Crucifixion: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

[the_human_being]

Strange that it was fully foretold in the Old Testament concerning the death and resurrection of Christ:

Christ's Death and Resurrection In the Old Testament - eNews for April 19, 2011

Not strange at all. Of course Paul told the Greeks 40 years after the fact that all this miraculous stuff that was foretold came true. What's miraculous is that they believed him.

That's why Christ chose the Gentiles to receive the Gospel. The Jews would not. After the Jews killed Stephen, the Lord turned to the Gentiles.

 

[BreezeWood]

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“Cross and death, and his resurrection…”

there is no evidence for why Jesus was even crucified, the answer to that would lead to why there may have been a resurrection which is implied as a proof to the jews they were indeed a god that Jesus most likely never claimed and had their been a resurrection the jewish religion would have perished - proving again the bible is a political document without merit.

.

I do not understand your comment "there is no evidence for why Jesus was even
crucified"-------You know of NO REASON that the Romans would want to crucify
Jesus?

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I do not understand your comment "there is no evidence for why Jesus was even
crucified"-------You know of NO REASON that the Romans would want to crucify
Jesus?

if you know then tell us, if it were not for the jews who sought it and if Jesus returned to life why would there be judaism - if Jesus did not claim a religious privilege the reason for jewish disdain why was he crucified ...

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[yiostheoy]

It has puzzled Christ-worshippers why the Quran in very strong words says that Jesus (p) was not crucified:

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.” – Quran 157-158 (Pickthall Translation)​

Most Christians have regarded this ayah to be contrary and in conflict with what their version of the New Testament states. Their belief in the crucifixion is the cornerstone of their faith.

Ignatius (35 – 107) was the bishop of Antioch. In the year 107 (or 108) he was arrested by the Romans and subsequently taken away to Rome. In between his incarceration and his death in around 107 (or 108), Ignatius wrote a series of letters in which he attacked other Christian groups as a result of them holding on to beliefs which were contrary to his own.
One letter was the following:

2I urge you, do not do things in cliques, but act as Christ’s disciples. When I heard some people saying, “IF I DON’T FIND IT IN THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, I DON’T BELIEVE IT IN THE GOSPEL,” I answered them, “But it is written there.” They retorted, “That’s just the question.”254 To my mind it is Jesus Christ who is the original documents. The inviolable archives are his CROSS AND DEATH AND HIS RESURRECTION AND THE FAITH THAT CAME BY HIM. It is by these things and through your prayers that I want to be justified. (Early Christian Fathers [Grand Rapids, MI: Christian Classics Ethereal Library] by Richardson, Cyril C. (1909-1976), page 96)​

This group is arguing that if what Ignatius believes in is not found in the “original documents”, they will not believe the gospel which Ignatius basis his faith on.

Few facts here:

1. Ignatius here is arguing against some of his own Christian brothers.
2. This Christian group accuses Ignatius of believing and following a corrupted text to base his beliefs on.
3. Ignatius unable to refute or show evidence that his gospel is the authentic version, he swivels away and states that Jesus is the “original documents”.
4. This group was arguing that Jesus’s crucifixion is not mentioned in their original document(s) which they had in their possession.
5. As shown the scholars like Zahn, Smith and others in agreement that the group accused Ignatius of following and believing in a tampered, and falsified gospel.

Now some may ask, what happened to this group? If this is true, that there were early Christian group(s) which believed that Jesus was not crucified, what happened to them? The simple answer to this is, most probably as it usually occurred, they were killed off. Any group which went against the dominant group were put away. When a certain group went against another which attacked their beliefs, they were killed off in ancient times. This happened a lot in the early history of Christianity.

Crucifixion or Crucifiction: What Did 1st Century Christians Believe?

Your conclusion seems to be "this happened a lot in the early history of Christianity".

There were many heresies, correct.

Regarding historical sources for that timeframe there are not many -- Josephus Flavius and also Eusebius.

 

[yiostheoy]

if Jesus returned to life why would there be judaism - if Jesus did not claim a religious privilege the reason for jewish disdain why was he crucified ...

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It is rather difficult to survive bleeding for 6 hours while nailed to a cross facing the south in the midday heat and then having a spear shoved into your liver. Just saying ... .

 

[yiostheoy]

Strange that it was fully foretold in the Old Testament concerning the death and resurrection of Christ:

Christ's Death and Resurrection In the Old Testament - eNews for April 19, 2011

Not strange at all. Of course Paul told the Greeks 40 years after the fact that all this miraculous stuff that was foretold came true. What's miraculous is that they believed him.

30 years not 40 years.

33 A.D. to 63 A.D. Paul did not live beyond 63 A.D.

 

[sealybobo]

Strange that it was fully foretold in the Old Testament concerning the death and resurrection of Christ:

Christ's Death and Resurrection In the Old Testament - eNews for April 19, 2011

Not strange at all. Of course Paul told the Greeks 40 years after the fact that all this miraculous stuff that was foretold came true. What's miraculous is that they believed him.

30 years not 40 years.

33 A.D. to 63 A.D. Paul did not live beyond 63 A.D.

And I've heard 50. Point is he told the stories to people who were hearing it for the first time. This is where Christianity started. It didn't start from the 5000 that feasted with Jesus.

It is obvious Paul invented a new religion for the gentiles. Used the old testament prophecy.

 

[BreezeWood]

if Jesus returned to life why would there be judaism - if Jesus did not claim a religious privilege the reason for jewish disdain why was he crucified ...

.

It is rather difficult to survive bleeding for 6 hours while nailed to a cross facing the south in the midday heat and then having a spear shoved into your liver. Just saying ... .

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It is rather difficult to survive bleeding for 6 hours while nailed to a cross facing the south in the midday heat and then having a spear shoved into your liver. Just saying ... .

that's clever ...


the spoken religion has a less fanciful final act for Jesus -

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani - .'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?


with or without the southern exposure ...

.

 

[Meriweather]

So what exactly was this group in disagreement with in this instance? Few lines down Ignatius tells us the reason and this is Jesus’s,

“Cross and death, and his resurrection…”

This was the debate. The point of contention here is the reality of Jesus’s crucifixion and resurrection not being mentioned in their original, and authentic document(s).

I do not question that some of what was written in those days made no reference to the crucifixion. Two early historians did. The first is the Jewish historian, Josephus, but scholars consider his account somewhat muddied by the fact that a later editor seems to have added a few qualifiers (i.e., Jesus being the Messiah, etc.) They tend to agree that Josephus did mention Jesus' crucifixion, pretty much stopped with that. The Roman historian, Tacitus, also noted the crucifixion of Jesus under Pontius Pilate. Early Christian accounts state it plainly, along with the heresies, primarily of the Docetics, who veer from it based on their belief that Jesus, as God, could not have suffered and be put to death.[/QUOTE]