Cuba -- the times they are a-changin'

Doug1943

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Jan 3, 2016
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I'm no fan of President Obama, but his recognition of the Castro dictatorship in Cuba was the best foreign policy move he has made. If Congress will only vote to drop that stupid embargo, things will begin to change fast in Cuba.

I had a three-week vacation there in November, traveling around the island by bus and staying in private homes. I talked to as many people as I could (not many, with my very limited tourist Spanish, but some people speak English). It was a small, non-random sample I talked to, but I've been doing a lot of reading about Cuba since then, and I think it's pretty clear that not only doesn't the economic system not work, everyone knows it doesn't work. The atmosphere reminded me of the Soviet Union in the late 80s.

Of course, in a police state it's hard to know what people really think, unless they know you well enough to trust you. But I would say the attitude of the people I talked to, towards the Communist government, was more one of exasperation, and perhaps resignation, rather than burning anger.

But I doubt very much that the government will carry on as it has been. The end of the embargo will bring a definite economic boost, but it's not like socialism-plus-trade-with-a-big-country will work, but plain old socialism won't. Socialism doesn't work, period. (Anyway, Cuba has had a lot of trade with the rest of the world.)

Anyway, I believe change will come in Cuba. The American embargo, if it's lifted, will no longer be a fit-all excuse for the regime's economic failures. And intelligent Cubans, including regime economists, know what's wrong: no market. So if there is no soap to buy in Santiago, no one is allowed to make and sell some, or import some, or bring some from where it's in surplus. You go to jail if you try to do things like that.

And here's were our friends on the Left ought to get involved: if the debate really opens up in Cuba about the future of the economy, the question naturally arises: what should be done with all the factories, etc that the government owns? Sell them to the highest bidder? Assign them as private property to regime cronies (the Russian solution)? Turn them over to their workers to run as a co operative?

People who don't like capitalism have a chance to propose their alternatives.

How to do this? Easy -- via the internet. At the moment, Cubans have limited access to it, because there are few hotspots and the cost of the satellite link is high (a week's wages for an hour's access). But more and more Cubans are getting access -- a couple of reports from Al Jazeer give details, here and here .

More importantly, there is a remarkable on-line 'newspaper', available in English and Spanish, The Havana Times, which is written by Cubans living in Cuba (although articles are commented on by people from everywhere). It's amazing, what they get away with printing.

I would urge Americans to go there before everything changes forever. You're allowed to now, and if you stay in private homes (the 'casas particulares'), eat where the locals do, travel by bus, you can have a great holiday for less than $50 a day. People are generally friendly and helpful, the violent crime rate is very low, and it's a really interesting place. I didn't encounter any anti-Americanism -- in fact, many taxis and buses were flying little American flags!

Go see it for yourself!
 
I'm inclined to agree but with certain stipulations. First of all Cuba must surrender all American fugitives from justice including Cop killer Joanne Chesimard.
 
With all due respect WTF were you doi g vacatio ing in a Communist country? There is NO appropriate reason for an American citizen to be in a Communist nation unless they're carrying a rifle for the US Military.

Cuba is a Communust nation. We should not have ANYTHING to do with them until they overthrow the Communist Government.
 
I was surprised to see advertisement for Cuba vacations online on FB.

I suggest all my liberal friends buy a one way ticket and stay there.
 
With all due respect WTF were you doi g vacatio ing in a Communist country? There is NO appropriate reason for an American citizen to be in a Communist nation unless they're carrying a rifle for the US Military.

Cuba is a Communust nation. We should not have ANYTHING to do with them until they overthrow the Communist Government.
With all due respect WTF were you doi g vacatio ing in a Communist country? There is NO appropriate reason for an American citizen to be in a Communist nation unless they're carrying a rifle for the US Military.

Cuba is a Communust nation. We should not have ANYTHING to do with them until they overthrow the Communist Government.
Really? how much stuff do you own that came from commie China?
 
Great food, great beaches, good looking women and music that`s 100X better than most of the crap americans listen to. Why are we denied our freedom to travel to where we want? I was in Jamaica in the 70`s when it was ruled by socialists and the place sucked. I went back in 2005 when the country was ruled by capitalists and it still sucked but unlike the 70`s, now the music sucks too.
 
