaization of the British Mandate didn't even exist. America now stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific and Israel from the Medirranean to the Jordan river merely as a reaction to the armed struggle of the natives. If it weren't for the natives' violence America would still be the Jamestown settlement and Israel would be the size the UN decided in 47.

But Israel's ethnocratic ideology, the full Judaization of the British Mandate, was stated and reiterated dozens of times by its founder, Ben Gurion, in the 30's and 40's before any arab aggression:

We are prepared to make extremely painful
decisions and renounce to half of Eretz Israel
for the sake of the creation of a jewish state.

Now... we are not total idiots to believe only supremacist states are capable of territorial expansionism. The world has dozens of territorial disputes between non supremacist states and eventually they go to war over it and annex territory.

But most of the times when non-supremacist states are invaded they repell the aggression and remain inside their own borders.

Argentina invaded Britain 40 years ago but Britain didn't use the armed aggression as a pretext to invade Argentina and create english colonies in Buenos Aires, Rosario and Patagonia.

Oldestyle and Kruska tried and analyse Israel's actions in 1948 without taking into consideration the ethnocratic nature of the state and the result didn't make any sense:

Why couldn't Israel behave like most non-supremacist states and stay within the limits established by the UN after it repelled the arab invasion?

Why couldn't it behave like Britain in 82?

Because colonialist ethnocracies use the natives' opposition to its existence to justify their expansionism. This is a common trait all colonialist ethnocracies share.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Oldestyle
So what you're basically saying is that you support the elimination of Israel?
That's your "solution" to the problem, Jose?

Decolonization, Odestyle, plain and simple, but you can call it "the elimination of Israel" if you want to, let's not quibble over semantics.

But don't think for a minute I take the end of Israel lightly.

I'm not going to try and sweeten the pill:

The whole reason behind the creation of the state of Israel was the idea that the security of the jewish people should be in jewish hands for the first time in modern history. The idea that the safety of that religious group, with a vague religious notion of peoplehood, would not depend on the goodwill of gentile rulers.

The peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel will probably mean the end of that safe haven and most Jews will probably have immigrated to Europe and the US 50 years after the dismantlement.

But I'm also a believer in full humanity not in partial humanity.

If the full humanity of american blacks, hispanics and Indians was enough to justify the dismantlement of segregation in America, if the full humanity of the Bantu peoples of SA warranted the dismantlement of Apartheid, then, in my view, the full humanity of the arab people of Palestine justifies the peaceful dismantlement of the jewish racial dictatorship.

 

[Billo_Really]

Damn right they did. They were about to be attacked on 2 sides.

7 days. Damascus in the scope. Arab world loses again. The arab world and you want Israel dead.

The final solution that Hitler didnt get to finish huh.

Fucking grow up!

 

[Billo_Really]

No, not always, it isn't. Go check.

Wrong again.

You don't know shit about international law. Targets must be of military necessity. Shut off power and water to the Gaza Strip is not of military necessity. It is collective punishment of all 2.2 million Gazans and that is a war crime!

 

[eagle1462010]

Fucking grow up!

Im old enough to remember the BS the middle east has done. Served in that region too.

So if you are looking for sympathy you are in the wrong place.

 

[Billo_Really]

Explain occupation

You're a troll!

 

[Billo_Really]

You mean like the indiscriminate early morning sneak attack bombing of Israel that Hamas carried out a week ago. I don't recall Hamas making any warnings. Run along idiot. Your head is firmly implanted in your ass.

Fuck you! What Hamas did was a war crime.

 

[eagle1462010]

You don't know shit about international law. Targets must be of military necessity. Shut off power and water to the Gaza Strip is not of military necessity. It is collective punishment of all 2.2 million Gazans and that is a war crime!

Water is available South Gaza. Move to it.

 

[eagle1462010]

You're a troll!

You refuse to explain it. Why?

 

[Billo_Really]

It was actually a side road charge planted by Hamas,
as they threaten and execute Gazans seeking to escape for treason.

Let me understand your position, the grandiose accusations against Israel
with the made up round numbers - are meant as an excuse for the massacre?
Because you only tend to remember children when Hamas exploits their death for propaganda.

The cause of all the violence, is the occupation and illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza.

You have a fascist, apartheid government that is a pariah to the rest of the world. You do not value human life.

 

[Billo_Really]

Water is available South Gaza. Move to it.

Bullshit! You need pumps to operate and that takes electricity you inhuman POS!

 

[Billo_Really]

Fuck the UN.

Saying that is taking a shit on all the people who lost their lives during the Holocaust, because the UN was specifically created to prevent another one.

 

[eagle1462010]

Explain occupation? As far as blockade they inspect materials coming in trying to stop weapons coming in. Even with that over 5000 rockets got in. Imagine that?

 

[eagle1462010]

Bullshit! You need pumps to operate and that takes electricity you inhuman POS!

If Israel turned it back on it moves to Gaza via pumos Moonbat.

 

[eagle1462010]

Saying that is taking a shit on all the people who lost their lives during the Holocaust, because the UN was specifically created to prevent another one.

Tell that to Hamas biotch

 

[Billo_Really]

That is self-contradictory, every point is incorrect.
They do leave, about half a million left Gaza through Egypt in recent year.
Apparently they could, it's an industry most fishermen didn't use business for contraband.
If that's what you think defines an occupation, then you use the words not knowing what they are.

Islamist pseudo-intellectual gibberish appeals to the uneducated, the main source of illiteracy in the region.

Greece annually translates five times more books from English than the entire Arab world, and currently, 65 million Arab adults are illiterate.

You're a fucking liar! They can't leave. Israel effectively controls 80% of what goes in and out of Gaza. That satisfys the definition of an occupation.

I hope you enjoy your evil, apartheid country?

 

[Billo_Really]

Okay, let's work with this. Do you agree that Israel (like all other countries) has a right to control its own borders and is neither obligated to permit entry to foreign nationals nor to provide goods to another sovereign nation? Therefore, "end the occupation" comes down to permitting Gaza control of its own territorial waters and air space. Would you agree?

Yes.

 

[mudwhistle]

Saying that is taking a shit on all the people who lost their lives during the Holocaust, because the UN was specifically created to prevent another one.

How Ironic.....now they're trying to create another one as we speak.

 

[eagle1462010]

You're a fucking liar! They can't leave. Israel effectively controls 80% of what goes in and out of Gaza. That satisfys the definition of an occupation.

I hope you enjoy your evil, apartheid country?

So how are all those Rockets getting in then?? Hmmm?