Times are changing....for the worse since obama's latest "look at me!" Foreign policy fuckup.
 
I'm absolutely for getting the cop-killers back. I propose we trade them for the terrorists in Miami, starting with that piece of human garbage who put a bomb on a civilian airliner and murdered 73 people. Send him back to Cuba so he can get a fair trial and be shot.

I assume Anathema is a Lefty parodying his idea of a conservative, but the parody is so crude -- another Liberal Fail. However, let's play along. How did Communism collapse in Russia? By US military invasion? No. It collapsed when it became obvious to everyone there that the system did not work. And by the way, I played a tiny tiny tiny microscopic role in that, because I lived there for a few months in 1985 (my then-wife was a Fulbright Exchange Scholar), and took my BBC Micro plus a small monitor: I gave talks on микрокомпьютеры и образование ("Microcomputers in Education") in Kharkov, Akademgorodok, and Tallinn. My Soviet Computer Science colleagues were so envious! "How much did it cost?" they wanted to know. "Pretty expensive," I would reply, "about a month's wages." (I didn't have to say: you see, comrades, how much better a free market is? It was obvious. Not only could the system not produce its own micros, they couldn't even make a pair of blue jeans.)

And how did socialism, if not yet the rule of the Communist Party, die in China? I grew up with the idea that the 'Red Chinese' were Satan's spawn, and the idea of recognizing them or admitting them to the UN was treason. Then the amoral but intelligent Richard Nixon, who had been a ferocious anti-Communist, went to China, we recognized it, Mao died, and a few months later Deng Xiaoping told the peasants they could grow what they liked and sell it for what they liked, and ... 400 million people were lifted out of poverty in ten years and China has never looked back. (Maybe we should have kept it isolated and socialist and poor and backward, but what's done is done.) If you want to see thriving capitalism, go to China (despite recent setbacks). Young Chinese people travel around the world today, see how democracies work, go home and .... well, let's wait.

And how about Vietnam? Same story: socialism doesn't work, the free market does, the Communist Party doesn't want to rule a backward country so they do the obvious. (Well, there is one wrinkle to that story -- Americans carrying rifles did try to stop Communism there. How'd that work out?)

And where is the last hold-out of real, true unreconstructed Communism? North Korea, where the regime stays isolated as a matter of self-preservation.

Flood Cuba with Yankee tourists, bring Cuban young people to America on scholarships and cultural exchanges ... and see how long totalitarianism in Cuba lasts.

Some people just don't have faith in freedom.
 
I'm no fan of President Obama, but his recognition of the Castro dictatorship in Cuba was the best foreign policy move he has made. If Congress will only vote to drop that stupid embargo, things will begin to change fast in Cuba.

I had a three-week vacation there in November, traveling around the island by bus and staying in private homes. I talked to as many people as I could (not many, with my very limited tourist Spanish, but some people speak English). It was a small, non-random sample I talked to, but I've been doing a lot of reading about Cuba since then, and I think it's pretty clear that not only doesn't the economic system not work, everyone knows it doesn't work. The atmosphere reminded me of the Soviet Union in the late 80s.

Of course, in a police state it's hard to know what people really think, unless they know you well enough to trust you. But I would say the attitude of the people I talked to, towards the Communist government, was more one of exasperation, and perhaps resignation, rather than burning anger.

But I doubt very much that the government will carry on as it has been. The end of the embargo will bring a definite economic boost, but it's not like socialism-plus-trade-with-a-big-country will work, but plain old socialism won't. Socialism doesn't work, period. (Anyway, Cuba has had a lot of trade with the rest of the world.)

Anyway, I believe change will come in Cuba. The American embargo, if it's lifted, will no longer be a fit-all excuse for the regime's economic failures. And intelligent Cubans, including regime economists, know what's wrong: no market. So if there is no soap to buy in Santiago, no one is allowed to make and sell some, or import some, or bring some from where it's in surplus. You go to jail if you try to do things like that.

And here's were our friends on the Left ought to get involved: if the debate really opens up in Cuba about the future of the economy, the question naturally arises: what should be done with all the factories, etc that the government owns? Sell them to the highest bidder? Assign them as private property to regime cronies (the Russian solution)? Turn them over to their workers to run as a co operative?

People who don't like capitalism have a chance to propose their alternatives.

How to do this? Easy -- via the internet. At the moment, Cubans have limited access to it, because there are few hotspots and the cost of the satellite link is high (a week's wages for an hour's access). But more and more Cubans are getting access -- a couple of reports from Al Jazeer give details, here and here .

More importantly, there is a remarkable on-line 'newspaper', available in English and Spanish, The Havana Times, which is written by Cubans living in Cuba (although articles are commented on by people from everywhere). It's amazing, what they get away with printing.

I would urge Americans to go there before everything changes forever. You're allowed to now, and if you stay in private homes (the 'casas particulares'), eat where the locals do, travel by bus, you can have a great holiday for less than $50 a day. People are generally friendly and helpful, the violent crime rate is very low, and it's a really interesting place. I didn't encounter any anti-Americanism -- in fact, many taxis and buses were flying little American flags!

Go see it for yourself!

I hate to burst your bubble but this is the biggest pile of male bovine excrement I've read on USMB in quite a while.

I daily read stories about what is going on in Cuba and, if anything, the government attacks on anyone who even hints and not fully supporting the Castros and their hand-picked gangsters is fined, thrown in jail, and otherwise destroyed.

If things are so good, why are people still fleeing the island and being persecuted?

Cuba has become what the Soviet Union was before its fall and is exporting it to other countries like Venezuela.

I strongly suggest you and others here check out Babalú Blog if you want to know the truth of what is going on in Cuba. :)
 
Really? how much stuff do you own that came from commie China?

Some. I won't deny that. I try to limit the amount of foreign content in my home as much as possible but it's extremely difficult to get rid of it all. It SHOULD be easier (since we shouldn't be i.porting crap), but it isn't. I'll pay more for a lower quality American product over a,foeign one if possible.
 
With all due respect WTF were you doi g vacatio ing in a Communist country? There is NO appropriate reason for an American citizen to be in a Communist nation unless they're carrying a rifle for the US Military.

Cuba is a Communust nation. We should not have ANYTHING to do with them until they overthrow the Communist Government.
With all due respect WTF were you doi g vacatio ing in a Communist country? There is NO appropriate reason for an American citizen to be in a Communist nation unless they're carrying a rifle for the US Military.

Cuba is a Communust nation. We should not have ANYTHING to do with them until they overthrow the Communist Government.
Really? how much stuff do you own that came from commie China?

A fair amount...and probably EVERYTHING he works with!
 
Really? how much stuff do you own that came from commie China?

Some. I won't deny that. I try to limit the amount of foreign content in my home as much as possible but it's extremely difficult to get rid of it all. It SHOULD be easier (since we shouldn't be i.porting crap), but it isn't. I'll pay more for a lower quality American product over a,foeign one if possible.

They why do you drive a car built in Mexico?
 
Cuba has never been communist
As to the OP, I find it hard to agree.
Suggesting giving socialist dictators economic benefits will change anything is naive IMO. Not to mention an oxymoron in itself. The dictator is the economy.
 
They why do you drive a car built in Mexico?

I don't. A percentage of Chevy HHRs were built in the US back at the time I bought mine. It cost me time and money, plus a road trip to Western Mass but I was able to find an American made one.

Pablum. Research indicates that ALL US-market HHRs (and I think all HHRs, period) were built at Ramos Arizpe Assembly in Ramos Arzipe, Mexico! (GM has built cars there since 1981.) Your VIN will start with a 3.
 
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Obama surrendered to the Castro's. He is rewarding them with US dollars for their bringing the world to the brink and for destabilizing the region.
The Cuban people will continue to be oppressed while the Castro regime gets richer thanks to the surrenderer-in-chief.
 
Obama surrendered to the Castro's. He is rewarding them with US dollars for their bringing the world to the brink and for destabilizing the region.
The Cuban people will continue to be oppressed while the Castro regime gets richer thanks to the surrenderer-in-chief.
The Castro brothers are 84 and 89yo. Obama will no longer the president in less than year. Times are changing.
Plan to sail from Key Biscayne to Cuba this summer.
 

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